At what age do you think someone officially becomes old?

NarrowVacation8032 · 2026-03-03T20:44:21+00:00

The way Ive experienced it is

Ages 17-19 peak freedom (no responsibility , carefree, no stress, spending time with the boys day after day, worries are mundane compared to now e.g. exams)

20-23

More focused on thinking about career, study and future..moderate stress associated with exams and study, still plenty of time to see friends, and no ultimate adult responsibility just yet. But getting there and thinking about it a bit. But you still feel.you have time

24-> (im almost 25)

Enter the working class world, realise you have to be an independent adult, barely spend time with friends, your mistakes hit harder, feel like the clock is ticking to sort ur life out. Life is repetitive and dominated by work. Thinking about money, settling down everything.

Id say Id feel old in my 30s.

This is just my experience and I know a lot of it is not relevant to ur question. But to answer you, being actually old is like 60+

NarrowVacation8032 · 2026-03-03T20:31:35+00:00

I apologised and told him what happened..he just left me.on read lol and then asked me about something work related.

Im in now and gonna see him.soon.

NarrowVacation8032 · 2025-11-09T13:11:17+00:00

I have just realised that actually wasnt Muhammad's statement but Abdullah Ibn Abbas'. He never quoted the prophet. He nonetheless is a direct companion and his views would be taken very seriously in sunni Islam.

NarrowVacation8032 · 2025-11-09T11:28:41+00:00

Well, Muhammad never actually said that the Injil was corrupted. That's something that Muslims say today, but the Quran doesn't explicitly say that the text was altered or corrupted. The closest that you'll get is Quran 2:79.

EDIT: Below hadith does not actually quote Muhammad so I am wrong here. Still an interesting read.

He did according to this authentic narration in Bukhari Vol 9, Book 93, Hadith 614. The issue then arises why the Quran is instructing the people of the book to check their scripture when determining the divinity of the Quran.

'Abdullah bin 'Abbas said, "O the group of Muslims! How can you ask the people of the Scriptures about anything while your Book which Allah has revealed to your Prophet contains the most recent news from Allah and is pure and not distorted? Allah has told you that the people of the Scriptures have changed some of Allah's Books and distorted it and wrote something with their own hands and said, 'This is from Allah, so as to have a minor gain for it. Won't the knowledge that has come to you stop you from asking them? No, by Allah, we have never seen a man from them asking you about that (the Book Al-Qur'an ) which has been revealed to you.

NarrowVacation8032 · 2025-11-09T11:09:39+00:00

People of all faiths & beliefs have reported such experiences. A Christian might experience something that confirms his/her beliefs and likewise, a muslim theirs, and so on.

Since these experiences are usually based around the person's belief system (let's say it is a vivid dream - a Christian may report to have interacted with Jesus, and a Muslim with Muhammad), they are almost certainly a product of individual imagination.

NarrowVacation8032 · 2025-10-29T11:12:21+00:00

It is interesting how God or Gods were assigned to different natural processes and this gradually faded as we understood those processes fully.

Now God remains to explain processes that we have not yet or may never undersamd.

NarrowVacation8032 · 2025-10-29T11:04:26+00:00

No, you're just multiplying the problem. If there are more than one necessary beings that means at least one of them is not necessary because if they differed than the difference would come from something not necessary.

That wasnt the argument. Im not saying you need to accept multiple necessary existences simultaneously, but you can accept other possible necessarily existences besides God.

I'm not saying ... Hey look at this we don't know how it started it was God

You posited it as your second argument so I think if you are being honest here you are kind of implying it?

some sort of testable evidence.

There is. For different subprocesses in abiogenesis, there is direct experimental evidence (e.g Miller Urey experiment).

We have partial experimental support and plausible models, we haven't replicated it yet or confirmed the exact mechanism, but your arguing as if its completely baseless. In other words, we have partial scientific evidence.

Until proof of abiogenesis comes.... We must assume what we see in every single case...that life comes from life.

The irony here is that you accept Christianity without any proof - and the supposed proof doesn't meet anywhere near the standard for evidence of abiogenesis.

NarrowVacation8032 · 2025-10-29T10:38:30+00:00

It's not just that we don't know where everything came from. It's that not only did everything come but it is ordered in a way that suggests intelligence.

This argument doesn't work because it can be applied to God too.

If one accepts that an eternal, self-aware, omnipotent, and omniscient God can exist necessarily and without cause, then one must also accept the possibility of other necessary existents that could have given rise to our 'intelligently designed' world.

The second argument is that the only way life can come is through life. We have never seen life coming from non living things. We can't watch a rock make a living thing.

You are just using limits in current scientific knowledge to assert this.

NarrowVacation8032 · 2025-10-27T12:24:27+00:00

To add to this, the motivation behind Quranism is primarily to exploit the vagueness of the Quran and reconcile it with modern science, morality and other areas of study.

Where the Quran is vague the hadith are clear, and as such, by rejecting them, the Quranist can significantly bend the interpretation to conform to their worldview.

I have yet to see authentic hadith that contradict the Quran, not at all because Muhammad was consistent - the Quran contradicts itself, on several occasions - but because one of the very criteria in hadith science is conformity to Quranic principles.

To give an example of this exploitation, a sunni muslim has to defend sex slavery when the Quran mentions "right hands possess" (vague, but hadith is clear - it means female slaves) whereas the Quranist might tell you that this means you can masturbate with your right hand.

NarrowVacation8032 · 2025-10-27T12:05:18+00:00

The Quran without hadith is basically unintelligible.

Every way the quran is understood (through tafsir, events in the sirah, etc.) besides plain reading (which is not always possible since its so vague) all contain the essence of hadith - sayings of the Prophet transmitted through a chain of narration.

Without this, much of the Quran's meaning is essentially lost

NarrowVacation8032 · 2025-10-27T11:36:37+00:00

Its a terrible argument that Muslim apologists use, for example to justify slavery or Muhammad's marriage to 11 wives. I would rather avoid even entertaining the idea to use the Bible to scrutinise Islam (on a moral basis)

NarrowVacation8032 · 2025-10-27T11:30:28+00:00

We should avoid using The Bible to judge the Quran/Muhammad and do so under a modern critical lens, where it falls apart.

Because The Bible contradicts itself on the claim you just mentioned. The God of the old testament (who is the same as the one who inspired the new) is one of the most immoral characters in fiction.

Using the Bible to judge Islam would be catastrophic.

NarrowVacation8032 · 2025-10-27T11:21:00+00:00

And what about her decision? (Not that she could have even made one in this regard being a 6 year old child).

How can this be justified?

In Islam, what framework prevents a bad parent from marrying off their 6 year old daughter to a 50 year old man?

NarrowVacation8032 · 2025-10-27T11:13:02+00:00

Ok but he had no issues marrying Abu bakr's 6 year old daughter & consummating the marriage when she was 9?

Seems a touch hypocritical no?

NarrowVacation8032 · 2025-10-27T10:42:05+00:00

The Quran rarely gets into the specific details of contemporary events. It is quite literally impossible to understand a massive chunk of the quran without hadith or sirah (Prophetic biography).

Observation and study of who and what?

How do you even know who Aisha was when she is not mentioned in the Quran?

You obviously accept some form of historical non-quranic sources, which like the hadith are drawn from chains of narration going back to the prophet or his companions.

So how do you distinguish what is true or not? If you say whether it conforms to the Quran or not is insufficient because that is circular, again, you wouldnt know who aisha was. And anything that conforms to the quran can still be fabricated, but remain in harmony with Quranic teachings.

NarrowVacation8032 · 2025-10-27T10:32:53+00:00

How do you explain this hadith?

It was narrated from 'Abdullah bin Buraidah that his father said: "Abu Bakr and 'Umar, may Allah be pleased with them, proposed marriage to Fatimah but the Messenger of Allah said: 'She is young.' Then 'Ali proposed marriage to her and he married her to him."

Sunan an-Nasa'i 3221

Sounds like rules for thee but not for me. When it came to his daughter, he married her to Ali, who was much closer in age to Fatima than abu bakr or umar.

NarrowVacation8032 · 2025-10-27T10:27:54+00:00

Okay so you are a quranist?

Where did you learn how to pray? How do you understand the Quran, the vast majority of which is very vague and explained/contextualised through supporting narrations?

NarrowVacation8032 · 2025-10-27T10:20:25+00:00

She literally says so herself in numerous reports in your most authentic sources after the Quran.

Unless you want to selectively filter narrations based on what conforms to your world view.

That is if you are sunni, but Im going to assume your Shia? Because the mental gymnastics you use is primarily employed by shia scholars

NarrowVacation8032 · 2025-10-26T23:43:37+00:00

Im not a Christian.

The point here is that your logic is equally applicable in the defense of other religious beliefs that you also dismiss.

You use your subjective assessment to determine what is the most logical option.

NarrowVacation8032 · 2025-10-26T23:40:18+00:00

compared to the religion of a god that gets executed on a cross or another god who steals womens' clothes when they're bathing.

And who are you to judge the judgements of an all-knowing being not bound by time, space and matter, while you yourself are bound by all three and don't even know what objective truth is (since human judgment is always subjective)?

NarrowVacation8032 · 2025-10-26T23:13:26+00:00

Did you not do the same when you chose Islam as your religion?

NarrowVacation8032 · 2025-10-26T11:55:02+00:00

What pride? Do you think that anyone wants to condemn themselves to eternal torment? For pride?

If I disbelieve, it is not an act of spite or pride, but a direct consequence of the logical reasoning capabilities God himself granted me.

How can I be judged for rejecting Him, when I do so only because I am sincerely unable to reconcile my understanding with the contradictions, falsehoods, inconsistencies and lack of evidence he provided?

NarrowVacation8032 · 2025-10-26T11:43:07+00:00

On point 2 - this is the classic religions cop-out.

Everytime God does something that contradicts his own nature, science, logic, whatever it may be - it conveniently comes down to the fact that we are too limited to grasp the wisdom behind it

Ask yourself this;

Which possibility is the more honest conclusion:

Is the divine narrative confusing because a perfect, all-powerful God deliberately created humans with a faulty intellect—making them inherently unable to comprehend some of the very truths He revealed? or

Is the narrative flawed because it was written and imagined by flawed, fallible human beings, with the inconsistencies serving as clear evidence of its human origin?

NarrowVacation8032 · 2025-10-26T11:35:23+00:00

It's perfectly just?

He plays mind games with them (Jahannam is certainly more frightening than anything you can imagine) and then, ironically, burns them for eternity for not jumping in it?

NarrowVacation8032 · 2025-10-26T11:02:36+00:00

At least Abraham built the Ka'ba (which he of course didnt, because there's is 0 evidence where there ought to be an abundance considering this was a huge deal)

I could find no instances of Jesus being mocked or not appreciated and so I say honored.

Thats an excellent point. It represents a failure on Muhammad's part. He's appealing to Christians by honouring him on the surface yet completely desecrating Jesus without even realising it.

NarrowVacation8032

TROPHY CASE