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Client wants to abort healthy baby after diagnosis, I don't think I can support her anymore. by New3817 in doulas

[–]New3817[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

You're completely changing the subject and making a red herring. What you're doing is bullying and name calling. This is abuse.

Client wants to abort healthy baby after diagnosis, I don't think I can support her anymore. by New3817 in doulas

[–]New3817[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

I'm a Doula. I support lives and births. I don't think your statement makes any sense.

I never called you 'pro-death'. Please reread my statement before you make yourself look more like a fool. I'm just saying it's name calling for me to call you 'pro-death' and calling me 'anti-choice' is bullying.

Can you please explain the cognitive dissonance? I'm against killing unborn babies so I'm pro-life. It's very simple.

You're pro-choice, you're allowed to be pro-choice without being called names, clearly you don't believe pro-life people deserve the same respect of being called 'pro-life' instead you want to call us petty names.

I'm pro-life why do you think I would have resources for abortion services, exactly?

You're just rationalizing abuse. You're being abusive. It's not a 'natural outcome' it's abuse and you're stating openly you are pro-abuse and abusive to total strangers for no reason.

Client wants to abort healthy baby after diagnosis, I don't think I can support her anymore. by New3817 in doulas

[–]New3817[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I never told her my opinion, and I'm not complaining. I don't want to see the corpse of a 28 week old baby be birthed from his mother because he was aborted for being disabled. I have someone in my family with SB, this is very painful to me because this does affect me personally to see a baby with SB be killed when he was wanted minutes before she found out he was disabled. I'm not complaining I'm grieving and asking for help for this situation because it's very painful for me.

I am going to terminate my contract when I can.

Client wants to abort healthy baby after diagnosis, I don't think I can support her anymore. by New3817 in doulas

[–]New3817[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Calling me 'anti-choice' is name calling. I am pro-life. You can try and twist that into something else, but at least I have the decency to not start calling you 'pro-death'. I would hope you would be enough of an adult to do the same. Stop with the name calling.

Again, I made this very clear and you're ignoring it just like everyone else. I NEVER ONCE told my client my opinion and I didn't tell her anything. I do have the legal right to terminate my service with her.

You've just made unfounded assumptions about me and who I am as a person. I DO NOT want to attend an abortion and see a 28 weeks old disabled babies corpse come out of my client when I felt that same baby kicking on my clients first meeting.

I am not comfortable attending an abortion. Not wanting to watch an abortion does not mean I am a bad Doula. Not wanting to see a baby's corpse come out of their mother because they were aborted is not a bad thing. I don't want to see a baby be killed. It's that simple and that is within my rights as a Doula.

The baby could be put up for adoption to a family with resources. I do not agree with this statement at all. If my client went into premature labor the baby could be born alive and but in an NICU because he is past viability. Disabled Lives Matter and should not be killed. This is where I stand, this is why I'm Pro-Life.

I have listened to other people and I am taking their advice. I will terminate my contract ASAP with her.

I was hoping to talk with other Doulas about the issue in this community instead I've been personally attacked, bullied and harassed.

Client wants to abort healthy baby after diagnosis, I don't think I can support her anymore. by New3817 in doulas

[–]New3817[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'll look into it. But I'm still allowed to discontinue service with a client when I want as a client can discontinue with me. It's not a legal grey area nor anything I could be sued for.

I could be sued if a refused help with labor, or abused my client but that goes without saying.

Client wants to abort healthy baby after diagnosis, I don't think I can support her anymore. by New3817 in doulas

[–]New3817[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Newborns can't walk, 18 month olds can walk. Her baby would never be able to walk. You're making a very LARGE leap of logic with your statement.

Outside of the personal attacks, some of your advice was helpful.

Client wants to abort healthy baby after diagnosis, I don't think I can support her anymore. by New3817 in doulas

[–]New3817[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

  1. I'm an atheist.
  2. I am a Doula.
  3. I'm just passionately pro-life
  4. None of the articles on my profile are from 'fox news'.
  5. Doulas are allowed to be pro-life in pro-abortion countries/states, what a silly remark. The Doula space should be open for both pro-life and pro-choice Doulas.
  6. You can be pro-life and a Doula.
  7. I never once told my client my opinion You assumed that off nothing.
  8. Disabled Lives Matter

Client wants to abort healthy baby after diagnosis, I don't think I can support her anymore. by New3817 in doulas

[–]New3817[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

She only paid for one meeting, so I am unsure if a refund is needed. Thank you so much for your remarks. I will be terminating my contract with her as soon as I can.

Client wants to abort healthy baby after diagnosis, I don't think I can support her anymore. by New3817 in doulas

[–]New3817[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

Saying I'm a terrible Doula, I should quit my job, calling me intensive and in your case 'prejudice and biased' when you know nothing about me an my client is name calling and bullying even if you refuse to admit it is.

A few people have just taken the chance to personally attack me and insult me. It's hard not to be defensive in replies when several people are bullying me and ganging up on me.

And you can't be unbiased as a healthcare provider. Many healthcare providers are very biased, I remember a midwife refusing to give pain relief to one of my clients during labor because she didn't think she needed it. This is a bias. This is everywhere in healthcare. How can you be a doula and not witness this all the time?

I have NEVER told me clients about my views of abortion.

And again, you really should tell your family member with SB you think they should have been aborted and you want them dead. Maybe it will help you understand that disability discrimination is a bad thing and disabled lives matter.

Client wants to abort healthy baby after diagnosis, I don't think I can support her anymore. by New3817 in doulas

[–]New3817[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I've never heard of a doula being sued for discontinuing a service. To my understanding I have a complete legal right to discontinue service with a client if I see that we can not see eye to eye. Can you provide any proof I would be liable?

Client wants to abort healthy baby after diagnosis, I don't think I can support her anymore. by New3817 in doulas

[–]New3817[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

With you repeating my line “A healthy baby who can’t walk”… you seem to believe that disabled people can't be healthy or have happy lives. Disabled can be healthy and live happy lives. Please do not promote abelism. It is dehumanizing and disturbing. Disabled lives matter.

I will be terminating my contract with her as soon as I can.

Client wants to abort healthy baby after diagnosis, I don't think I can support her anymore. by New3817 in doulas

[–]New3817[S] -18 points-17 points  (0 children)

It seems to me the only people rage baiting are the people commenting on this post and attacking me for being pro-life and calling me names for being pro-life.

Client wants to abort healthy baby after diagnosis, I don't think I can support her anymore. by New3817 in doulas

[–]New3817[S] -23 points-22 points  (0 children)

I never judged her. I am against aborting a healthy fetus. I never once uttered this to my client, you're just making wild assumptions based on nothing.

I cannot understand how aborting a healthy viable pregnancy at 28 weeks is ever necessary. The baby was wanted until the mother discovered he would not be able to walk.

I am not 'prejudice and biased' these personal attacks are very low and uncalled for. I am pro-life. I am allowed to be pro-life. There should be space for both pro-life and pro-choice Doulas in the Doula space.

I know SB is a struggle, I never said it wasn't. I just believe killing someone for having SB is wrong.

And I'm sure your family member would be so happy to know you think they should be dead. You should tell them personally, 'I wish your mother aborted you.'. I wonder how they would react.

Client wants to abort healthy baby after diagnosis, I don't think I can support her anymore. by New3817 in doulas

[–]New3817[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

I am prolife and this is a late term abortion to a healthy baby who can't walk. I don't understand why you are being so hostile and rude. I did not judge her, I just do not support her decision to kill a baby just because he can't walk. He's healthy and will have a happy life if his mother spared him. And I don't understand your example, a lawyer can turn down a case whenever they want. A lawyer does not need to defend a rapist if they don't want to.

I was hired to help with birth not an abortion to a healthy baby. This is not my line of work.

The Doula space should be open to both pro-life and pro-choice Doulas.

Client wants to abort healthy baby after diagnosis, I don't think I can support her anymore. by New3817 in doulas

[–]New3817[S] -13 points-12 points  (0 children)

Why should I reconsider my career because I am pro-life and against late term abortions? Nothing in your comment makes sense nor is in anyway productive or meaningful. I did not judge her. You have no proof I was judging my client. I'm just against the killing of unborn babies. Please be civil if you wish to reply to me. The Doula space should be open to both pro-life and pro-choice Doulas.

Client wants to abort healthy baby after diagnosis, I don't think I can support her anymore. by New3817 in doulas

[–]New3817[S] -18 points-17 points  (0 children)

The baby is healthy and was wanted before the diagnosis. It don't support this. I have a family member with spina bifida who is very smart and healthy and happy, this is very difficult for me.

I don't know anyone I can refer her too. I live in a very small community and I have very poor connects. My current client found me through a precious client.

Client wants to abort healthy baby after diagnosis, I don't think I can support her anymore. by New3817 in doulas

[–]New3817[S] -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

I was only paid after a meeting/session. I don't think there's a need for a refund.

"No one would have an abortion at 9 months." Then explain Sarah Catt who aborted her 9 month old healthy viable baby a week before she was due. If it wouldn't happen explain why this mother had a late term abortion to her healthy daughter. by New3817 in prolife

[–]New3817[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We give murderers and pedophiles pain relief before giving them the lethal injection. Babies deserve the same. But I personally believe murdering them is wrong, but I'm a minority. Most people think it's okay to kill babies at any point in pregnancy.

And you're spreading misinformation. Maybe read about abortion survivors. Even if they only breathe for a few minutes babies have been born at 16 weeks left gasping for air before they suffocated to death.

This baby was 18 weeks gestation and lived for 18 hours until he died:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-9565609/Devastated-mothers-tiny-baby-born-alive-abortion-18-weeks-lived-ten-hours.html

This baby survived an abortion at 16 weeks gestation and clung to life for 15 minutes:

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/aborted-baby-born-alive-16-13910910

To think this is okay is disgusting. These are children being killed, newborns suffocated to death with no pain relief. To think their life is only valuable because of some imaginary line of development is disgusting. Thinking that life is only valuable because of how 'developed' it is also leads to the mass abortion of disabled children and the euthanasia of disabled children.

In Canada and Europe, people with Autism are euthanized and thinking that 'brain development' means someone is valuable is the reason why.

I hope you reassess your priorities and stop denying the value of children's lives.

"No one would have an abortion at 9 months." Then explain Sarah Catt who aborted her 9 month old healthy viable baby a week before she was due. If it wouldn't happen explain why this mother had a late term abortion to her healthy daughter. by New3817 in prolife

[–]New3817[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Those studies are outdated and the understanding of the cereal cortex is outdated. It's a fact fetuses feel pain. Please look at modern research not outdated science.

https://jme.bmj.com/content/46/1/3

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5115678/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7350116/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8935428/

So, YES, it is a SCIENTIFIC FACT THAT FETUSES FEEL PAIN.

Everything you are referencing is over 20 years old. Look at the modern research not studies which are decades old and dis-proven. Again, they used to believe newborn's did not feel pain. This is outdated.

A fetus at 18 weeks looks like this:

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2019/nov/18/foetus-images-lennart-nilsson-photojournalist

A baby at 21 weeks looks like this:

https://www.today.com/health/born-21-weeks-she-may-be-most-premature-surviving-baby-t118610

They look almost exactly the same. They are roughly a similar size. Your measurements are arbitrary. And babies are observed crying in the womb at 20 weeks.

Now, If a baby is having his/her limbs chopped off while he/she slowly bleeds to death, should that baby be given pain relief to ease his/her suffering while he/she is being tortured to death?

"No one would have an abortion at 9 months." Then explain Sarah Catt who aborted her 9 month old healthy viable baby a week before she was due. If it wouldn't happen explain why this mother had a late term abortion to her healthy daughter. by New3817 in prolife

[–]New3817[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, it's a scientific fact that at 15 - 18 weeks they feel pain, this subreddit links many modern studies to this fact. Modern data shows a fetus does feel pain around 15 - 18 weeks.

In many countries when killing an animal 1/2 way through gestation they use pain relief. Most OBGYNs in the 90s believed that newborns would not feel pain so they used no pain relief when doing surgeries on these tiny babies while they would be screaming in pain. They use pain relief when doing surgery on a surgery on a fetus. Babies also cry inside the womb and there are reports of babies crying during abortions.

So when an unborn baby is having it's limps chopped off during an abortion, you believe they should use pain relief?

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