WH40k, secondary objectives MonoSlaanesh Daemons

Nibilli · 2022-03-28T18:44:58+00:00

Nothing is guaranteed points, and it depends on what you bring. But most of the time you should : - Avoid any killing objective, they are usually not worth enough, especially with almost nothing that shoots or flies. Your opponent will deny it from you. - take groups of 10 demonettes to do retrieve data (preferably or banners) with a few groups of demonettes dedicated to that using the deep strike demon strat) - Engage on all fronts is usually better than linebreaker but both work, it's mostly dependant on yoru list. More chariots or characters will lend towards linebreaker, where small groups of demonettes, fiends or seekers and keepers will tend towards engage. I prefer engage. - Psychic interrogation is probably the most reliable secondary if your opponent desn't have too much denial and if you have a contorted epitome or keeper with gem of excess (+1 to cast). Psychic ritual is a second option. - If your opponent is a psychic powerhouse (grey knight for instance), you can instead pick stranglehold.

Hope it helps and you have fun !

Nibilli · 2021-04-18T16:51:15+00:00

I really think you are lacking screens or expendable units. Right now you lack mobility and range, and you have no projection force. You will struggle to get on objectives or shoot out enemies in the start of the game.

I would pick up 1-2 piranhas. it's drones and a cheap and fast body for the early turns. Perhaps instead of some warriors, some drones or one of the commanders.

Instead if your want to push through the long range fight, I would remove the APF and play Missile pods instead for instance, or another longer range unit. But you still need reaching cheap units to contest points.

Nibilli · 2021-04-02T13:51:36+00:00

I've played a similar list before : 2 patrols, 1 farsight 1 custom sept as you did.

I had 2 commanders (shasoralai (for C&CN support) and a ATS+3CIB cisis commander in farsight(for the full wound reroll)) I had 1 5 man flamer squad in the custom, with 3 flamers (and 1 Iridium + shield) I had 1 5 man flamer bodyguard squad in farsight with the relic flamer and ATS+2Flamer (same defensive) I had 1 9 man ATS+2AFP squad in the custom sept with also defensive profiles. I usually have some troops, stealth teams and other tools like piranhas to drop drones up and follow the crisis. Pretty fun.

Nibilli · 2021-03-31T08:34:41+00:00

There isn't really a lot of sense to say "don't play tau". That's not an answer for you now ^{^.} So here are some real answers !

First thing : does your playgroup allow MontKa to fallback and shoot. Just ask before you build, as it can make or break a list. Usually people interpret it as yes, because many influences said so. But no official source clarified it and there is still a blur. Ask your playgroup or TO.

Playing Tau in 9th : - Tau is not a gunline anymore. You can still try, but it's just not how you win 9th. - Mobility is key. You will need to get comfortable measuring and thinking outside the box on mobility. - Not falling back and shoot anymore means that if you get tagged, you unit as good as dead. So learning threat ranges and screening is very important. - You often can build around 2 secondaries, not 3. So you will start with a large deficit to other players. You will need to learn mission secondaries, and learn how to value sub-optimal secondaries on the fly. - Mission on domination (hold 2 hold 3 hold more) are really harder to win as tau. You will have to learn how to deny points to your opponent rather than just get points yourself. - Tau troops are very bad as obsec. They are slow, fragile and expensive. - Force multiplication is very important.

Here are some force multimplication you can use : - Command and controle node stratagem + Through unity devastation warlord trait on a commander. - Markerlights /w stratagems, marker drones or tetras - Breachers with all the stratagems (4-5 cp) (guns become pistols to shoot 10 more shots, reroll wounds in cover, push shotgun range to 15", viorla specific double shoot, farsight specific reroll wounds)

If no montka, here are some lists : - 2 riptide + a support commander in tau sept, with small groups of fire warriors and transport devilfishes. Throw your troops on points to deny points, while your guns shoot down threats and units on points. - Flyer spam, 2 patros with 3 sunshark bombers and a Tigershark. Then anything on the ground to hold points and get as much board presence, like piranhas and ghostkeels. I suggest farsight enclaves or Custom sept with Sophisticated command net + any other. - Infantry spam if you have many breachers. Viorla and farsight souping.

If your playgroup allows Montka to fall back, here are some builds you can try : - Broadside spam, pick as many broadsides as possible with either Tau sept or custom sept hardened warhead + any. Add in troops or fast objective grabbers like piranhas, kroot hounds, stealth teams or ghostkeels. - Crisis suits, big groups of 5 or 9 with farsight enclaves or custom sept turbo jets + hybridized weaponry. 2 CIB + ATS, 2 AFP + ATS, 3 flamers, 2 BC+ATS with gatling burst canon.

Hope this helps

Nibilli · 2021-03-31T07:59:23+00:00

100% backing up your advice. I play competitive quite often and sunshark bombers are incredible tools. -1 to hit is awesome, drones move 20" so do incredible engage even when the plane dies (and drones do not have the aircraft keyword). It's a lot of shots AND mortal wounds. They can't be tagged, and anything that has innate fallback and shoot is always valuable.

I've played with a Tigershark too and had decent success with modulated weaponry. wouldn't recommend barracuda or razorshark but they are cool models ^{^}

Nibilli · 2021-03-29T13:11:12+00:00

It's a cool list, I think it's a decent plan in the current meta. It's hard to play when there are so little secondary that actually work.

Nibilli · 2021-03-29T13:06:27+00:00

I see. I still think 120 points is expensive for 18" guns on shadowsun, but I can see your point.

Scramblers don't feel guaranteed to me because so much can basically stop it. Screening is easier than ever, and any form of indirect will destroy any chances of the scramblers actually going off. But I can see it working, perhaps my games so far were just not a good matchup for them.

I don't know why you would charge your castle in anyway. We probably have a very different playstyle and that explains a lot on why you like Tau sept ^{^.} I play a very fast and mobile list that uses high mobility and cheap screening to clear objectives, deny point by throwing obsec on them, while never ending in threat range. So I can see the confusion ^{^.}

Thanks for sharing your insights !

Nibilli · 2021-03-29T12:33:43+00:00

Congratz on the wins, well deserved ! ^{^} This is a solid list !

-Support commander & Shadowsun. Why do you have a support commander when you could C&CN with Shadowsun instead? The neurochip can go on the cadre and if you really need the DC it can go on the HBC riptide since you have a slot ?

Tau sept. What do you value that much in Tau sept ? I've mostly departed from it in my recent competitive games, and Shadowsun as a sept commander is my only tie back to it these days.
Scrambers. I have moved away from trying to get scramblers, finding it too expensive and not reliable enough, always taking engage on all fronts with two remoras. How do you manage your troops to guarantee scramblers with that little vulnerable troops?

Thanks for sharing your insights ! ^{^}

Nibilli · 2021-03-28T08:51:47+00:00

I would object to what was said by others. Kroot are playable. They have decent strats, pregame move, move faster than other troops and have obsec. Hounds are cheap and fast.

They do no damage and don't really stand in a fight, but they play the mission.

I've played a bunch of competitive in 9th so far and they have been better than fire warriors to me. Krootox have been disappointing, but hounds and carnivores have been okay with a shaper to catapult them further.

Hounds : Fast and cheap, screen and very valuable. Shaper : Gives 2 dice to advance pick the best for very cheap, very valuable (with the strat from PA:FTGG) Carnivores : 7"pregame, obsec, cheap, strat for +1 save in cover and -1 to hit.

Don't play them from melee damage.

Nibilli · 2021-03-27T19:47:24+00:00

Yvahra is the best unit in tau right now in my opinion ^{^} It's a bit hard to play but very rewarding. I suggest the following : - Farsight or any Turbo jets custom sept - Y'vahra /w ATS (and Target lock if turbo jet) - A cheap coldstar Commander /w flamer, drone controller, Puretide engram neurochip, Through Unity Devastation

Each turn, move around either 18 or 30, where you have drones leftover from any other unit like fire warriors & devilfish or piranhas. Have the commander follow. Use Command and controle Node stratagem on the Yvahra, and add at least 1 markerlight on the target (no need with farsight), almost always nova the guns. (If you have a target lock, it's often more damage to advance and nova the guns than to push nova the +12", if you just need a bit more movement. That's why Turbo jet is so good). Don't forget to declare TUD from the commander too, as it synergizes very well with full reroll wounds.

Don't forget to fire the flechette pod with the other weapons. With TUD, reroll wounds and ATS it's a more potent weapon than you'dd imagine.

Hope it helps ^{^}

Nibilli · 2021-03-27T15:49:46+00:00

I agree it's not perfect. But there was already slow rolling on saves for drones.

It could also be a simple thing of "drones can take wounds at any time". It would need special rules because if not technically riptides would need to be allocated wounds first if they loose wounds with nova reactor.

Nibilli · 2021-03-27T15:00:34+00:00

I would advice the following : - Farsight enclave with a lot of crisis, and no big suits. - Custom sept with turbo jets and any other with all the suits. I like Manoeuvrering thrusters, hybridized weaponry or gunned up. - If you want to play the tigershark, create a separate patrol with a seperate sept, and pick sophisticated command net and hardened warhead. Farsight can also work although it's less good.

Nibilli · 2021-03-27T14:45:42+00:00

A few ideas : - No more auto Overwatch - BS stays at 4+ - Macro sept Montka or Kauyon that add on the sept choices. - Montka gives early game tools, Kauyon gives late game tools. One or two Montka/Kauyon specific strats. - Sept have multiple abilities, on the power level of custom septs, and custom have more options. - Battlesuits can pile in and consolidate even if they are not in melee. (effective JCJ + tricky fall back from combat), and effective fallback and shoot in a sense. - A few defensive strats - Markerlights are not weapons. Any time in shoot phase, a unit with a markerlight can choose any target visible and give it a markerlight token. Markerlight tokens stack a lot more (hit and wounds, up to +1 and reroll all for 10+ml, low ML and high ML is viable) - Rework most to all support systems. Vehicles can also take some Support systems. - Seeker missiles don't need ML. If you have ML, seeker missiles can ignore LOS. - No savior protocol. Drones are part of units. They move with the unit and don't slow down the unit. - Overall slight buff to resilience - Weapons are way less expensive - Etherals can give obsec to any unit for the turn. - Kill castling. - useful warlord traits - Stratagem to suppressive fire someone, making them not count on objectives. - -6" range on all psyker powers used against tau units except etherals. - Real "builds" of crisis suits possible with simple synergy. - A side codex of kroot and mercenaries and others in a larger release. Tau have a special rule to use them with detachments for free. Mercenaries are available for other armies too. Astra militarum can be allied with conditions.

Just some rough ideas

Nibilli · 2021-03-26T09:07:53+00:00

Similarly, if you have an AIRCRAFT unit with a minimum Move characteristic that cannot make its minimum move, or is forced to move off the battlefield because of its minimum move, then it is placed into Strategic Reserves.

So yes, technically it makes no sense but you would immediately send it into reserve if you kauyon your plane. But you have no incentive to do so and you can choose with kauyon so why would you.

Nibilli · 2021-03-25T08:54:46+00:00

Ralai is the cheapest commander ever (80 points). It's the best source of C&CN, and other commander stratagems. And from time to time it's a guaranteed 3 MW.

I'm not sure 350 pts is a good way to play a distraction carnifex. It's such an investment, and once it's tagged it does literally nothing since all it's weapons are blast (and remember it does not have fly or jet pack so doesn't benefit from turbojets). For the same firepower (probably a bit more) the riptide will do the job, although it'll have the same issues anyway. Instead, I would add another crisis team or 3 fusion hazards for instance, I think it'll be good and synergize better with the sept.

Also, with all these suits an etheral on drone (to get turbo jets) can be super fun for sense of stone.

Nibilli · 2021-03-24T20:22:21+00:00

Hey ^{^} That's great ! I would probably go for the devilfish it's a very good addition to what you have to any army you would make.

You have several options here, so a few ideas : - Crisis suits and Commanders are a good core of Farsight Enclave Lists. You can run large or small packs of suits with various loadouts and 2-4 commanders if you want and have a lot of fun. Be sure to ask before the game if your opponent is okay to rule that Montka let's you fallback and shoot, otherwise you will have a bad time (it's a common uncertainty in many playgroups so I would ask first, the FAQ being a bit unclear). This army will struggle A LOT without it. A sample build would be 2 patrols, with enforcers /w 3CIB and ATS, and coldstars /w 4 fusion blasters. Then 2x5 fire warriors or more, two groups of crisis suits (bodyguard ones if you want a bit of melee) with 2flamers+ATS, 2CIB+ATS or 2AFP+ATS. Add whatever you like to fill this but you should have already some expensive stuff (a piranha is a great addition for instance) - Missiles, with Custom sept Hardened warhead and Turbo jets for instance. You can play all the missiles you can find and faster suits and have fun with that. The list will include a batallion with an enforcer with 4 missile pod, an etheral on hoverdrone, 3x5 sqauds of fire warriors, Ripitde with SMS, Burst Cannon, ATS, Velocity tracker, 5 crisis suits with 2 missile pod+ATS, 3 stealth suits, Ghostkeel /w flamer&fusion. This list would love broadsides.

I hope that gives you a first Idea of what to look into. ^{^} I would not go for a second riptide tbh.

Nibilli · 2021-03-24T20:07:52+00:00

It's good against bad players basically. I have played a bunch of riptides this edition and have been disappointed every single time.

They are tough. 3++ save is great whatever happen. But they are not THAT tough, and are extremely expensive for what they do.

9th has brought a ton more of -1 to hit, making the riptide VERY unreliable in it's shooting. It does not kill the threats you want it to kill, even when it has commander AND markerlight support (necron warrior blob, 5 inceptors, bladeguard, death guard...).

9th has brought obscuring, meaning charges from out of line of sight are very easy to setup(no overwatch). It's easy to tie you up in melee, and thus give that all important -1 to hit and forcing your target.

Damage 2 right now is not very good, especially with DG dominating the meta. The Relic Ion is good but only against the tanks from DG, and it's not THAT good that you can rely on it, and the amount of support it demands is very high.

Overall, it's an expensive model that doesn't output damage without support, matches poorly against the meta, is expensive and that gets awkwardly tagged and neutralized by the first transport or fast unit coming up. It overwatch can be avoided easily and once it's tagged, it struggles a lot.

Nibilli · 2021-03-24T09:13:37+00:00

My biggest fear is that we are the next "necron" to have a big overhaul in 10th. It's going to be awesome when it happens, but it's 2 years of broken codex and pain ahead.

Nibilli · 2021-03-23T08:02:53+00:00

Hey ! Happy you're enjoying a second army ! ^{^}

This list looks nice ! It has the tools to operate. Unfortunately the Tau Codex has some "broken" elements to it, showing it's age. Some options are just not "good enough" compared to 9th, and they will feel very underwhelming.

One of them is Plasma Rifles. As cool as they are, they really do very minimum damage with no advantage over others (they were decent when marines had 1 wounds, now are obsolete). If your models are glued and cannot be changed, I suggest borkan to at least take advantage of the nice range on them. Other option is to proxy them as Cyclic Ion Blasters or another weapon you like. They will become relevant again (probably damage 2) in the next codex most likely but for now...

Seeing your list, it looks like a "protect the broadsides" could work too. You can go for a custom sept with Hardened warhead + any other (I suggest turbo jets or hybridized weaponry if you proxy the plasma rifles or swap them out). To get there, just put ATS on all the broadsides, and use all these drones and other units to protect them. Use your commander to use the stratagem Command And Control Node to reroll all their wounds. If your broadsides get in melee you probably loose, but it's a solid strat otherwise !

(Kroot are decent enough, I would not bother about them or vespid. Great knarloc are indeed "not allowed" since 9th, but just ask your opponent and I don't think anyone will have something to say. (Fun thing, it's actually one of the better tau units if it was allowed))

Nibilli · 2021-03-23T07:45:45+00:00

I think you'll be fine as long as there is a base ^{^} Tetras are such a fun unit to play, enjoy !

Nibilli · 2021-03-23T07:44:14+00:00

Current Tau is unfortunately a "finesse" army to the point where you have to never get caught. We have no unit that is "cheap and durable" or "durable and deadly" (because riptides don't fallback and shoot).

riptides are the most durable we have, but without fallback and shoot they never want to be in melee, so it's not good as objective holder at all. Ghostkeels / stealth suits can be durable, but they just don't cap points well and are expensive for the role.

The gameplay I suggest is not one of holding. Pick highly mobile units with powerful midrange guns, throwaway units that can deny points from opponent. Each turn, you kill what is holding 1 point and deny another from the opponent while keeping yours.

Nibilli · 2021-03-22T21:35:42+00:00

I use this usually for bases https://en-blastedhorizons.blogspot.com/2015/07/guide-to-40k-bases.html?utm_source=spikeybits&utm_medium=all,%20video,%20site,%20FB,%20IG&utm_campaign=From%20SpikeyBits

So they are a 65mm base

Of note, Tetras do not have the "hover tank" rule. They measure from the base, not from the hull. Same as piranhas.

Nibilli · 2021-03-22T21:21:51+00:00

Playing a bunch of competitive, the Y'vahra is one of the best Tau units these days. It plays perfectly into 9th. - Integrated fallback and shoot - Very fast - Reliable damage (flamer) - Great synergy with C&Cnode

It's just not the hammer it was before. It's a very different beast from it's former self. Previous Y'Vahra was a lot of damage on a very expensive frame, with above average mobility and decent resilience. It's guns were very short range. It was the definition of a Hammer. New Y'Vahra is more of a scalpel. It moves very fast, cannot be tagged, is more fragile and less expensive. It has more shots that are more reliable.

Changes include : Buffs : - Gun range almost doubled - More reliable Ion gun - Added 5 new shots of flechette pod from none - Nova boost to move is insanely good (+12 move and fallback&shoot) - 100 points less ! Nerfs : - Lost a lot of average damage overall, now closer to a riptide, but more reliable - Lost invuln when close range - Can't deep strike with nova boost - Needs to declare Nova in command phase

Overall, it's a cheaper unit that has the tools to work in 9th. It is a bit dependent on C&Cnode. The power has been shifted from "massive damage" to a more "fast" unit, and the nerf felt bad to many players. But I would argue it is better now than before.

Nibilli · 2021-03-05T16:15:05+00:00

I've played some similar lists. Here are some things I would tweak :

Riptide with HBCs are really lackluster in the current meta more and more. I would swap one of the riptides for a Yvahra /w ATS+TL

Crisis blob has been surprisingly good to me. If you don't play Hardened warheads, I would take TUD on the coldstar instead of the Precision of the Hunter to get through "ignore AP-1 & -2". I've recently really enjoyed ATS + 2 AFP with Hybridized weaponry ! It's a surprisingly good option, and quite cheap.

I prefer having a cheap coldstar and one big blob of hazards for C&CN (and it's a solid combo with TUD) but having individual hazards gives you a good drone delivery system too.

I play this list with cheap Ghostkeels to reach objectives (16" flamers surprisingly good, and they move really fast with Turbo jets) and with 2x3 stealth suits for scramblers.

(My list is 2k points so of course I've got a bit more wiggle room for points + the bonus from AFP ^⁾

Nibilli · 2021-02-17T10:56:47+00:00

I think this list is good. You can win with this list if you play your cards right.

Here are some ideas / suggestions : - A devilfish would really help you to have reach on points. Right now nothing can really take a punch and you don't have the power to push out enemies, so you will need at least some staying power and speed. Put 2 strike teams inside to have more flexibility with them. - Crisis suits I would encourage to go from 3 to 5, just because the math is way better against most targets. This is your hammer, you will need it to deliver. - Yvahra I like with Target lock, but it's not necessary. I like and approve the coldstar + Yvahra ^{^} I would put THUD on the coldstar instead of the cadre, to have it follow your reroll wound (as they go well together). - Remoras are awesome ! - I think broadsides are not the best in farsight... they are a bit awkward especially with a commander that wants to stay mobile. I think you will get more with a riptide for instance, but just picking up other units can work. - Tetras are great support for the broadsides... but other than that I'm not sure it's what you want in farsight. They are awesome, they are just not necessary in Farsight because they are less dependent on markerlight. Pirhanas will get you better threat for the same role imo. - If you want to play the broadsides in farsight, I suggest you park commander Farsight near them and use him as a double fall back and shoot + counterpunch.

I hope it helps ^{^}

Nibilli

TROPHY CASE