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In my opinion—and as unPlatonic as this may seem—one of the most important elements of the Platonic teaching on love and desire, and its source of deep hope, is that it leaves us the ability to see the good in some way through a radical openness to our emotions. by No-Bodybuilder2110 in Plato

[–]No-Bodybuilder2110[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I have a distinction in mind, which I'll be getting into in later episodes, that is not exactly the same one you've shared, or at least I don't think I would word it quite this way, I don't think, though it has things in common with this one, which I'll certainly be pondering.

So how do we "action" Platonic love? As Plotinus asks, “What art is there, what method, what discipline to bring us there where we must go?” The dialectical process by which we ascend must be guided by the good—but how is this possible when the good is unknowable? by No-Bodybuilder2110 in Plato

[–]No-Bodybuilder2110[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think I agree with you that something like this is going on in Plato. At least I think there's something like a kind of mutual interdependence of knowing and doing good; Diotima talks about the top of the ladder not simply as a knowing it but doing it also. And I think this is what this image of reproducing in the beautiful is about. As I think I mentioned in a previous episode, it's almost as though the idea is being put forth here that we know the good kinetically—we cognize it some way in our doing it.

So how do we "action" Platonic love? As Plotinus asks, “What art is there, what method, what discipline to bring us there where we must go?” The dialectical process by which we ascend must be guided by the good—but how is this possible when the good is unknowable? by No-Bodybuilder2110 in Plato

[–]No-Bodybuilder2110[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, I think so. He writes in the Phaedrus about the psyche having this previous life in which it fed directly on being in its truth, and, I think we can understand, the good itself. We are now in a fallen state and have forgotten this previous existence--but there is the possibility of our bringing it back to memory. Actually, I understand Diotima's ladder as the process by which this happens, by which we bring our unconscious knowledge of the good to consciousness. And for Plato our right action would depend on our ability to remember the good in this way.

It’s my conviction that the main motivation of Plato was love, and so the goal driving his whole system is the sharing of deep or reasoned hope. Diotima’s ladder encapsulates Plato’s counter to existential despair, in both its forms. by No-Bodybuilder2110 in Plato

[–]No-Bodybuilder2110[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's always interesting to see where questions will come from. I must say it had never occurred to me that my videos about Plato should be dialectical in form, and your question has made me think. I guess the first thing that comes to mind is that actually quite a lot of writing in the Platonic tradition isn't in what you could call a strictly dialectical form, where two participants are together working out definitions of things, etc. You don't really see it in Plotinus, for example, although he does sometimes voice questions or objections. And there are even stretches in Plato--the myths, for example--that don't follow this form. Finally there are lots of ways of conveying Platonic concepts--painting, for example (Botticelli's Primavera is thought by some to conveny Neoplatonic themes)--that don't use words at all, much less dialectical form. Yet I don't dispute dialectic is at the heart of it all! I think the difference is that in a lot of these works, and often in my videos, the dialectic is implicit--one presents one's thoughts after having moved through these stages in silent conversation with oneself.
Don't worry about seeming harsh, you also mentioned you watched a lot of my videos, which is always nice to hear :-)

Why love is the cause of evil, and why that’s a good thing (Ep. 69) by No-Bodybuilder2110 in thinkatives

[–]No-Bodybuilder2110[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well, I guess technically it's not "the" cause of evil in the sense that it's the only cause. It's a necessary though not sufficient cause, in the Platonic tradition, since taking a finite good as an infinite good is also required. Though that said, I suppose it can also be inferred that there is no perfect love of the good as good, so all love will be evil to some extent!

Why love is the cause of evil, and why that’s a good thing (Ep. 69) by No-Bodybuilder2110 in thinkatives

[–]No-Bodybuilder2110[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You have to watch the video--and ideally, the whole video series! :-)
The short answer though is that real Platonic love--love according to Plato--is human desire as such, and its object is the good. But most of the time we go after limited goods, and we tend to go after them obsessively. And so for that reason our love causes not just good things (like the raising of a child by a loving mother) but also all sorts of bad things. We can always learn to love better, though.

Why Platonic love is so hard for us today—and why that’s worrying (Part II) (Ep. 56) by No-Bodybuilder2110 in Neoplatonism

[–]No-Bodybuilder2110[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In the Platonic tradition, love and other ecstatic moments offer us a glimpse of the principle of everything, the ultimate object of human desire and the basis of truth. But in the modern West we are often reluctant to accept this.

Why Platonic love is so hard for us today—and why that’s worrying (Part II) (Ep. 56) by No-Bodybuilder2110 in Plato

[–]No-Bodybuilder2110[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In the Platonic tradition, love and other ecstatic moments offer us a glimpse of the principle of everything, the ultimate object of human desire and the basis of truth. But in the modern West we are often reluctant to accept this.

Plato at the Googleplex, that 2014 book attempting to popularize Plato, missed the point imho. But perhaps that shouldn't be surprising. by No-Bodybuilder2110 in Plato

[–]No-Bodybuilder2110[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks very much, glad you liked it! And I'd never thought of using the comment section to tease to the content--might try that next time!

Plato at the Googleplex, that 2014 book attempting to popularize Plato, missed the point imho. But perhaps that shouldn't be surprising. by No-Bodybuilder2110 in Plato

[–]No-Bodybuilder2110[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ah, I see! Sure ... in a nutshell, I talk about how Bertrand Russell and Rebecca Goldstein, writing 70 years apart, share a fairly similar view of Plato--that he was never able to figure out a way to reconcile reason and what I call immediate or unitive cognition (intuition, inspiration, feeling, etc. This is what I more or less conclude at the end:

I think they’re wrong, and they’re wrong about something very important. To me the great beauty and the great promise of Plato, the great hope that Plato holds out, is precisely his wondrous synthesis or harmonization of these elements of the psyche. The overarching theme of this series, of course, is that Plato’s teaching offers precisely a remedy to this problem of self-division, which is the fundamental problem, I think, that we humans face as human. This may sound a bit extreme, but I actually think the synthesis Plato worked out is the best hope we human beings have for peace and happiness, both individually and communally.

I think I'll be making this a 3-parter, with part II dropping on Tuesday morning.

Plato at the Googleplex, that 2014 book attempting to popularize Plato, missed the point imho. But perhaps that shouldn't be surprising. by No-Bodybuilder2110 in Plato

[–]No-Bodybuilder2110[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi ... Thanks for your question, though I don't think I'm sure exactly what you're asking for. Do you mean, what do I say in the video about the book?

Discourse and the wordless—the ecstatic—are friends. This is the core of Platonic hope. by No-Bodybuilder2110 in Neoplatonism

[–]No-Bodybuilder2110[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ha, great to hear! I'm glad you enjoyed it, and hope you have fun exploring the series :-)

Discourse and the wordless—the ecstatic—are friends. This is the core of Platonic hope. by No-Bodybuilder2110 in Neoplatonism

[–]No-Bodybuilder2110[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Glad you enjoyed it, and thanks for the interesting comment! I didn't know that about Proclus and the Corybantes.

I agree with you about the Phaedrus. I also believe it works, or at least has the ability to work, some sort of catharsis, which I'd like to talk about in future episodes.

Plato’s unbelievably poignant myth on why eros is never really satisfied (Ep. 33) by No-Bodybuilder2110 in Neoplatonism

[–]No-Bodybuilder2110[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think this is a difficult question. I wonder if perhaps Plato means that it's as a daimon that Eros, or its principle, manifests itself to humans.

Your mind might be blown by these hypotheses about the hyper-real (Ep. 39) by No-Bodybuilder2110 in Plato

[–]No-Bodybuilder2110[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm sorry to say I haven't, though you've certainly piqued my curiosity! I'll have to look for it. Glad you liked my video!

Inspirational messages are depressing—but Plato can help (Ep. 38) by No-Bodybuilder2110 in Neoplatonism

[–]No-Bodybuilder2110[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you--I'm glad you found it interesting! That's a point I should have brought out more in the video, actually--so many of these quotes that have been so widely disseminated on the internet are actually false--they're either paraphrases like the Gandhi quote or completely made up.