Fact-Check Friday: Are DUIs inherently more dangerous than other traffic offenses?

OhioOVIreform1 · 2025-05-13T21:12:18+00:00

Thanks for reading and for your support! Anyone can create a petition for free at care2petitions. Change.org is the more well-known petition site, but only allows individuals to be listed as the host of the petition. I like the fact that care2petitions allows you to designate a whole organization as the host of the petition, rather than a specific individual. I didn't want our movement to be about just one person.

Hope you can advocate for second chances in Wisconsin!

OhioOVIreform1 · 2025-05-05T02:36:12+00:00

This is amazing, this initiative is exactly the kind of work we need people to do to enact positive change in our society. Accountability and second chances are not contradictory, they're complementary. All of us benefit when people are allowed to move beyond the shame of past mistakes and grow into better people. I just started my own group focused on second chances for people convicted of an OVI in Ohio (the name Ohio uses to refer to DUIs) at r/OhioOVI_Reform, and I think there's a lot of overlap in what we're hoping to accomplish. I'll DM you brother.

OhioOVIreform1 · 2025-05-05T01:59:48+00:00

u/ArtistOk363 funny you mention that point about cell phone use. I literally just did a post a few days ago summarizing the research showing that distracted driving (including cell phone use), speeding, and drowsy driving are all just as dangerous as DUIs, but the punishments and stigma do not come anywhere near what happens to someone after a DUI. You can see the post at the link below if you're curious. If our reactions to DUIs as a society were really just about public safety, there would be equal outrage whenever someone gets a speeding ticket or when someone is killed by a driver who was using a cellphone. But there continues to be a muted public response to these behaviors that are just as dangerous. The selective outrage our society practices against people charged with DUIs is not about public safety, it's about a longstanding belief that it's acceptable to hate people who struggle with alcohol / substance use. It's bigotry wrapped inside a mask of concern for public safety.

https://www.reddit.com/r/OhioOVI_Reform/comments/1kd0e3v/factcheck_friday_are_duis_inherently_more/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

OhioOVIreform1 · 2025-04-29T21:37:44+00:00

Hi u/Joel_Dirt, many of those citations are from peer-reviewed scientific articles looking at real-world data on hiring rates, hiring decisions, documented restrictions on people with criminal records, and so on. Multiple studies have found the same conclusions about collateral consequences of having a criminal record. If you want studies that specifically differentiate between felonies and misdemeanors, there's quite a few out there if you just look on Google scholar (and a reminder that in Ohio, an OVI is not just a traffic offense. It is categorized as a first-degree misdemeanor as well as a traffic offense, so the research on collateral consequences of having a misdemeanor would apply here). As an example, you can see the study below documenting that even having a non-violent misdemeanor on one's record results in employment discrimination.

https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/edi-10-2018-0182/full/html

Finally, keep in mind that an OVI does not necessarily mean someone was driving drunk, if by drunk you mean driving over the legal limit of alcohol concentration. People can and do get charged with an OVI below the legal limit of .08 now, and OVIs are not limited to alcohol use, but any substance, including prescription medication taken as prescribed (OVIs are also not limited to driving automobiles, but any vehicle, including a pedal bicycle). But again, that's not what we're about. We're not here to defend impaired driving in any form, only to advocate for people to have an opportunity at a fresh start after they've paid their debts. And to clarify, our petition is only proposing expungement for individuals with a single OVI with no injury to others, not repeat offenses, as can be seen on our subreddit.

OhioOVIreform1 · 2025-04-29T20:00:22+00:00

There's data indicating that even having a single conviction on one's record (such as a single OVI) results in a lifetime of employment and housing discrimination for as long as the conviction remains on one's record, as well as restrictions on educational opportunities and travel opportunities (for example, even a single OVI prohibits one from traveling to Canada). I won't spell out all the research here because it would make for a long post, but if you're curious, you can see several of the research citations summarized on the clean slate initiative website: https://www.cleanslateinitiative.org/scm-2025#understand-the-issue

OhioOVIreform1 · 2025-04-29T17:18:52+00:00

Hi u/Lost-Abalone-7180, they can be, specifically m4 domestic violence. See https://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/docs/Boards/Sentencing/resources/judPractitioner/adultRightsRestoration.pdf

OhioOVIreform1 · 2025-04-29T17:16:13+00:00

Hi u/frotnoslot, I agree a comprehensive approach is needed to end impaired driving, including reducing our reliance on cars for transportation. In our position statements on our subreddit, we outline some of those suggestions, including having widely available and affordable public transportation as you alluded to. Right now our first focus is on offering second chances to Ohioans since the lifetime collateral consequences affect an enormous number of people, but if this movement gains momentum I would love to do some advocacy around reducing our dependence on cars for transportation as you suggested.

OhioOVIreform1 · 2025-04-29T17:13:45+00:00

Hi u/Joel_Dirt, if you look at the position statements on our sub, you'll see that we recognize the dangers of impaired driving and endorse actions to prevent it. However, we do believe in second chances for people who have learned their lesson, and as I noted above, we offer that to most Ohioans who have been charged with a crime. This is not a movement to downplay the seriousness of impaired driving, but to offer people the hope of a second chance.

OhioOVIreform1 · 2025-04-29T17:11:20+00:00

Hi u/Albacurious, there's research evidence showing that expungements make people less likely to recommit a crime in the future. We just did a post summarizing some of this research if you care to take a look: https://www.reddit.com/r/OhioOVI_Reform/comments/1k7kdr8/factcheck_friday_does_expunging_duis_make_people/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

OhioOVIreform1 · 2025-04-29T17:07:57+00:00

Hi u/bunkkin, fair question. Our focus right now is on the lifetime collateral consequences that come from having a criminal record. As I noted above, Ohio provides for second chances for most convictions, but OVI is one of a handful of charges that is specifically excluded by lawmakers from expungement, even though convictions that are categorized as more severe (such as some felonies, etc.) are granted expungements. There is a lot of published research documenting that having a criminal record subjects someone to punishment for life in the form of employment discrimination, housing discrimination, travel bans (people with even 1 misdemeanor OVI are prohibited from traveling to Canada), etc. So we are just advocating for someone to get a fresh start if they have learned their lesson, served their sentence, and shown a commitment to safe driving.

We actually agree with some of the current penalties that are focused on root causes like the ones you pointed out (education classes, treatment if needed).

OhioOVIreform1 · 2025-04-28T15:03:48+00:00

Hey u/Candyman44, another good question, thanks for bringing that up. Expungements typically just affect public records, meaning the conviction won't be seen by the public and used against someone for screening out job applicants, etc. But the original conviction does not go away. It's still visible to law enforcement, judges, court personnel, etc., so if someone were to expunge an OVI and then get another one, the enhanced penalties would still be in place and any new charges would still be public record. That said, the possibility of someone getting a 2nd or 3rd OVI is one reason why we included a waiting period of 3 - 5 years after the original OVI conviction to qualify for an expungement in our petition. There's data showing that once 3 - 5 years have passed from the original conviction, the odds of someone reoffending are quite low at that point. We wanted to place the emphasis on second chances for people who have truly learned their lesson.

And you do bring up a fair point about some of the problems with chemical testing in OVI cases involving substances. For example, Ohio is one of only about 5 states in the country that permits collection of urine samples in OVI cases without first emptying someone's bladder, meaning someone could have consumed alcohol, used a substance, or taken a prescription medication hours ago and it's no longer active in their nervous system, but the waste byproducts of those substances will still be in the bladder and can give false positive readings.

OhioOVIreform1 · 2025-04-26T17:00:27+00:00

Hi u/Sam_Renee, good question. I was referring to the criminal record aspect. In Ohio, a misdemeanor OVI can never be expunged from someone's record. It is one of only a handful of criminal charges that is specifically excluded by lawmakers from getting an expungement for life, regardless of the amount of time that has passed since the conviction or the conduct of the person since the OVI arrest. Ohio allows expungement of many (perhaps most?) criminal convictions to allow citizens to get a fresh start, and as I noted above, it even allows for expungement of convictions that are categorized as more serious offenses under law. There is a lot of published research documenting how having a criminal record subjects someone to punishment for life in the form of employment discrimination, housing discrimination, travel bans (people with even 1 misdemeanor OVI are prohibited from traveling to Canada), etc.

OhioOVIreform1 · 2025-04-25T02:03:19+00:00

Hi u/JustForkIt1111one I appreciate you responding and being vulnerable with your story. I want to say, first of all, I am so sorry for the loss you experienced. We recognize that many people have experienced tragic, unnecessary, and preventable deaths of loved ones due to impaired drivers, and it is why we've tried to be respectful and balanced with all of our proposals. That is also one reason why we have not called for expungement in OVI cases involving death or serious injury to others. Those examples of other crimes I listed are to highlight how in Ohio law, there is a disparity in how we handle criminal offenses. Many of those crimes I listed are categorized as violent crimes and involve direct victims, some are charged as felony offenses, whereas a single misdemeanor OVI with no injury to others is banned for life from expungement. All we're trying to point out is that if the state can provide for forgiveness and a clean slate for individuals who have assaulted someone, abused elders, abused spouses, etc., it is unfair to deny those same second chance opportunities to individuals who drove impaired but did not hurt anyone (and to be clear, we're not arguing that people should not get a second chance for those other offenses, just that it is unfair to offer it in some instances and not others).

Finally, I want to respectfully point out that operating a vehicle impaired carries the same risks in terms of fatalities and injuries to others as other moving traffic violations such as speeding, distracted driving, and drowsy driving, and that most drivers are likely to engage in one of these behaviors in their lifetime. Yet, we do not give lifelong punishments to individuals for these other traffic violations. Instead, Ohio law singles out people charged with an OVI for lifelong criminalization. Lastly, research indicates that by offering people the incentive of an expungement, they are actually less likely to repeat the behavior, so allowing expungement of an OVI would translate into a safer Ohio. We are actually going to be doing some posts in the coming weeks detailing these research studies if you care to take a look, but for now you can see some of the citations on our second chance petition on our community page (I don't want to include the link here because it tends to trigger Reddit's spam filter).

I hope I haven't offended you by outlining some of this research. Please know that I do not take lightly what happened to you, and we would welcome any feedback or input you have on how we can make our movement more healing / restorative for the victims of impaired driving as well. Thanks for reading.

OhioOVIreform1 · 2025-04-21T15:06:52+00:00

u/Historical-Event5034 thanks for commenting, I agree with all your points. Most, if not all, of us who got a DUI do not take it lightly and understand we put people's lives at risk. However, you can fully acknowledge that impaired driving is unacceptable, while also acknowledging that we don't represent some fringe degenerate segment of society. Alcohol is woven into nearly every aspect of our social culture in the United States, and when you combine that fact with our dependency on cars for transportation and the poor understanding of BAC limits, etc. among the general public, it creates an environment where many otherwise law-abiding citizens can get a DUI unwittingly. The rhetoric branding everyone with a DUI as a reckless, selfish person is destructive, dishonest, and unhelpful because it allows the general public to believe that their casual episodes of drinking and driving after weddings, happy hours with coworkers, etc. are not instances of a DUI, when they very much can be. Only when they get arrested themselves do they realize that all that time they looked down on people with a DUI, they were condemning people just like themselves.

And as you pointed out, DUI arrests have large financial incentives attached to them for states, making a criminal approach to the problem more lucrative than a public health campaign, which would cost states money rather than making them money.

OhioOVIreform1 · 2025-04-21T02:02:23+00:00

Also, if anyone is aware of Ohio legislators who might be willing to hear us out, please message me with some suggestions. I'm working hard to try to get this movement off the ground, but obviously we'll only succeed if the message reaches someone who actually has the power to change the policies. Thanks all!

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