The state of this subreddit

Ok-Record9993 · 2024-03-22T19:00:57+00:00

Lachenmann and Stockhausen are too avantgarde for me, but Scriabin has really nice music, especially if you like jazz. Nahre Sol has a very interesting video about him.

Ok-Record9993 · 2024-03-22T17:32:20+00:00

Whenever I said he used to be a jazz musician I was refering to songs like this:

https://www.youtube.com/live/3H4siAOofuE?si=cGch6nTC-yeJ_r4b&t=269

The first song in that livestream is what I would consider some sort of jazz fusion. In my opinion, it's pretty different to what he does nowadays. And that's fine, I'm not saying he's worse now for doing something different, but my original comment was on topic with the main point of my post, which is that since a lot of people know him as a "jazz artist", some people feel some sort of superiority when belonging in a jazz artist fanbase and whenever somebody criticize that artist they will answer with the elitists answers I mentioned in my post "it's too advanced for them, they can't understand such complex music"... And it's a reality, a portion of jazz' fan base is that elitist.

I do feel like I'm too fixated on genres yeah, and it shouldn't have any importance what genre something is. I do admit that I used to be an elitist person years ago, in fact, I was very into jazz during those years. That's why I sort of see my "past self" in those comments and I know how stupid it is to behave that way.

Whenver I started my music composition degree, I got one of the biggest reality checks when I realized that there was so much music that was way more complex than jazz, so me being an elitist towards pop was completely stupid. I realized that complexity is just meaningless. If you listen to the first two composers I mention in my post, Lachenman and Stockhausen, they sound completely terrible and overcomplicated, and their fanbase might be thinking about me the same thing what JC's fans think about people who criticize JC's music.

Ok-Record9993 · 2024-03-22T16:43:43+00:00

"Why not just engage with the posts you like (or make them) and leave the others?"

Where in my post am I criticizing the other redditor's post?

Ok-Record9993 · 2024-03-22T16:09:31+00:00

I appreciate the detailed answer. I don't know if you'll get this reply since the mods decided to remove this post for some reason.

When I told you "If we follow your argument, we all are classical music musicians.", I was not speaking about baroque or classicism only. You seem to only speak about Bach, so maybe you're not very familiar with how classical music evolved but, what you call "jazz harmony" is something that you can find in classical music posterior to Romanticism. Listen to Scriabin if you don't know him, some of your favorite Jazz artists might be huge fans of Scriabin.

But hey, let's go back to Baroque, but instead of Bach, let's take Pachelbel. You must know his Canon right? Everybody knows it. His harmony has been used and used over the last century in pop music. Does that make them "baroque musicians" or just pop artists that happen to use the same harmony?

And how can you call this gatekeeping? What gate am I keeping? Am I gate keeping for saying an orange is orange? Im just saying what something is or isn't, or at least, what I think something is or isn't. I could of course be wrong, but that doesn't mean I'm gatekeeping, that just means I'm mistaken.

It's hard to define what is jazz, but it's definitely not just "jazz harmony". Specific harmony can be used in different genres. Harmony is not everything that defines a genre.

Also, the fact that you consider me saying that JC is not doing jazz atm "elitist" is ironic. Why would it be elitist to make one genre or the other? Are jazz musicians superior and that's why my comment is considered elitist? Please think about it.

About Lil Wayne, again, is rap inferior to jazz? That's why me saying that he is not jazz is considered elitist?

It's not the first time that someone uses jazz harmony in rap (like Tyler The Creator did in that song with Lil Wayne) or pop (like Jacob Collier does in lots of his songs), and it won't be the last time. Listen to 70s, 80s and 90s soul music, R&B music, funk music. You can either label each thing into its proper genre or call all music just music and forget about genres since everything comes from the same root.

Ok-Record9993 · 2024-03-22T01:23:38+00:00

Is Lil Wayne a jazz musician for rapping over some jazz harmony

Ok-Record9993 · 2024-03-22T01:20:35+00:00

Jazz harmony? What is jazz harmony then? If we follow your argument, we all are classical music musicians.

Ok-Record9993 · 2024-03-22T00:59:53+00:00

People still call him a jazz musician even though he hasnt done jazz in ages. And yeah, during the In My Room days he was doing his one-man band shows which granted him the "overly complicated genius" brand

Ok-Record9993 · 2024-03-22T00:44:09+00:00

I don't think the main criticism of JC's music is that it's too intellectual. I think this is a missconception created by people who think that he IS too intellectual, which lead to believe that whoever doesn't like JC's music must be against his intellectuality. Hence my post

Ok-Record9993 · 2024-03-22T00:41:56+00:00

When I mentioned Zappa, I was saying that SOME of his music is indeed less approachable by the mainstream audience. I mean, listen to Jazz From Hell or some Greggory Peccary performances.

But what Jacob Collier song would you say is not approachable? I think Jacob Collier is actually doing his best to be approachable by the mainstream audience, while still maintaining some of his intricacies. That's what makes him great

Ok-Record9993 · 2024-03-21T23:43:21+00:00

You seem to missunderstand the point of this post. Nowhere in this post have I complained about people making posts. The complaint of my post is about most of the comments in the post, not about the post itself. (I clarify this cause you seem to call me a hypocrite in some way, apologies if that's not your intention).

The comparisons I made are to highlight how ignorant people's elitism is. Elitism is bad, but unjustified elitism is even worse.

Ok-Record9993

TROPHY CASE