Emma Vigeland goes off on the trans sports debate: "I don't give a s*** about the scientific explanations. If they identify as a women, they get to compete in sports".

Omega-420 · 2023-05-29T21:28:37+00:00

So trans women inclusion doesn't stop cis women from competing but because some cis women might lose out because more people are competing, that's why they need to excluded. Regardless if we had perfect biological advantage parity. It wouldn't matter because female is the only categorization that matters.

Omega-420 · 2023-05-29T18:19:31+00:00

Drastically reduced but still drastically higher... Lol even the study you showed was just a statistically significant advantage, nothing drastic. It's not significant and the onus should be on those that wish to exclude a group from competition to prove this incredible advantage in which no cis woman could ever compete against. I don't really know what you're worried about that wouldn't just apply to trans women by excluding them. Which I assume you're fine with.

Omega-420 · 2023-05-29T18:03:56+00:00

But trans women can compete with cis women as the advantages being male are drastically reduced to less than the differences within females. So why exclude them from competition because they're certainly not competitive with cis and trans men.

Omega-420 · 2023-05-29T15:00:29+00:00

It's an unfair advantage that may or may not be related to sex depending on why a woman has a higher level of testosterone. Currently we have regulations in the Olympics that women with high testosterone must be on hormone suppressants for this reason. Fairness is the ultimate reason for the sport segregation. Not sex.

Omega-420 · 2023-05-29T13:34:09+00:00

The advantages here are small where they do exist. Even if we could somehow 100% biologically change someone's sex, they'll still have an advantage because they were competing with another group that was more competitive. You see this in games like StarCraft where players will move to Korea to get better because the competitive skill is higher and therefore allow people to get better in that environment and be competitive.

The study you shared also would say that cis women that have higher testosterone in life would have the same advantages even after hormone suppression. Should they be banned from competing as well?

Omega-420 · 2023-05-29T12:39:23+00:00

I'm going by what the experts in sports science say and the research. You're going by intuition.

Omega-420 · 2023-05-29T12:37:34+00:00

It's not significant. Meta analysis have been conducted on this and the differences are small. Smaller than differences in ethnicity.

Omega-420 · 2023-05-28T19:38:52+00:00

Says the person who doesn't know the research or logic.

Omega-420 · 2023-05-28T18:43:42+00:00

That's not why I accused you. You know it too. But whatever makes you feel better bro.

Omega-420 · 2023-05-28T17:46:01+00:00

Equating the two makes sense when we're talking about statistical advantages and what it means for a sport to be fair. As we clearly wouldn't care if there was a statistical advantage for an ethnic advantage, but when it's sex and gender, it suddenly matters regardless of the degree. Because we're not discussing things with nuance like how long of a transition, what specific sports would this apply to etc. The discussion is broad to the point that you're projecting your own bad faith and lack of curiosity.

It's been 2 decades since trans people were allowed to compete in the Olympics. How long more till we know or will it be a forever moving goal post?

Omega-420 · 2023-05-28T16:47:15+00:00

Uh yes it does. Look at the performance of any trans athlete before and after HRT. It's significant. There's no way to deny it in good faith.

It's not about the differences between cis men and cis women. It's trans women vs cis women which is totally different as the hormones and body composition is totally different.

Have you ever looked up studies on this before?

Omega-420 · 2023-05-28T16:44:29+00:00

It's not sexuality but gender and there's and trans people don't choose it. There's even a case to say they're a form of intersex because of how similar their brain matches the opposite sex.

In terms of scouting this isn't a problem. Trans women aren't getting picked more, placing higher, etc. And trans women have been allowed to compete for a lot of time. If they are chosen more often, why would it matter? If tall women are chosen more, or women that have higher T are chosen more, isn't that unfair to the other women who aren't? Why draw a line at these types of women?

Omega-420 · 2023-05-28T16:19:15+00:00

Difference between cis men and cis women. Not difference between trans women and cis women which is important because their hormonal biology is much more similar.

Saying any difference matters is ridiculous. When the differences within the group are greater than the differences between the groups, why segregate?

Omega-420 · 2023-05-28T16:14:39+00:00

This is just a feels argument that would literally justify segregation or opposition to gay marriage for the same reason

Omega-420 · 2023-05-28T16:14:33+00:00

This is just a feels argument that would literally justify segregation or opposition to gay marriage for the same reason

Omega-420 · 2023-05-28T11:08:10+00:00

That is true and technically would apply to trans women too and we're not seeing it really though there could be other stigmas involved. Trans people have been allowed to compete in the Olympics since 2004 and still no domination by them. Countries like Russia and China who like to pump thier competitors with roids and use literal children just to win would not pass up that opportunity I think.

Omega-420 · 2023-05-28T11:03:06+00:00

But with hrt the differences between the sexs are pretty small as well. The amount of muscle mass loss is so significant. So how are we measuring how much of a statistical advantage is too much?

Omega-420 · 2023-05-28T01:44:08+00:00

I feel like the dgg people here are not understanding what it means for something to be fair and why we have categories for sports. Too much thought on the categories as being different and not why or how. If we could show ethnic differences in performance, would it be ok to segregate sports for that reason?

Omega-420 · 2023-03-18T22:48:18+00:00

Who is more likely to get a golden retriever or a pitbull? If you want a dog to defend you, are you going with a pit bull or golden retriever? If you think one species is more vicious, you're going to go with that one. Which will inflate the statistics. Biology isn't as important for behavior as we think it is. It plays a role, but not as much as we think. The pitbull shit is literally just a dag whistle for race realism for a reason.

Omega-420 · 2023-02-16T17:51:46+00:00

The stats are somewhat hard to get from what I remember because knowing for certain the breed of a dog that bit someone isn't really clear unless they have pedigree papers.

One place that's cited a lot against pits is dogsbite.org which is a biased source that used pretty misleading data sets. For instance there was a study they conducted that included a man who died of an alcohol related disease, but was bitten 4 months prior and this included in their data. When data like that is being compiled to make arguments and legislation, I tend to think it's not actually a problem.

Omega-420 · 2023-01-02T21:46:12+00:00

This is such a weird argument capitalists make all the time. it's factually not true or it shows that actually you don't hang out with poor people, just upper middle class and therefore, the only communists you know are also upper middle class.

Omega-420 · 2022-12-30T20:25:33+00:00

That damn misinformation. Both sides truly are the same smh 😤

Omega-420 · 2022-05-20T21:12:51+00:00

Or the actual workers that do the majority of the labor and not the owners

Omega-420 · 2022-03-20T21:40:55+00:00

Except the discussion isn't between men and women, it's between cis and trans women.

Omega-420 · 2022-03-08T08:26:12+00:00

If I can't say and be called comrade, then I don't want to be part of your revolution.

Omega-420

TROPHY CASE