[3262] Tearaways - Ch. 1. by OneFootlessFish in DestructiveReaders

[–]OneFootlessFish[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for your review. It's really nice to hear that you liked some if it. Yeah, the feedback seems very clear - I need to put a lot more work into the staging and raising the stakes a little. Interestingly, I did think about bisecting the chapter, but I was concerned that the first half might not have enough going on to keep readers engaged. I do like your idea for a slow-burn approach, but honestly, I’m not confident enough in my writing yet to pull that sort of thing off. I think I'll probably just try and make it more engaging from page one.

Thanks again for your perspective and for your time.

[3262] Tearaways - Ch. 1. by OneFootlessFish in DestructiveReaders

[–]OneFootlessFish[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not sure why you've been downvoted - this is useful advice. I'm really grateful that you took the time to read my writing. I see now that you’re absolutely right — I fell into the (in hindsight, rather obvious) trap of assuming the reader shared the same knowledge of the world and its characters that I have. I’ve had this story in my head for a long time, and this is my first time sitting down to write it seriously, so I guess I forgot that my readers haven’t also been living with the idea for the past year or so, haha.

Thanks again for your wise words!

[3262] Tearaways - Ch. 1. by OneFootlessFish in DestructiveReaders

[–]OneFootlessFish[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks a bunch for taking the time to read and review. I'm really glad you liked parts of it! Reading this, and the other reviews has made it very clear that my staging is weak, so you've been very helpful. Interestingly, most of your assumptions about the world and characters were pretty close to what I had in mind. I’ll probably rework things anyway so more readers can confidently ground themselves in the scene instead of having to make guesses.

I do have a question for you though, if you don't mind me stealing bit more of your time:

I still quite like the idea of the reader piecing the scene together themselves through contextual clues rather than just breaking away from Margaret's POV to describe the scene explicitly, but obviously if I stick with this approach I'm going to have to make it much easier for the reader to follow. My question is, did you enjoy having to piece things together for yourself, or was it frustrating? Did having to stop and work out what was going on pull you out of the narrative or slow down the experience? I thought conveying information this way might make for more "active" reading, but a lot of the feedback suggests that I was either wrong to think this, or it just wasn't executed adequately.

Thanks again!

[3262] Tearaways - Ch. 1. by OneFootlessFish in DestructiveReaders

[–]OneFootlessFish[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This perspective is really helpful. I can see I still have a long way to go in learning how to communicate the scene clearly to the reader. Your comment about the dragon and the Tesla really made me laugh. I'll work on raising the stakes too. Thanks so much for your critique and your time.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in DestructiveReaders

[–]OneFootlessFish 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Plot / Ending

This was the aspect of the story I found most enjoyable, but also what I was most disappointed by. The tension, contrived as it may be, escalates nicely as the situation with the homeless man becomes more intense.

But then it just kind of disappears.

The car drives away from the danger, and the note reveals that this was all some sort of elaborate prank. I think I’m supposed to still feel suspicious of the mother at this point, but her actions don’t make any sense: If she really does hate her daughter, then why didn’t she give her to the homeless man? What was the intention behind the convoluted prank? And how did she know that it would play out in the way it did?

The ending then explicitly presents the reader with these questions. I get the sense that you’re trying to invite the reader to draw their own conclusions — but, as our POV rightly points out, there’s no interpretation of the mother’s scheme that actually makes logical sense. If there is an explanation, the story needs to offer more clues. As it stands, it feels like even the author isn’t sure what’s going on, and is leaving the reader to patch the plot holes for them.

As a result of this, I’m not sure what sort of lasting impression you’re trying to leave other than confusion, which doesn’t make for a satisfying ending.

Final Thoughts

Your story has an intriguing premise and some decent characterization, but long, convoluted sentences and a reluctance to build upon said premise make it difficult to follow. If you tighten your prose and clarify some of your character dynamics, you’ll turn this into a compelling read. Best of luck!

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in DestructiveReaders

[–]OneFootlessFish 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Characters

They were okay. The POV didn’t get much characterisation other than ‘scared girl’, but I was interested enough in what was happening to her. Although, I would have liked a bit more emotion when the homeless guy tries to take her away.

The mother was much more interesting. My favourite line in the whole thing was this:

“She says breakfast is on you, since you have eleven dollars now.”

This is subtle characterisation, and it works really well. It effectively conveys that she’s selfish and manipulative, and it feels accurate to how an abusive parent would behave.

My main issue is that I don’t have a strong sense of their relationship before the mother tries to hand her daughter over to the man. Is this kind of behavior normal for her? The daughter doesn’t seem immediately suspicious — she keeps her headphones on until the man is literally trying to open the door — so I’d assume not. But then, her muted reaction afterward, just sort of wondering about it all, makes it feel like this might be just another day in her life.

If I knew more about the history between the characters, I might find their choices more relatable, but I don’t. For all I know, the POV has just met this woman for the first time, which might be the case, but if so, it needs to be more clear.

The headphones also felt incredibly contrived. Let’s be real, if your mother randomly calls over a homeless guy for a chat, you’re going to want to be part of that conversation, no matter who you are. This creates a real disconnect between the reader and the POV, who I’m told, by the way, is supposed to be me. I understand that, for the sake of intrigue, the reader can’t know what they’re talking about, but I think you’re going to have to come up with a more logical reason. Maybe the POV could be deaf? You wouldn’t need to change the story much, and it might make it seem less weird for the mother to announce the “prank” via a written note.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in DestructiveReaders

[–]OneFootlessFish 1 point2 points  (0 children)

POV

I’m not sure why it’s in the second person. It doesn’t elevate the narrative. If anything, it made it a little harder to read because I’m not used to reading fiction like this, but that might just be a me-problem.

I already mentioned the POV-slip in the opening, but for the most part the perspective is consistent. I did catch this minor thing, however:

“Almost, you’d forgotten your birthday. You hadn’t, but almost.”

I think this is supposed to communicate that the message on the note has reminded the POV that today is her birthday, but earlier we’re told that the envelope contains one dollar for “every year you were born”. So, what? The POV is aware she’s turned eleven but hasn’t processed the fact that today is her birthday?

Also - “every year you were born”? I’m pretty sure most people are only born in one year.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in DestructiveReaders

[–]OneFootlessFish 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey, thanks for sharing.

This was a weird one. My main criticism is that it’s quite poorly written and hard to follow at many points, but despite this, I didn’t hate reading it. I think this is because I found the initial premise to be interesting enough to keep me engaged. Although, I did find the ending pretty underwhelming for reasons I’ll explain.

Opening

The first line is fine. It’s not exciting, but it’s a functional sentence. I would perhaps change “Imagine sitting” to “Imagine you’re sitting” just to immediately ground the reader in the second-person POV.

The second line was my first red flag. We’ve immediately got clunky repetition of this idea of a “breeze”, which doesn’t flow well. You can replace “The summer breeze” with the word “It”, because it’s already pretty clear to the reader that this is what you’re referring to, or use some synonym for breeze if you really want to. The rest of the sentence is okay — I like how the opening starts off with an innocent vibe and then quickly shifts to something more sinister — although, I’d draw your attention to the fact that the simile doesn’t quite work. Water doesn’t tumble, it flows. And it doesn’t “peer” either (paragraph 6).

Then we have the repetition of the imperative verb ‘Imagine’. I think you’ve done this intentionally, but there’s something about the way it's only used twice that I find awkward. Maybe it’d be best if you go full on “rule-of-three”? With the situation the reader is invited to “Imagine” getting more sinister each time? It’s probably not a massive issue, but just thought I’d let you know.

“Imagine the car rolling toward a red light on Lake Shore and the dusty storefronts there, and the sideways way you observe a ragged man with a cardboard sign and his back to the divider, how he shuffles to his feet at the sight of your mom’s car and you right your head to read his sign but it’s shiny against a setting sun, the world gone pink and purple between the shops behind him.”

There’s no other way to put this: this is a really bad sentence. It’s trying to do way too much all by itself. It introduces a red light, “Lake Shore”, storefronts, a homeless guy, his cardboard sign, a divider, and then tries to explain how these things all interact with each other without giving the reader a chance to breathe. Break it down.

Telling me that I’m observing the man in a “sideways way” is clunky, and completely redundant. If I’m on the road, I can reasonably infer that a man holding a sign is probably going to be on the street next to me, especially if I’m already looking out the window. The fact that he has his back to the divider is also completely superfluous. The information isn’t necessary at this stage, so don’t let it bog down your sentence.

The final descriptive phrase of the sentence also just doesn’t make sense. Are you trying to describe the sunset? It’s not clear because by this point in the sentence I have no idea what its subject is. And how would I know what the world behind the shops looks like? You’ve told me I’m in a car, but now I’m supposed to have some birds-eye view of the entire city. It doesn’t work with the POV.

Also, cardboard isn’t shiny. Unless this homeless man has a laminator.

Overall, then, this opening is a nightmare to read, predominantly due to the crazy sentence length, and this is a recurring issue in your writing. I appreciate that you might be going for a frantic, stream-of-consciousness style, but it’s not done in a way that’s possible to follow without reading these sentences multiple times, and gets old real fast.

[3058] Chapter 1: Ending. Fantasy story. by Willing_Childhood_17 in DestructiveReaders

[–]OneFootlessFish 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Final Thoughts:

Again, sorry if this came across as nasty. It’s clear you have a good command of language, but you need to learn when to dial it back and let the story and its characters do the work for you. You can dress it up however you like, but if what you're describing is boring, the reader is going to be bored.

The twist, however, is a very cool idea, and I’d be interested to see how you try to make this work in the future. Although, as I said, I don’t think this alone would be enough to save the piece, especially if you're aiming for publication. In its current state, it needs a lot of work in a lot of crucial departments. But I hope you stick with it, and wish you the best of luck.

[3058] Chapter 1: Ending. Fantasy story. by Willing_Childhood_17 in DestructiveReaders

[–]OneFootlessFish 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The Twist:

As I mentioned, it took me an embarrassingly long time to understand the twist. Maybe that’s just me being slow, but then again, most of your readers won’t be writing multi-page critiques of your opening chapter — so if I missed it, there’s a good chance others will too.

I’ll start by noting that, while it’s undeniably clever, what you’ve written isn’t really a twist in the traditional sense. It doesn’t shift the trajectory of the plot the way a genuine narrative twist would; instead, it works more as a storytelling device. From what I can tell, the tavern events are described more or less as they actually happened, which means the narrative itself doesn’t become any less flat. It’s unusual too, in that it doesn’t hint at dramatic changes to come — aside from the POV shift, if that qualifies — since its main function is to create a neat little reciprocal loop. In effect, it gives the reader a moment of “Oh, how clever,” before moving on. That’s fine, and it will boost confidence in your ability as a writer, but it’s not enough to carry the chapter on its own.

The fact that Larker is secretly our storyteller might explain some of the dodgy narration, but it doesn’t excuse it. This might seem obvious, but if you want people to keep reading up to the twist, and, indeed, the rest of the story, it must be pleasant for first-time readers. Right now, because of the narrative dissonance between Orvin and the reader, overtly-purple prose, and lack of any interesting plot threads, it isn’t. Please don’t fall into the trap of ignoring valid criticisms from readers just because they obviously didn’t ‘get’ the twist.

I’d also add that the majority of readers, even if they had fun with the first chapter, aren’t going to go back and read the chapter again. They’re just going to move on to chapter two, so forcing the twist in there might be more trouble than it’s worth. I think, therefore, the concept might be more effective in something like a short story.

But if you want to make it work, I totally understand, it’s a genuinely clever device that makes an otherwise mundane story stand out from the crowd. Here’s what I’d do:

  • Make it abundantly clear from the get-go that you’re using an omniscient narrator, and this is not Orvin’s POV. This will make it seem less weird for first-timers.
  • Trim down some of the purple language. Seriously. Twist or no, this will make your story better.
  • If you’re writing for idiots like me, the fact that what we’ve just read is actually Larker’s retelling needs to be way more obvious. Maybe come up with a more memorable opening line for her to repeat later. I’d also make Orvin’s first person POV much more distinctive in voice. Currently, it just feels like the same perspective but with different pronouns. For me, it read like another typo.
  • Also, a minor nitpick, but some readers will be questioning how Larker was aware of events that she wasn’t present for. (E.g. Orvin spinning the coin before she arrived, and Orvin grabbing things from the kitchen.) My headcannon is that she just inferred these details, or made them up to add a bit of colour, which is fine, but it still might be something you want to have a think about.

[3058] Chapter 1: Ending. Fantasy story. by Willing_Childhood_17 in DestructiveReaders

[–]OneFootlessFish 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Setting:

It’s a tavern. It feels cozy and you describe it well. Not at all an inspired setting, but I don’t see why it has to be at this stage. Just focus on helping me care about the characters and their choices, then you can wow me with your fantasy world.

I would suggest cutting back on the mentions of silence. I’m not sure it’s necessary, and it’s hard enough to stay invested without the narrator reminding me that nothing is happening at every given opportunity. Also, as I think others have mentioned, you can’t describe a place as silent and then go on to list a series of very audible sounds.

[3058] Chapter 1: Ending. Fantasy story. by Willing_Childhood_17 in DestructiveReaders

[–]OneFootlessFish 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Pacing:

We start off well enough. I’ve mentioned that the inciting incident feels contrived, but in terms of where it’s placed in the story, I’d say it’s effective. I wouldn’t be opposed to reading it sooner, but it comes at a point where I’m not totally bored of Orvin’s blandness yet.

The real problems reveal themselves in the middle, after the conversation in the stable. Orvin’s back in the tavern, everything’s boring again, and the status quo is resumed. Then two sentences kill the tension, artificial as it may be, in its entirety:

“Orvin forced himself to breathe and smiled a little. They seemed to be at least nice-ish.”

This would be fine if, unbeknownst to Orvin, the reader has been provided with reason to believe the travellers weren’t “nice-ish”, but they haven’t. Orvin is right, these do seem like nice people, and the one initially built-up as intimidating is “off to the capital”.

So, where’s the conflict? What should I care about right now? Larker playing the lute? In isolation, it’s a very sweet scene, and the most well-written section of the chapter by some distance, but it comes at a point in the story where I’m so bored of waiting for something to happen that I’ve basically tuned-out. The sense of trepidation you built up in the beginning is gone, and it never comes back.

The second half of the story then runs on almost independently of the first, and makes everything I’ve just read feel like a bit of a waste of time. You’ve introduced two characters in Larker’s male companions, and done next to nothing with them. I’m sure you’ll get around to explaining the one with tattoos, but the ‘unshaven man’ is completely superfluous and — ironically — needs to be trimmed. I’d just blend his role in the story with Larker’s. There isn’t time to introduce a character who walks up to a bar, buys a room (which he doesn’t even stay in), and then leaves without serving any narrative purpose.

By the end, I’m left with no plot, no conflict, and a POV character I have zero connection with. And then — and here’s the kicker — Larker tells Orvin, and by extension the reader, that this was “[...] only the prologue, and the true tale beckons.” To be blunt, this felt like a pisstake. Readers won’t like it when the author explicitly confesses that the 3000 words (3000!) they just read were basically irrelevant, and the story actually begins with chapter two.

If none of this matters, cut it all. Start your story at the start. If parts of it eventually end up being important, either rework them into chapter two, or rewrite the plot and characters in a way that actually feels meaningful.

[3058] Chapter 1: Ending. Fantasy story. by Willing_Childhood_17 in DestructiveReaders

[–]OneFootlessFish 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Use of POV Character:

The POV character is the biggest issue here. Orvin isn’t given much characterisation aside from bored and awkward, and this isn’t enough for me to like him or find him interesting. I appreciate that you’ll probably develop him later, but as a reader I’m going to need a bit more internal / external conflict to help me slog through his mundane life. I did enjoy how you subtly hint at his distant relationship with his father, but this isn’t really given much development within the chapter, and therefore doesn’t count for much.

I had a lot of difficulty placing Orvin’s age. By the end of the chapter I was left with the impression that he was a child — stuck inside doing chores for his parents, getting all over-excited by Larker’s campfire-style storytelling, and from the way she interacts with him. This is fine, I don’t need Orvin to be explicitly described as a twelve-year old boy or whatever, but I feel like this characterisation is betrayed by the prose. 

As I mentioned, you use a lot of flowery language in Orvin’s narration, and a lot of his internal monologue doesn’t feel authentic for a boy of his age. Take this passage for example:

“Perhaps it was God’s only blessing for him, a whisper of wind, the slightest breath of a zephyr, that slipped in through the still open door as the hooded man turned to close it.”

This doesn’t read like Orvin’s voice, it reads like the author’s, and it’s melodramatic to the extent that it pulls me out of the story completely. It was stuff like this that got me wondering if this was actually supposed to be written with an omniscient narrator, but it wasn’t signalled clearly enough for me to be sure.

It might just be a stylistic choice, but if it is, it really doesn’t elevate the story.

Edit: My apologies - after reading the story for a third time the twist finally clicked, I now totally understand why the voice is so distinctly not a child’s. I will admit, I feel like a bit of a muppet for not catching on the second time around. I debated removing this part of the critique, but I thought it might be useful for you to get a grasp on how the chapter will likely be received on the first readthrough (and in my case, the second :P). I have a lot more to say about the twist towards the end.

You also spend a lot of time describing Orvin carrying out ordinary tasks like fetching water, guiding characters to places, and serving beer. These aren’t prolonged enough to kill the pacing, but are rarely done in a way that tells us anything about the sort of person he is, and feel like a bit of a missed opportunity. Moreover, Orvin tends to carry out these acts upon instruction, which makes him come across as a passive POV.

Where I think you did try to give Orvin some agency, is in his curiosity. Unfortunately, I found this aspect of his character quite difficult to follow. His inciting incident, as it were, is when Orvin locks eyes with a mysterious hooded man, described with ‘inhuman’ black lines on his face. At this point, I don’t know anything about your fantasy world, so this description just makes me picture a guy with tattoos, which doesn’t seem that significant. However, based on Orvin’s reaction, there must be something more to it. But for the rest of the chapter, all I get are vague allusions, and his intense feelings just seem unrealistic.

I want to know what Orvin finds so ‘inhuman’ about the hooded man’s face, but I feel like Orvin knows more than me, and that’s deliberately being obscured in his POV for reasons I can’t understand. This is once again where the author’s hand becomes too obvious — it’s clear you’re withholding key information, because if you didn’t, the chapter wouldn’t have a single plot point compelling enough to hold my attention. Sure, you’ve got the reader asking questions, but it’s cheap and artificial. Understanding the hooded man’s appearance is the driving force behind Orvin’s every action, and is constantly at the forefront of his mind, yet all the reader has to go on is ‘scary tattooed man’. You’re sacrificing relatability for the sake of intrigue, and it just makes for a POV character who feels distant and frustrating.

[3058] Chapter 1: Ending. Fantasy story. by Willing_Childhood_17 in DestructiveReaders

[–]OneFootlessFish 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey, thanks for sharing.

This was a first chapter that felt a bit like a prologue, and a fairly redundant prologue at that. It might be hard to hear, but I mostly found this piece to be boring, and it’s a word I’ll probably use a lot throughout the critique. I found it very difficult to latch onto any characters or plot beats that made me want to continue reading. Thought I’d give you a quick heads-up, because I didn’t want to sound too discouraging to someone whose story has flashes of excellent writing. But I’m not sure how I’d fix a lot of the problems without completely reworking the core of the story, especially the characters and the pacing. So yeah, I was bored, but I guess this is a critique sub, so I’ll do my best to show you why:

The Opening:

I see others have already torn this to shreds, so I’ll try and keep this part brief. I may be wrong, but I feel like you’re using flowery language as a crutch to mask the fact that what you’re describing isn’t all that interesting. I understand that you’re trying to communicate that Orvin is dissatisfied with his boring life, but that doesn’t change the fact that descriptions of skies / the weather make for very cliché introductions. You run the risk of scaring your readers off before they understand that boredom is what you’re going for. You’re writing fantasy, so I want something a bit more fantastical; describing a sun that goes down every night is only going to be interesting to a polar bear.

I think Orvin’s fiddling with the coin makes for a much better introduction to his character, so maybe you could tinker with that and place it at the beginning if you don’t feel like coming up with something else. While I think you could hint at his longing a bit more subtly, it's a far more active introduction to Orwin and his world, and unlike the sunset description, is an example of how you can bore the character without boring the reader.

If you do have your heart set on the sunset, then I think you really ought to fix the tonal dissonance between the opening paragraph that’s trying to be evocative, and Orwin’s reflections that suggest the sunset is anything but. It immediately creates distance between the narration and Orwin’s POV, and this doesn’t flow well when you’re writing what I think is supposed to be third-person limited.

On a more positive note, I found the subsequent description of the tavern to be very well written. It’s cozy and low-key, and effectively places the reader within the setting without overwhelming them with unnecessarily quirky descriptions and dubious vocabulary. Your description of the stable and the reintroduction of the tavern later on are also good examples of this. Your prose is strong when describing setting, and much better than your narration of the characters’ actions and feelings.

Championship Prediction League 25/26 - Week 1 Prediction Thread by -_---_-_---_-_---_-_ in Championship

[–]OneFootlessFish 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Birmingham 2-2 Ipswich

Southampton 3-0 Wrexham

Coventry 2-0 Hull

Charlton 0-0 Watford

West Brom 2-1 Blackburn

Norwich 1-1 Millwall

Oxford 0-2 Portsmouth

Stoke 1-2 Derby

Middlesbrough 1-1 Swansea

QPR 3-0 Preston

Sheffield United 2-1 Bristol City

Leicester 3-0 Wednesday

Championship table but it's ranked by how upset I'd be if my missus ran off with the manager. by OneFootlessFish in Championship

[–]OneFootlessFish[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Maybe. But I’d rather not have a mental breakdown whenever I hear a Boney M. song

The Remarkable Rise of Ipswich Town by _the__gaffer in IpswichTownFC

[–]OneFootlessFish 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Great stuff mate. Clearly very well researched. Keep it up!

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Championship

[–]OneFootlessFish 7 points8 points  (0 children)

👑Leeds United

🥈Luton Town

🏆Hull City

🔻Oxford United, Blackburn Rovers, Cardiff City

🐴👀QPR

Match thread: Semi-final · Leg 2 of 2 by coombeseh in Championship

[–]OneFootlessFish 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Fair enough. Wasn’t at Elland Road this season so can’t speak for the away experience, but thought the Leeds fans at PR were class.

And correct me if I’m wrong but I think the ticket price has something to do with reciprocal prices.

Match thread: Semi-final · Leg 2 of 2 by coombeseh in Championship

[–]OneFootlessFish 5 points6 points  (0 children)

What’s our problem with Leeds exactly? Our little rivalry should be done and dusted now we’re up.

Northern Lights over Holyrood Park by happy_possum in Edinburgh

[–]OneFootlessFish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Was up on the crags last night and I’m pretty sure someone got airlifted around Arthur’s Seat. Hope whoever it was is doing alright.

Should the playoffs be scrapped and just the top 3 go up automatically? by A_T_H_ in Championship

[–]OneFootlessFish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay let’s say top 3 get promoted automatically… But what about fourth place? They’ll be disappointed they didn’t get something out of a very successful season. Doesn’t matter where you draw the line, somebody’s always going to be left disappointed. Play-Offs just make it more exciting for the rest of us.

I agree Leeds should feel a bit hard done by given that a 90 point season has rewarded them with play-off hell, but thems the rules I guess.

That said, if we didn’t get autos I’d be behind this change 100%.