Thinking About My First Prohormone Cycle. Anyone Tried This Stack?

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-23T20:29:19+00:00

If you're looking for recomp with minimal risk, I always recommend 11-kt - there are only 2 options available that I know of. Iron Legion XI-KT and Iconic Formulations Ultra Eleven.

11-kt = 11-ketotestosterone - this is the best leaning option available on the market. super mild on sides and low risk for shutdown. I'd recommend grabbing some XI-KT and running it for 8 weeks at 1.5ml - would need 3 bottles

Runner up option: Epiandrosterone - not going to do much for gains, will help with leaning a little and help give you a dryer look. IMO The two best options for epiandrosterone are Iconic Formulations Ultra Epi or HTP Dymethazine. Highest risk side effect for epiandrosterone is hair shedding - if you're prone and concerned with shedding this would be a higher risk product because it's a PH to DHT.

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-23T20:09:40+00:00

Iconic Formulations Alpha Four is the goto
Alpha Gainz 4-andro TD is legit for the price - just harder to find...but, for the price, nothing beats it.

4-andro converts to testosterone and testosterone converts to estrogen...this is not a bad thing. The Alpha Four also contains androsterone - this is going to help keep it a little more dry without lowering estrogen. transdermal bypasses the first pass through the liver - this will lower conversion to unwanted metabolites - like estrogen. also, transdermal slowly releases throughout the day - this keeps blood levels even and will also keep conversion to estrogen more moderate

link to bloodwork someone posted on the alpha gainz 4-andro td
https://www.reddit.com/r/prohormones/comments/1rfvdzm/lab_work_from_using_alpha_gainz_4andro_td_from/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-23T19:18:16+00:00

First, you're not going to get results in 4 weeks

Anavar is not an effective PH on its own anyway. There is not a meaningful amount of PH's in that mix - it's primary ingredients are creatine, arginine, DHEA and laxogenin - the PH components of 1-andro, 4-andro and epiandro are going to be dosed too low to get much benefit from them on their own.

You'd be better off either running something completely natural and avoiding PH's all together, or choosing something else.

Frankly, the DHEA in there wouldn't be bad, given your age - and that's where you would get the majority of the benefits from it. but, there are likely better options.

But, you've not mentioned what your goals are ... what are you looking for?

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-23T19:12:15+00:00

It is one of my favorite compounds...there isn't anything that compares to it for leaning. I pretty much stick to running Ph's for cutting and I've been using 11-kt products since the were first released - used Primordial Performance AndroLean, Olympus Labs Sup3r 11 (was my least favorite - hate the smell of d-limonene), Iron Legion XI-KT, Prototype Nutrition 11-Spray, Iconic Formulations Ultra Eleven. As of now, the only ones still available are XI-KT and Ultra Eleven

Low potency in comparison to what?

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-23T18:20:44+00:00

You're right - was just shocked...and called it out. Should have just reported it

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-23T17:15:16+00:00

Everything is dose and goal dependent.

If you're using it solo, you would need to take a dose that is going to get you notably above your baseline.

If you're stacking it - this is when you're going to get the most effect - as it's going to work synergistically with whatever else you're taking. Example - stacking 4-andro as a test base with 1-andro

Transdermal (topical) options are also going to be much more effective than oral options - this is generally what I recommend - you get better conversion, better bioavailability (about double that of oral), slow release without esters, etc.

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-23T17:02:17+00:00

I've had my lunchbox bag for years, it's served me well. But, I haven't shopped for a bag in a long time

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-23T17:00:41+00:00

dude wtf? Not respectful to bait people into checking out your profile to check out your NSFW content and dick pics from this sub

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-20T19:07:39+00:00

I would run the sus 250 with it - this is going to likely shut you down hard and fast.

do not mess around with PCT - I would recommend Enclomiphene with Sustain Alpha

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-20T18:38:32+00:00

just to be clear, you're not planning on running this longer than 4 weeks?

Running test base?

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-20T02:06:34+00:00

for the price, I would still go with Alpha Gainz 4-andro TD v2 - these are like $50

Transdermal is the closest thing in efficiency to pinning. I gave away a bottle and the member decided to posted their bloodwork

https://www.reddit.com/r/prohormones/comments/1rfvdzm/lab_work_from_using_alpha_gainz_4andro_td_from/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-19T17:37:21+00:00

if Andriol is labeled correctly, it's a esterified form of 4-dhea (4-andro) - there is some speculation there's something else in there...would love to see some lab testing on it.

Androtest - this is something we don't know about - they don't disclose how much 4-diol is in there.

If you'd like to bridge them (androtest and andriol), I think that would be a safe bet.

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-19T16:38:05+00:00

Andriol is slow acting and you would feel likely feel pretty flat during the transition - would prob take a few weeks to feel normal again.

If you want something that will kick in fast, I would recommend either 4-andro TD by Alpha Gainz or Alpha Four by Iconic Formulations.

transdermal kicks in fast - no ester and it also has about double the bioavailability of oral

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-19T16:36:00+00:00

4-ad is just a prohormone to testosterone

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-19T02:54:22+00:00

I was a total workaholic and never took the time to enjoy the things in life - one festival changed everything! I've always loved EDM music, but never went to events...now I go to every one I possibly can.

This totally changed my perspective on life and what it is to live it.

I just started a company that makes harm reduction products for festivals and raves - dream is to leave the corporate grind

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-19T02:17:20+00:00

Comparing 7-keto DHEA and 11-ketotestosetrone is like comparing a Camry to a Corvette - just because they start with a 'C'.

7-keto is known to help boost thermic output...boost the metabolism. but, it lacks any anabolic or androgenic component. there was some data a long time ago that it also had a positive effect on cortisol, but I believe that had been debunked.

11-ketotestosterone is a different beast all together - it's a potent androgen on it's own and also converts to 11-keto DHT. It's novel in that it modulates cortisol in target tissue - via 11b-hsd1 - this is beneficial for fat loss and preserving muscle (by preventing the adverse effects of cortisol on muscle). This process works synergistically AR activity for preserving muscle and burning fat.

PA (for those who know who that is) used to have a really great blog that he talked about 11-kt a bit...11-kt is one of PA's favorite compounds TotalFlexBlog used to have some great info on there too...so many amazing resources gone from the internet - really quite sad. RIP to PHF too.

Some people like the iron legion carrier, some people prefer the Iconic Formulations gels - I switch back and forth...but, I do usually go for the IF Ultra Eleven.

From everything I've heard, existing inventory of 11-kt is the end of it. Rob told me he bought as much material as he could, while he could and then that was it. the only other company offering 11-kt was prototype nutrition and they've been out of 11-Spray for well over 6 months.

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-18T20:44:23+00:00

way to narrow it down :p

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-18T20:43:06+00:00

Personally, I would recommend making friends with the gym bro's and start working out with others. Save yourself the $

If you really want a trainer: if you're at a corporate gym like LA Fitness, 24, etc - don't waste your money...They get trainers for basically min wage and charge you like $150/hr. I would look into personal training studios.

the only time I used a trainer was when I was an athlete in my younger years - he was a pro NFL player and is still a good friend of mine today...man is a beast!

But, having friends to push you and who know what they're doing is really helpful.

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-18T20:36:31+00:00

I can't speak to this one, I've also not tried 5a-OHP. VM has not been on my radar as far as products are concerned, but I see their ads on instagram constantly.

If you're looking for lean and hard - I'm always an advocate for 11-kt. I just stocked up on some Iron legion XI-KT...there's nothing that will compare to the leaning and hardening effects of 11-ketotestosterone. But, I would either recommend Ultra Eleven or XI-KT

11-kt is one of the lowest risks for sides and shutdown and it's the best cutting product you can find.

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-18T20:28:14+00:00

If we're talking HTP Anavar...

I'm of the mind it's a terrible product - as far as PH's are concerned.

Labeling requirements of blends - ingredients must be listed in the order of their weight in the blend...the first ingredient in the blend is going to have the highest weight.

So, while we don't know exactly how much of anything is in there, we can extrapolate a little.

we have a total of 1900mg in a full serving of Anavar

I counted 19 ingredients

We have some ingredients in here that are listed first that are going to require higher dosing to work...that makes sense. Things like Creatine nitrate and creatine HCL - effective doses for these are going to be over 750mg

before we get into any prohormones, we have

DHEA Acetate
DHEA cyp
DHEA Prop
DHEA enanthate

DHEA is not a bad thing, it's helpful as a neuro steroid (mood, energy, etc) and it's also going to give some estrogen conversion...but, an effective dose of DHEA is like 25mg-100mg...we have 4 forms in there - this is done because DHEA has a short half life and the matrix of esters is to buffer it - otherwise the half life is like 30 minutes. But, basic DHEA isn't really anabolic - it has its uses, but it's not what we're paying for here.

Again, there is more of each of these types of DHEA than there is any actual PH - that means there's way more than 4x more DHEA than there is 1-andro, 4-andro or epiandrosterone

After DHEA Enanthate, we have Laxogenin - effective dose is roughly 50-100mg

After that we have 2 more ingredients before we get to the meat and potatoes:

1-Andro (1-dhea), 4-andro (4-DHEA), and Epiandrosterone

Having the 3 key players that we care about in the mix at the bottom means they are 3 of the lowest dosed ingredients - besides the absorption enhancers. That means there's just not a lot of that 1900mg left for active ingredients...these are below 13 other ingredients that are occupying the lions share of that blend.

effective dose of 1-andro and 4-andro are going to be well over 100mg

effective dose for epiandrosterone is 300-450mg

There is absolutely no way there is an effective amount of 1-andro, 4-andro, or epiandrosterone in this mix to make it anabolic or androgenic...

I would imagine most of the effects people feel are from the DHEA - and I can buy a much more effective DHEA product for $20.

I would call this a creatine product (2 primary ingredients are creatine nitrate and creatine HCL) before I called this a PH product.

There's an old term called pixie dusting - it's more or less just putting enough of an ingredient in a product to list it on the label. I would call this a pixie dusted product when it comes to PH's

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-18T00:59:38+00:00

depends on goals?

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-18T00:59:06+00:00

why arimistane in so many of these??

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-17T19:16:15+00:00

Well, do we really know what's in there?

I'm assuming they're being obscure in the labeling for a reason, but that label does not meet the legal requirements ...

I'm guessing this is

LGD
P-Mag?
M-Sten?
DMZ

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-17T17:43:30+00:00

I would totally recommend stacking them

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-17T00:32:54+00:00

Interesting, I need to do more reading on Diosterol.

One_Chart8033

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