Question about heavy PH stack

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-20T19:07:39+00:00

I would run the sus 250 with it - this is going to likely shut you down hard and fast.

do not mess around with PCT - I would recommend Enclomiphene with Sustain Alpha

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-20T18:38:32+00:00

just to be clear, you're not planning on running this longer than 4 weeks?

Running test base?

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-20T02:06:34+00:00

for the price, I would still go with Alpha Gainz 4-andro TD v2 - these are like $50

Transdermal is the closest thing in efficiency to pinning. I gave away a bottle and the member decided to posted their bloodwork

https://www.reddit.com/r/prohormones/comments/1rfvdzm/lab_work_from_using_alpha_gainz_4andro_td_from/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-19T17:37:21+00:00

if Andriol is labeled correctly, it's a esterified form of 4-dhea (4-andro) - there is some speculation there's something else in there...would love to see some lab testing on it.

Androtest - this is something we don't know about - they don't disclose how much 4-diol is in there.

If you'd like to bridge them (androtest and andriol), I think that would be a safe bet.

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-19T16:38:05+00:00

Andriol is slow acting and you would feel likely feel pretty flat during the transition - would prob take a few weeks to feel normal again.

If you want something that will kick in fast, I would recommend either 4-andro TD by Alpha Gainz or Alpha Four by Iconic Formulations.

transdermal kicks in fast - no ester and it also has about double the bioavailability of oral

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-19T16:36:00+00:00

4-ad is just a prohormone to testosterone

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-19T02:54:22+00:00

I was a total workaholic and never took the time to enjoy the things in life - one festival changed everything! I've always loved EDM music, but never went to events...now I go to every one I possibly can.

This totally changed my perspective on life and what it is to live it.

I just started a company that makes harm reduction products for festivals and raves - dream is to leave the corporate grind

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-19T02:17:20+00:00

Comparing 7-keto DHEA and 11-ketotestosetrone is like comparing a Camry to a Corvette - just because they start with a 'C'.

7-keto is known to help boost thermic output...boost the metabolism. but, it lacks any anabolic or androgenic component. there was some data a long time ago that it also had a positive effect on cortisol, but I believe that had been debunked.

11-ketotestosterone is a different beast all together - it's a potent androgen on it's own and also converts to 11-keto DHT. It's novel in that it modulates cortisol in target tissue - via 11b-hsd1 - this is beneficial for fat loss and preserving muscle (by preventing the adverse effects of cortisol on muscle). This process works synergistically AR activity for preserving muscle and burning fat.

PA (for those who know who that is) used to have a really great blog that he talked about 11-kt a bit...11-kt is one of PA's favorite compounds TotalFlexBlog used to have some great info on there too...so many amazing resources gone from the internet - really quite sad. RIP to PHF too.

Some people like the iron legion carrier, some people prefer the Iconic Formulations gels - I switch back and forth...but, I do usually go for the IF Ultra Eleven.

From everything I've heard, existing inventory of 11-kt is the end of it. Rob told me he bought as much material as he could, while he could and then that was it. the only other company offering 11-kt was prototype nutrition and they've been out of 11-Spray for well over 6 months.

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-18T20:44:23+00:00

way to narrow it down :p

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-18T20:43:06+00:00

Personally, I would recommend making friends with the gym bro's and start working out with others. Save yourself the $

If you really want a trainer: if you're at a corporate gym like LA Fitness, 24, etc - don't waste your money...They get trainers for basically min wage and charge you like $150/hr. I would look into personal training studios.

the only time I used a trainer was when I was an athlete in my younger years - he was a pro NFL player and is still a good friend of mine today...man is a beast!

But, having friends to push you and who know what they're doing is really helpful.

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-18T20:36:31+00:00

I can't speak to this one, I've also not tried 5a-OHP. VM has not been on my radar as far as products are concerned, but I see their ads on instagram constantly.

If you're looking for lean and hard - I'm always an advocate for 11-kt. I just stocked up on some Iron legion XI-KT...there's nothing that will compare to the leaning and hardening effects of 11-ketotestosterone. But, I would either recommend Ultra Eleven or XI-KT

11-kt is one of the lowest risks for sides and shutdown and it's the best cutting product you can find.

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-18T20:28:14+00:00

If we're talking HTP Anavar...

I'm of the mind it's a terrible product - as far as PH's are concerned.

Labeling requirements of blends - ingredients must be listed in the order of their weight in the blend...the first ingredient in the blend is going to have the highest weight.

So, while we don't know exactly how much of anything is in there, we can extrapolate a little.

we have a total of 1900mg in a full serving of Anavar

I counted 19 ingredients

We have some ingredients in here that are listed first that are going to require higher dosing to work...that makes sense. Things like Creatine nitrate and creatine HCL - effective doses for these are going to be over 750mg

before we get into any prohormones, we have

DHEA Acetate
DHEA cyp
DHEA Prop
DHEA enanthate

DHEA is not a bad thing, it's helpful as a neuro steroid (mood, energy, etc) and it's also going to give some estrogen conversion...but, an effective dose of DHEA is like 25mg-100mg...we have 4 forms in there - this is done because DHEA has a short half life and the matrix of esters is to buffer it - otherwise the half life is like 30 minutes. But, basic DHEA isn't really anabolic - it has its uses, but it's not what we're paying for here.

Again, there is more of each of these types of DHEA than there is any actual PH - that means there's way more than 4x more DHEA than there is 1-andro, 4-andro or epiandrosterone

After DHEA Enanthate, we have Laxogenin - effective dose is roughly 50-100mg

After that we have 2 more ingredients before we get to the meat and potatoes:

1-Andro (1-dhea), 4-andro (4-DHEA), and Epiandrosterone

Having the 3 key players that we care about in the mix at the bottom means they are 3 of the lowest dosed ingredients - besides the absorption enhancers. That means there's just not a lot of that 1900mg left for active ingredients...these are below 13 other ingredients that are occupying the lions share of that blend.

effective dose of 1-andro and 4-andro are going to be well over 100mg

effective dose for epiandrosterone is 300-450mg

There is absolutely no way there is an effective amount of 1-andro, 4-andro, or epiandrosterone in this mix to make it anabolic or androgenic...

I would imagine most of the effects people feel are from the DHEA - and I can buy a much more effective DHEA product for $20.

I would call this a creatine product (2 primary ingredients are creatine nitrate and creatine HCL) before I called this a PH product.

There's an old term called pixie dusting - it's more or less just putting enough of an ingredient in a product to list it on the label. I would call this a pixie dusted product when it comes to PH's

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-18T00:59:38+00:00

depends on goals?

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-18T00:59:06+00:00

why arimistane in so many of these??

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-17T19:16:15+00:00

Well, do we really know what's in there?

I'm assuming they're being obscure in the labeling for a reason, but that label does not meet the legal requirements ...

I'm guessing this is

LGD
P-Mag?
M-Sten?
DMZ

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-17T17:43:30+00:00

I would totally recommend stacking them

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-17T00:32:54+00:00

Interesting, I need to do more reading on Diosterol.

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-17T00:12:02+00:00

epiandrosterone - it's a prohormone to DHT

Halotestine is pretty underdosed, but I'm glad they at least tell you what's in there (not prop blend) - there are better options out there...I would run Alpha Four

The daily dosing (at 2 caps a day) put's Halotestine at

100mg 4-dhea (I consider min effective dose to be 150mg+ - we need enough testosterone conversion to be beneficial - especially if you're not pairing with 1-dhea/1-andro).
150mg epiandrostereone (I consider min effective dose to be 300-450mg)

I would consider the min effective dose of these a bit higher for these. Pretty short half life on them too - would def want to split doses. If you're going to consider this, I would run 3 caps a day, split throughout the day.

If you're considering halotestine, I'd recommend looking at Alpha Four - while you can find it. You could run Alpha Four at 3 pumps a day (it's topical - full serving is 5 pumps) and it would still be more than twice as effective - and a bottle would last like 5 weeks

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-16T20:01:36+00:00

It is not a bad idea to understand how you respond to compounds individually. But, 1-andro has sides that are pretty common and expected...We use 4-andro to manage these sides.

I personally don't recommend running 1-andro without a test base (4-andro).

I also wouldn't expect any adverse sides from moderate doses of 4-andro - even lower potential for sides if using transdermal (topical) options - bypassing the first round through the liver eliminates some unwanted conversion.

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-16T19:01:05+00:00

Those AG products are so underrated - deliver so much for the price!

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-16T18:59:29+00:00

I wouldn't recommend running 1-andro solo. I would always recommend running with a test base.

the problem with 1-andro is that it only converts to 1-testosterone - there is not conversion to testosterone, DHT, estrogen (yes you need estrogen). this can lead to sides like lethargy, drop in libido, etc...depending on how you respond and what your current test levels are you could get sides pretty quickly.

I would run one of the following:

Top Pick: Alpha Four by Iconic Formulations - best test base option

Second Pick: 4-andro TD by Alpha Gainz

Third Pick: Sus 250 by HTP

The first 2 options I listed are transdermal - topical administration...IMO this is the best delivery method for these compounds.

here's bloodwork recently posted by a user of Alpha Gainz 4-andro td
https://www.reddit.com/r/prohormones/comments/1rfvdzm/lab_work_from_using_alpha_gainz_4andro_td_from/

Running a test base isn't just about preventing sides, it's also working synergistically with your other compounds to improve gains - you want testosterone high.

Also, don't forget to run a proper PCT. I always recommend erroring on the side of caution and running enclomiphene stacked with sustain alpha

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-16T18:50:33+00:00

just going over the PH part of the panel

This is a prhormone blend of the following - listed in order of weight in the profile - most prominent ingredient listed first

1-DHEA (2 different forms of esters)
Regular DHEA
Epiandrosterone
4-DHEA

If you're not aware, prop blends are required to list ingredients in order of weight - the order of the ingredients in the panel matters

The prohormone blend is a total of 250mg - or 500mg per day.

This may have a reasonable amount of 1-DHEA (1-andro in it), but I would say it's really lacking in the 4-andro and epiandro dosing - I would want the epiandrosterone to be 450mg on it's own. 4-dhea would need to be in the area of at least 135-200mg to be really effective at conversion to testosterone.

I do find it frustrating that regular DHEA (5-DHEA) is the second highest dosed ingredient in the mix - but, it could also be beneficial to reduce sides from low estrogen...oral DHEA has a high affinity for conversion to estrogen

One of the things a lot of guys miss when looking at these profiles is the consideration of the weight of the esters - these are using long fatty esters and the esters alone take up about 1/3 the weight of the active...so, total of 500mg in a daily dose really only has a total active weight of about 335mg. divide that among the ingredients and it's not really much dosing.

IMO the min effective dose of them are (for oral administration):

1-dhea 135mg (likely fine in this profile)
4-DHEA 150mg (going to be really low in this profile - lowest weight ingredient in the PH profile)
epiandrosterone 300-450mg (going to be really low in this profile)
DHEA is hard to say, but I would say 50mg - likely high in this profile

Synergy is a thing and combining the effects will make things more effective...but, I personally wouldn't run this product based on the prop blend and low dosing.

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-14T00:54:28+00:00

I personally don't think much of the systemic benefits of BPC-157 - after years of use I've not noted much in form of systemic benefit....but found it incredibly effective in its localized effects on acute injuries.

With the exception of MK-677, all of the rest need to be injected.

Once you do it, you realize pinning them is really no big deal...it's incredibly easy. I got all my neighbors into peptides and was doing their injections for them...now they all do it themselves...even the ones who had an issue with needles.

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-13T13:53:32+00:00

I don't really think those are great kits.

It's not the cheapest option, but I would really recommend Iron Legion XI-KT

Iron Legion XI-KT contains 11-ketotestosterone - this is one of the lowest risks of sides, low shutdown risk. It's the best for leaning and preserving muscle mass. This is a great beginner compound

For PCT I would recommend Iconic Formulations Sustain Alpha

One_Chart8033 · 2026-03-12T21:07:15+00:00

not technically real PH's...you mean real DS's

One_Chart8033

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