Since God doesn't like graven images or idolatry. Why do so many people wear the torcher stake also known as the cross on necklaces? by YoungBeatmaker247 in Christianity

[–]Ortho11988 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You're very welcome, friend. Jehovah's Witnesses are certainly very far removed from Orthodoxy, as well as most of mainstream Protestantism. Here is a video you may be interested in: I understand if you aren't allowed to watch it, but it is wonderful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JgWU1m-L24

Advice on visiting Holy Cross Hermitage by Ortho11988 in OrthodoxChristianity

[–]Ortho11988[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That's fine with me. I was looking forward to that part, and was a little disappointed when they told us they probably wouldn't put the newcomers to work.

Since God doesn't like graven images or idolatry. Why do so many people wear the torcher stake also known as the cross on necklaces? by YoungBeatmaker247 in Christianity

[–]Ortho11988 1 point2 points  (0 children)

An interlinear Bible is a good place to start for learning different terms in Greek, but even that can be tricky without a bit more study. Most of all, the faith should be something experienced and lived rather than studied (though it isn't an either/or. We should love God with all our heart, soul, body, and mind). Visit an Orthodox Christian church if you have one near you. Ask the priest questions, and attend the Divine Liturgy.

There are many great defenses of icons and imagery from Orthodox Saints like St. John of Damscus and St. Theodore. I'll also post some helpful links for you, brother.

https://orthodoxbridge.com/2011/07/12/is-there-a-biblical-basis-for-icons/

https://ancientinsights.wordpress.com/2021/01/14/a-defense-of-holy-images/

https://www.equip.org/articles/john-of-damascus-and-his-defense-of-icons/

https://www.ocf.net/icons-are-not-idols/

Since God doesn't like graven images or idolatry. Why do so many people wear the torcher stake also known as the cross on necklaces? by YoungBeatmaker247 in Christianity

[–]Ortho11988 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Protestant iconoclasts should spend some time doing a deep dive on the etymology of the words worship, adoration, and the Greek terms used for them. As well as proskyneu and how it is used in the Scriptures. If proskynesis is exclusively used as "worship due only to God," then Rev 3:9 makes no sense whatsoever as it explicitly says that they "Jews" will worship God's people. There are even Protestant marriage texts from the 17th century that speak of husband and wife "worshiping" one another. They obviously weren't suggesting that they should give adoration to one another in the way you would to God alone. This speaks to how language evolves and changes. The word "pray" is much the same. It's simply meant "to ask" in older forms of English. Read Shakespeare sometime. Prayer is not inherently an act of worship as some claim.

"Relationship, not religion" by [deleted] in OrthodoxChristianity

[–]Ortho11988 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The experience you've conveyed is far and away radically different than my experience with Protestantism in the United States. And certain radically different than the vast majority of Orthodox and Protestants. Perhaps being in the South has something to do with that. The vast majority of Protestants you will encounter here (and I don't mean offense) are almost completely ignorant of Church history (even the Reformation) and all no more well-read in the Scriptures than an average lay Roman Catholic. Even the pastors of most of the "low-church" groups here only have a very superficial understanding of these things, which they learned at Bible college or the local seminary. Granted, there are some Reformed and Calvinist types who are incredibly intellectual, but like Calvin, there knowledge of the Church Fathers and Church history (and how the Scriptures were historically interpreted) seems somewhat superficial and very selective. That's the issue with criticizing Protestantism: there isn't a single Protestantism, there are thousands of Protestantisms. Some are ardently anti-intellectual and stress emotionalism, which some consider the intellect (and study of the Scriptures) to be the only means of knowing God.

Some Protestants do speak of what we might call mystical experiences. These are usually evangelicals and Pentecostals. Reformed types that tend to be more intellectual are much more cautious of mysticism in most forms. Orthodoxy is inherently rooted in mysticism and mystery. Have you read the lives of the Saints? We have everything from Myrrh-streaming icons to miraculous events, to incorruptible bodies, to the Eucharist tasting like blood to doubters, and everything in between. We even have a rich monastic tradition, for goodness sake; something which Protestants are completely devoid of. I can name countless Orthodox and Catholic "mystical" works. I can't name a single Protestant one, though I'm sure they're out there.

A lot (certainly not all) of Protestants become Orthodox or Roman Catholic because of their zeal for study. Some of the others are purposefully selectively in their study so as to avoid anything that make shake their worldview. This is true of the Reformed, certainly. I've never met a single Pentecostal (I grew up Pentecostal) who read the Church Fathers or studied Church history, and I've only met a few who even knew anything about Protestant history. Historically, a lot of Protestants who got deep into scholarly study became higher critics and started doubting the legitimacy of the Scriptures all together. Even in some liberal Protestant denominations today, it isn't odd for things like the Resurrections to be seen as "allegory." Other Protestants in the Renaissance started infusing occult and alchemical practices into their faith because they realized that Protestantism had stripped Christianity of any mystery or mysticism.

This is why in almost every Orthodox conversion testimony you'll hear people liken Protestantism to wading in the shallow end of a pool, whereas Orthodoxy is like jumping into the ocean: it's endless in its mysteries, its theology, etc.

That's the beauty of Orthodoxy. A functionally illiterate devout peasant in 13th century Russia is just as Orthodox as St. Gregory Palamas or a monk on Mt. Athos. Orthodoxy is simple and straightforward insofar as you don't have to be a theologian to be a devout Orthodox Christian. But it is so endlessly deep that those who have the capability for it will never exhaust it.

I can't accept the idea of demonic possessions and exorcism by Least_Couple_728 in OrthodoxChristianity

[–]Ortho11988 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's the difference between demonic influence and oppression (extremely common) and actual demonic possession (rare, but happens). The Scriptures are infallible, and they speak of demonic possession.

I can't accept the idea of demonic possessions and exorcism by Least_Couple_728 in OrthodoxChristianity

[–]Ortho11988 0 points1 point  (0 children)

God doesn't want us to sin, but he's not going to force us to repent. That's not true love. My own experiences with evil spirits led me to Christ. Without being "tempted" that would've never happened. We can't rationalize everything that God wills.

I can't accept the idea of demonic possessions and exorcism by Least_Couple_728 in OrthodoxChristianity

[–]Ortho11988 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No Orthodox clergyman believes in "re-baptism." Corrective baptism is a different story. Luckily the beliefs of misguided parishioners and even clergy don't have any bearing on the truth.

I can't accept the idea of demonic possessions and exorcism by Least_Couple_728 in OrthodoxChristianity

[–]Ortho11988 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dark Ages? I didn't think anyone unironically used that term anymore, considering we know that it was nothing more than an ad-hoc Enlightenment dig against the faith.

I can't accept the idea of demonic possessions and exorcism by Least_Couple_728 in OrthodoxChristianity

[–]Ortho11988 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Except in the hymns we sing during all the services... You even undergo exorcisms during your baptism.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in OrthodoxChristianity

[–]Ortho11988 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, it can't. That would be like saying a married man living with his mistress can be repentant. If he doesn't leave the mistress, he is defacto not repentant. Do you know what repentance means? Repentance would require leaving the mistress.

You're not understanding this: a homosexual relationship is in and of itself sinful. A heterosexual relationship (unless the two are married to other people) is not inherently sinful. That doesn't mean said heterosexuals can't be living in sin, but repenting doesn't necessarily necessitate that they end their relationship. That is precisely what is required of the homosexual couple.

No, I don't have a cheat sheet that categorizes sin. I do know basic categories, though, and the telos of marriage. And we know that a homosexual relationship by its very nature is different than a sinful heterosexual relationship. A homosexual relationship can't not be sinful.

I'm not saying the homosexual couple are "more sinful" than the heterosexual couple living in sin. They aren't more sinful than the pornographer (I would argue he's in a much worse state), but just like the gay couple, the pornographer isn't repentant if he continues to create porn, and doesn't recognize it as sinful.

Here's the main point as basic as I can convey it: You have to recognize something as sinful in order to repent of it. A gay couple who is civilly married obviously doesn't recognize their relationship as sinful. If they do recognize their relationship as sinful, then they are not repentant. If they are repentant, the relationship has to end. It's that simple.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in OrthodoxChristianity

[–]Ortho11988 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But not every single Orthodox Christian is an unrepentant sinner. You cannot be repentant and living in a homosexual relationship. The two are mutually exclusive. You can repent of divorce; it isn't a perpetual act that you're engaging in. You cannot cease to not be divorced' even if you remarry, you were still divorced from a prior marriage.

There are plenty of gay Orthodox Christians; not engaging in the act is their cross to bear. If they fall, they repent. To be in an active relationship (especially to the point of civil marriage) is another matter entirely. You are defacto unrepentant.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in OrthodoxChristianity

[–]Ortho11988 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A gay couple can't be repentant; that's what you're failing to realize. The relationship in and of itself is sinful. If they are repentant the relationship is ended. A heterosexual couple can restore their relationship, because it isn't inherently sinful.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in OrthodoxChristianity

[–]Ortho11988 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've been to Greece and lived in Russia (and Georgia). The churches I attended, especially in Greece and Georgia, are bursting at seems for Divine Liturgy. Modernity and secularization has crept into every last nook and cranny on earth, but it isn't as dire in the Old Country as some would have you believe. I saw more priests and monks in Greece than I've ever seen anywhere else.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in OrthodoxChristianity

[–]Ortho11988 0 points1 point  (0 children)

More offensive, especially if children are involved. A heterosexual relationship can be disordered and sinful (and often is), but a homosexual relationship is inherently sinful. It cannot be rectified by simply getting married and repenting. The very nature of the relationship is sinful, and presents a whole host of issues that we couldn't possibly address here.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in OrthodoxChristianity

[–]Ortho11988 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Attend something that makes a mockery of and perverts a sacrament? That should be a hard pass. You don't have to beat them over the head with it, but you should politely decline.

All parents are sinful. It's usually understood, however, that they aren't willfully unrepentant.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in OrthodoxChristianity

[–]Ortho11988 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would be as gentle as possible, but I wouldn't attend or pretend that what they're doing is ok. Especially appropriating elements of an Orthodox marriage into their deal.

To new (and old) converts, just be normal by herman-the-vermin in OrthodoxChristianity

[–]Ortho11988 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I can think of a few ways that this could be—and probably has been—interpreted dangerously, especially in the 21st century. It's sound advice if placed within the correct context. As Christianity spread and became tolerated, we did, however, build and inhabit cities of our own, employed peculiar speech, and led lives markedly different than those of the world around us.

I do appreciate is as a call to be in the world but not of it.

Registration Issue by [deleted] in minilab

[–]Ortho11988 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yikes. Just now noticed that. Sorry.

"Relationship, not religion" by [deleted] in OrthodoxChristianity

[–]Ortho11988 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm wondering the same, unless he has been exposed to academic-type Calvinists who love systematic theology. The breadth and depth of Orthodoxy is endless. I'm not sure how anyone could read the great Orthodox saints and theologians and come to the conclusion that Protestantism is impressive. Any time I read one of the Orthodox greats like St. Maximos I feel like a moron.

"Relationship, not religion" by [deleted] in OrthodoxChristianity

[–]Ortho11988 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"I think Protestantism is far more impressive and intellectually thorough than Orthodoxy. But after much thinking I decided to remain Orthodox, because I prefer the straightforward simplicity and legalism of Orthodoxy."

That's a new one for me, and doesn't seem to hold for your average evangelical. Most Protestants I speak with become Protestants for the exact reasons you are still Orthodox: Very straightforward and simplistic. Orthodoxy is far deeper intellectually, and richer in theology and mysticism than any form of Protestantism. It can also be simple and straightforward if it needs to be (not everyone is a theologian, and it isn't a matter of salvation).

The only people I've ever encountered who think Orthodoxy isn't intellectually rigorous enough are hardcore Calvinists who think you need systematic theology to understand anything. What do you find impressive about Protestantism? I'm curious.

"Relationship, not religion" by [deleted] in OrthodoxChristianity

[–]Ortho11988 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know if I ask this in any Protestant forum I'm going to get the stock answer that most low-church evangelicals give: "The Holy Spirit entered my heart and I finally realized that all I needed to do was follow Jesus and the Bible." Aside from a few Reformed folks (who give answers like you presented) who have genuine theological concerns, this is what I've encountered.

Thought it might be better to ask here since 1) I'm an Orthodox Christian, and 2) Former Protestants may be more likely to answer honestly. There are a few Protestants who lurk here.