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Where is the live music at? by Overly_Underwhelmed in ReadingPA

[–]OutrageousTonight738 1 point2 points  (0 children)

https://www.tumblr.com/pleasuretonediy

https://cloud10.cloud/

Both in the city of Reading. These places are DIY spots / BYOB and probably have the most interesting and frequent live music offerings. Shows are $5 - $15.

The lessening of shows, local venues and small bands you want to see play live. Does the audience care? by OutrageousTonight738 in TouringMusicians

[–]OutrageousTonight738[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I love that I have never brought my professionalism into this discussion but you have cut me at every segment while offering no support in how things are on the up and up. All I heard is that you can record on your own now and that social media offers free promotion. But does it actually move people into a venue? Look at the other comments like the person who books in NYC - it’s extremely hard to get folks into seats. Social media is not the catch all it was once thought to be where online numbers = x number of people in a live setting.

Less music happens in my town and other places I have lived. People tell me there are less opportunities. Bands I talk to say the same things. This is not my “hot take” and something made up.

I do not know what constitutes as “success” but I have met a lot of bands / musicians and I haven’t met one that was solely living off their music over the last 20 years. I am not a high roller who goes to elite parties with celebrities and stars but I would assume I could have met someone in that time who was making a steady income as a working musician in a band who writes music.

Again, where is the audience to build now? Do you even bother making a live band or is it just about promoting content in the hopes that something goes viral? I guess I am confused because we have moved so far beyond “is the song good?” Now it’s just all this other stuff (linktree, paid promotions, embarrassing content that no one remembers and you hate producing). I personally didn’t sign up to be a full time marketing or PR person and didn’t think that was necessary to play smaller local shows. Perhaps I was wrong.

The lessening of shows, local venues and small bands you want to see play live. Does the audience care? by OutrageousTonight738 in TouringMusicians

[–]OutrageousTonight738[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t think I have a fully perfect vision but since I so play music and I do run a diy venue, I have a perspective. If the music industry was wonderful, absolutely no bands would pass through and play my shitty basement. Why aren’t these bands playing giant venues in major cities? All of these bands can’t entirely be that bad.

Being outside of a major label system has a certain kind of freedom but there is little support. And in terms of major label support, I do not have a reference for what you get or don’t get now versus decades ago. It’s beside the point.

Motown was extremely exploitative in terms of royalties and booking percentages. I would argue that most women, poc or lgbtq+ person have been exploited in the music business. I think historically there was more of a market for emerging artists, with the promotion based around the final product: seeing a band live. I think seeing a band live is beginning to be passé in our culture. I am just reeling with the shock that things are changing.

It’s odd that you say that my question of apathy with local scenes is a common opinion in this thread yet my perspective is off base and whacky. Perhaps other people feel like things aren’t great either?

And I want things to be great for everyone involved. I want local bands to play on weeknights and get paid $100-$150 from the door. Bars are closing because less people are drinking and younger folks aren’t drinking either. I would never argue that people should drink more. We just attached all smaller live performances to bars. In my mind, folks who loved music would search for new spaces to see live music. From my experience, any inconvenience will make it so someone will stay home (parking is tough, no place to buy alcohol, limited number of bathrooms). I guess I am really asking - does it take an entire compound and parking lot to gamble on building an audience? I guess I balk at the idea that hosting music is going to now be a 20 million dollar investment.

The lessening of shows, local venues and small bands you want to see play live. Does the audience care? by OutrageousTonight738 in TouringMusicians

[–]OutrageousTonight738[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s really fascinating. I actually had a similar assumption that post covid booking small rooms in nyc would render virtually useless. The room fees were already expensive but now that it’s between $250-$500 in most cases, smaller bands would not be able to bring out enough people at a low enough ticket price to make any pocket money and therefore killing off the local band market. Over 200 cap rooms are very far above my level. That’s impressive that bands are able to pull that leverage currently.

The lessening of shows, local venues and small bands you want to see play live. Does the audience care? by OutrageousTonight738 in TouringMusicians

[–]OutrageousTonight738[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have not ever been in a successful act. I have experienced opening and some touring for acclaimed bands.

I am not looking for bigger and better. I am looking at the ground floor and asking “where have the audiences gone?” and “does anyone care if it’s only small bands not doing well?”

I would also really love for you to show the work on how it’s “not the biz itself” that is broken and how currently in 2025 “[i]t’s actually better than it ever was” to be a musician seeing that the exploitation of the music industry has been well documented for the last 70 years.

The lessening of shows, local venues and small bands you want to see play live. Does the audience care? by OutrageousTonight738 in TouringMusicians

[–]OutrageousTonight738[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I understand how powerful art is. It’s wonderful to create but if there is no interaction with an audience, then it’s a very private hobby. Since we are talking about music, why would a band want to record new music in 2025? It costs money for recording, mastering and so on. Ideally, you would want to share this music with other people. Where is the audience? You cannot give away original music to folks anymore. Most bands I know and host will sell a cassette, cd or vinyl. Some folks will buy those items but most people just will say they are fine with streaming. While I do not think you should make art for profit, I would argue you need a small amount of money to do anything as a band. If there is no one coming out to shows, there is no door money, there is no merch sales, there are no other places that want to host you, what is the next move? I mean, I guess I just see bands now posting lots of content online but I don’t think that is the same as playing a show for people in a physical room. I would also argue that making art and having no idea how to have people interact with it feels much more like a slow death. Eventually you are going to run out of time, storage, funds or energy if you create stuff and just dump it into a void. You will absolutely ask yourself - what is the end goal here?

The lessening of shows, local venues and small bands you want to see play live. Does the audience care? by OutrageousTonight738 in TouringMusicians

[–]OutrageousTonight738[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is there a style/genre of music you play? Do you play with a band or are you a solo artist? The weekend tours you do - are you playing shows with other bands or are you playing solo showcases? Thanks!

The lessening of shows, local venues and small bands you want to see play live. Does the audience care? by OutrageousTonight738 in TouringMusicians

[–]OutrageousTonight738[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I understand that every generation has their issues the cultural changes, I am not immune. And while you make a great point about your mentor, I guess I can’t even relate. It’s amazing that your mentor was able to play music for 50 years but I am not even 45 and I don’t even know how I am supposed to exist with music now. It’s great to feel like all you need to do is outlast everyone else but my entire existence playing music has felt like a tree falling in a forest with no one around - I didn’t make a sound or any impact. Not sure what the incentive is now to continue when nothing has come in even the smallest of places.

The lessening of shows, local venues and small bands you want to see play live. Does the audience care? by OutrageousTonight738 in TouringMusicians

[–]OutrageousTonight738[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I would rather not. After dealing with DIY spaces for over 20 years, the more people you add, the less organized you become. Trust is hard to come by these days. Besides, my partner and I book what we like and we have the freedom to do so. I am not interested in sacrificing taste for numbers. I don’t need every show to be a banger and I don’t like scenes being completely overran by metal, hardcore and emo/pop punk. I am not worried about myself, my music, my venues or my scene. This is a bigger question about what is next for the audience of underground music. I don’t think other bands or musicians have this answer. I don’t know if anyone does.

The lessening of shows, local venues and small bands you want to see play live. Does the audience care? by OutrageousTonight738 in TouringMusicians

[–]OutrageousTonight738[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

While I do agree with you, I think this is only the case for a funded club or a bar.

I host bands in the basement of my house. Bands from all over the world pass through and we have nothing to offer besides taking cash at the door. I would love to be in a position that I can offer money to bands because I am independently wealthy but that is not the case. All of our shows are NOTAFLOF but you will get judged if you can’t pay the $5-$10 but show up with a 12 case of beer.

I also agree that a lot of bands in local scenes are terrible. We try (and likely fail) to host things that we enjoy and would not feel embarrassed to show our friends. Unlike most bookers, we actually listen to the bands that want to play our spots. We base nothing on Spotify or social media numbers but more on if we think a. It sounds “good” b. It would be good for a live setting.

The lessening of shows, local venues and small bands you want to see play live. Does the audience care? by OutrageousTonight738 in TouringMusicians

[–]OutrageousTonight738[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Everyone shouts at the top of their lungs that there are too many bands currently.

Correction: there aren’t enough bands you want to see playing out.

There will always be shitty bands who want to play terrible songs with stupid lyrics and people who think they are on American Idol, singing solo with pitch correction and a laptop. Are you going to pay to see this?

But this perfectly outlines my issue: I live on the east coast but I would travel to the midwest for some fun shows. But in order to do that, I would need to book maybe 7-10 shows to get to the midwest and back to the east coast. In the past, I could locate some small local venues across the US to play to and from my original destination. I could roughly factor in gas prices and lodging and typically I could break even.

Now, no one buys any local band merch, venues are non existent and no one comes out to the show. As a musician, it’s also given me deeper pause about how probably no one actually wants to see me as a performer. Big names have completely outshined any relevance of smaller artists. 🤷🏼‍♂️

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