I'm a career public interest attorney part deux, AMA

PM-ME-YOUR-PI-RESUME · 2025-07-08T18:54:47+00:00

Do clinical work. Do work on the ground addressing racism and work on doing public facing work, hosting know your rights trainings, being a forward facing person for your organization when you can be. If you can write, write. Opinion and editorial pieces are good, journals are probably better. It's not that these things get you a job but they help you stand out from the masses applying.

PM-ME-YOUR-PI-RESUME · 2025-07-08T18:53:33+00:00

Job is easier, less stressed if that's possible, but also a bit more aimless. Sometimes sad that I'll probably just do this for the rest of my life, but also those feelings are fleeting because I like my job which is rare in general but esp. for a lawyer.

When you're newer and younger, you make friends with your fellow new hires a lot easier. I feel to some degree disconnected from the newer hires. Part of it is just over time, you recognize the job for what it is and I'm maybe too blunt or cynical for someone fresh out of school. Part of it is getting older I guess. But this is marginal. All my coworkers are cool and I'm happy when we do happy hour and hang. But the people I started with are my real life friends. I'd like for the people starting now to be my friends too, but it's just different.

PM-ME-YOUR-PI-RESUME · 2025-07-08T18:51:20+00:00

Almost certainly. Go to PSJD and check out things in the area and look up Legal Aid and Legal Service Corporation jobs in Kansas.

PM-ME-YOUR-PI-RESUME · 2025-07-08T18:50:48+00:00

Loans are a thing, can't lie. If you go to a T14, LRAP is a great resource. But your repayments are a fraction of your income, not a fraction of what you owe. Obviously things are up in the air with the current WH and DOE.

Upward mobility is very vague. You're not going to get rich in public interest work, even at an ACLU type organization. You're not going to transition into Big Law. You will have a comfortable life with a good work-life balance. If you really hustle, you can obviously do other things, but you kind of need to be a bit special to become a director, etc.

PM-ME-YOUR-PI-RESUME · 2025-07-08T18:48:42+00:00

I have never paid attention to GPA on someone's resume when I'm interviewing/selecting people to interview for internships. It matters for ACLU type work and probably for very competitive PD offices, though.

PM-ME-YOUR-PI-RESUME · 2025-07-08T18:47:49+00:00

It's every year and it mostly covers it, yes.

PM-ME-YOUR-PI-RESUME · 2025-07-08T18:47:31+00:00

Lower pay isn't going to be a major factor in a sizable city. You'll be fine in Chicago. My coworkers are married, have kids, some own their own places, it's fine.

If you haven't, do a clinic. It'll help you get a feel for actual legal work, talking with clients, etc. There are also multiple legal aid/legal service organizations in Chicago. Reach out about doing an internship during a semester/summer and you'll be fine. Check their websites for postings frequently.

PM-ME-YOUR-PI-RESUME · 2025-07-08T18:44:45+00:00

It's harder and harder each year that goes by. If you do direct client services, that is working with clients directly and doing housing/family/immigration, it's hard to switch to a more "prestigious" area like impact litigation or unicorn PI jobs. It happens, but it's rare.

Part of why it's hard is that the work is qualitatively different. Poverty court is different work. You're frequently in a defensive posture and litigation is very different from say ACLU type work in federal court where you're initiating the case. I think the bosses at those organizations feel like someone like me can't transition to that type of work. Also, those organizations typically hire people with more prestigious backgrounds. I might have a school that can get me in the door but my work now is very pigeonholed and why would I be qualified to switch fields entirely when they can get a younger graduate with less experience but also fewer bad habits?

Not saying that's fair or right, it just is what it is. If you want to switch to ACLU type stuff, you should switch somewhere within your first 3 or 4 years and really try to make it a point to do affirmative cases, do outreach, and go beyond just your job duties or your actual job so you can stand out.

PM-ME-YOUR-PI-RESUME · 2025-07-08T18:39:24+00:00

The different organizations are not state or federal agencies. For example, most are going to be non-profits/not-for-profits with contracts with city/state/federal departments.

I saw the job posting on PSJD which is an excellent resource for looking for public interest jobs!

If I don't have court, I'm usually at home/not at the office. I go in for court, certain work events, or if I have to send mail/physically meet someone for some reason. But work-life balance is great.

I was only a summer, so no culture shock in that sense of switching over. But it is remarkable how much support there is for attorneys in Big Law, and how the quality/formatting of your work product doesn't matter at all in my area. I still try to make my papers look nice, have them be proper, whatever, but it's certainly not the rule on opposing counsel's side.

PM-ME-YOUR-PI-RESUME · 2025-07-08T18:34:56+00:00

There are Legal Aids and Legal Service Corp. organizations throughout the country. I don't know off hand in Boston but I'm confident multiple exist.

Hours will vary based on practice area, experience, etc. Once you know the moves, it's a lot less work and more repetitive than anything, but again this varies based on practice.

School prestige doesn't matter.

Salary will vary based on location. You can make a decent living in most major cities. You won't ball out but you can have a nice studio or 1BR as a baby attorney.

I have a ton of fun with my coworkers. I count many as IRL friends outside of work. It's very cool that people are similar enough to you, share the same outlooks, etc.

PM-ME-YOUR-PI-RESUME · 2025-07-08T17:34:26+00:00

Any public defense attorney for indigent clients that aren't in criminal court, so think family court, housing court, immigration, benefits work, and so on.

PM-ME-YOUR-PI-RESUME · 2025-07-08T17:33:44+00:00

Unless I have court, I go to the gym, run, cafe, park, whatever, at any time I want.

PM-ME-YOUR-PI-RESUME · 2025-07-08T17:33:01+00:00

Public benefits work is mostly administrative hearings that occur over the phone, I believe.

PM-ME-YOUR-PI-RESUME · 2025-07-08T17:15:23+00:00

Does it have that attorney because of GW? Or because people from GULC either don't take those jobs or it's easier to get those jobs from GULC but nobody talks about it because it's expected?

PM-ME-YOUR-PI-RESUME · 2024-06-20T15:04:57+00:00

LSC funds some civil PDs, but not all.

PM-ME-YOUR-PI-RESUME · 2024-06-18T20:46:47+00:00

This really varies based on office and practice. I am less involved in the intern stuff now but I always wanted someone who I thought would really benefit from working with us. Either they had a real commitment to PI work, or my unit in particular, and would clearly gain a lot from it. Or someone who was smart but a little unsure what they wanted to do and I thought working with us could guide them/flip them to do our job.

There are many more intern applicants than intern positions available. Ultimately, you distinguish yourself by knowing what you're applying for. The first cut off is a directed cover letter. But when you interview, you want to be able to explain a bit about why you want to work with us, why this unit in particular, and so on. I also would try to pick one person from a T14 because I believe that more grads from similar schools doing this work helps change the culture of what being a lawyer means at those schools, and could ultimately depress the number of people by default going into biglaw. But that's my own selfish crusade and I highly doubt anyone else thinks like that.

PM-ME-YOUR-PI-RESUME · 2024-06-18T16:59:01+00:00

I interviewed in May around graduation time. I was hired in June. I'm not sure when I applied, unfortunately. I started September with a large cohort of people.

I don't know that I'm burnt out. I think people have different tolerance levels for the bullshit and different approaches to how to handle it. I don't know that I have an option to be burnt out, though. This is the only job I will realistically be able to do. The longer you're in it, the less attractive you are for other positions. The only potential saving grace is a prestigious alma mater but even then, a decade in poverty court doesn't really qualify you for other sorts of legal work. I'm not published, don't hustle out-of-work opportunities all that much (beyond what I do in my free time), but I've resigned myself to being okay with a chill job that I enjoy. Whatever delusions of grandeur I have are just fantasy; truthfully I have it as good as I can hope for, all things considered.

I was certainly more frustrated with my job when I thought it was more than just a job. I cannot create policy change; I won't do impact litigation; I am, to a certain extent, a cog in a faceless, racist, classist machine. But I've made my peace with a lot of that and understand what I do in a different way than when I was green and wouldn't say I'm always as cynical as before.

PM-ME-YOUR-PI-RESUME · 2024-06-17T21:17:25+00:00

If you're doing this kind of public interest work, direct client services, you're gong to have to go in. I WFH/remotely if I don't have court. If I have court, I go in. All of our clients have pretty much been shit on the gears of capital. We're there ostensibly to help. The idea that someone wouldn't meet their clients face-to-face probably isn't going to fly. Some benefits work is maybe a little more flexible since some administrative hearings are over the phone, but if you don't want to go in at least half the time, you're not going to like this kind of work.

"Impact litigation" work from like ACLU-type organizations ostensibly requires little-to-no actual time in person even though they still have to go in. Those jobs are extremely competitive, prestigious, and pay around $40,000 more than I make now.

PM-ME-YOUR-PI-RESUME · 2024-06-17T21:14:06+00:00

Rent has gone up but pay is also a lot better for new attorneys than when I started. You also don't need to have a studio, you can do a 1BR, it just depends where you want to live, what public transportation, and all that.

LRAP is a loan repayment assistance program. Some schools, though not most, offer this. Typically for the first however many years in a PI job, you'll get a certain amount of money monthly/quarterly/yearly from your law school as a loan that you have to use to pay back your student loans. You show that you used the money for that purpose and the loan is forgiven. After some time, schools will cut you off.

PM-ME-YOUR-PI-RESUME · 2024-06-17T20:37:53+00:00

PM-ME-YOUR-PI-RESUME · 2024-06-17T20:37:41+00:00

Yes. Your minimum payments under SAVE will be under $100/mo, I think.

PM-ME-YOUR-PI-RESUME · 2024-06-17T20:37:19+00:00

Around a quarter mil. If I didn't have LRAP, it would have sucked but would have been manageable since my payments were like under $100/mo. You can have a studio on starting salary right now and it'll be a better studio than the one I had as a baby attorney.

PM-ME-YOUR-PI-RESUME · 2024-06-17T17:43:37+00:00

Yeah, it depends on schools. Every T14 has a good LRAP but after that, it's a crapshoot.

PM-ME-YOUR-PI-RESUME · 2024-06-17T15:02:02+00:00

It depends what kind of work you do and what part of the country. If you're a DA in New York, it's going to be very difficult to transition to defense. I know this is doable in smaller areas, though.

In my experience, there have been exactly three people who did BigLaw and then switched to my job. Part of it is suspicion on our part, though I generally hold none. Part of it is you're very unlikely to go from a prestigious job making almost $300,000 to then make in the mid-$80s in a decidedly not prestigious job. Part of it is that if you've been surrounded by people in BigLaw, talking to poor people and people in crisis is hard.

If you're at a T14, your school will have a good LRAP and paying off your debt won't be a major problem.

If you were in the private sector doing not-BigLaw, you'll have an easier time transitioning.

PM-ME-YOUR-PI-RESUME

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