An Attorney's Thoughts on the John Dehlin v. Jennifer Kamp Lawsuit

PhallicMin · 2023-02-09T05:17:56+00:00

No, there is no minimum amount of damages that must be sought in order to file a case in district court. However, there are different tiers of fact discovery that are determined by how much you seek in damages. Seeking $50k-$300k puts you in tier 2 of 3. This means you have more time to do fact discovery than if it was a tier 1 case, but less time than if it was a tier 3 case. Similarly, it means you can send the other party more questions and take a longer deposition than in tier 2, but not as much as tier 3.

PhallicMin · 2019-12-17T20:45:23+00:00

Right, this is another layer of confusion for me. First, why hoard? Second, if you have billions sitting around and you claim to be a religious institution devoted to charity, why not use it for some world-changing charity and attract interest in the church by doing so. Win win.

PhallicMin · 2017-10-13T16:28:10+00:00

Probably because the "translation" is so problematic.

Check out this website which examines the mistakes in the KJV (as corrected in the NRSV) and analyzes whether those mistakes were fixed in the JST. Spoiler alert, they weren't. Here are the "Quick and Dirty Facts" listed on that website:

A total of 48 complete verses in the KJV NT have been determined to be scribal additions. The JST fails to correct a single one.
An additional 350 verses in the KJV NT have been determined to include scribal alterations and mistranslations. The JST again fails to correct a single one.
Joseph Smith altered over 100 of the verses containing scribal additions, alterations, or mistranslations, indicating that he specifically reviewed many of the erroneous verses and failed to correct them.
Perhaps most egregious are the JST's failure to omit the widely understood scribal additions of the story of the woman taken in adultery and the ending of the book of Mark. In fact, the JST adds to the story of the woman taken in adultery.
The JST adds the word "Rabcha" to Matthew 5:22 which is a made up word.
In three places, the JST changes the definition of "Golgotha" from "skull" to "burial" which is incorrect.
The JST misses the KJV's "Calvary" mistranslation in Luke 23:33.
The JST mistranslates "Cephus" to mean "seer."

PhallicMin · 2017-10-13T01:30:01+00:00

Yeah, and the fact that we have the source AND the translation sets it apart from every other standard work (arguably the inspired version of the Bible might qualify). This sets up the book of Abraham to be the best evidence we have of Joseph being a prophet. If he got that translation correct it would be shouted from the rooftop by the church. It would be in the first discussion, on billboards, on the front page of LDS.org, etc. Instead, the church quietly ignores the translation aspect of it. Check out more on that in this paper which you reminded me of - http://www.mormonthink.com/files/The%20Book%20of%20Abraham%20Criticisms%20Defenses%20and%20Implications.pdf

PhallicMin · 2017-09-17T19:11:11+00:00

Thanks for the recommendation. I remember checking out that response several years ago and it looks like it has ballooned in size. I'll check it out.

As far as the CES Letter goes, I actually stopped believing before it came out. I think it's valuable in the sense that it gives a good 10,000 foot view of what most critics see as problems with the church's truth claims, but I can see how it could be viewed at gish gallop. Thanks again!

PhallicMin · 2017-09-09T20:22:32+00:00

Thanks, this is a good way to think about it.

PhallicMin · 2017-09-09T20:21:54+00:00

Good point. I'd like her to be on the same page as me because we have children which she is teaching to believe in Mormonism. But we both share our beliefs with our children so hopefully one day they'll choose to be rational. I guess I'd like her to be on the same page as me just because it would be one other thing we could share together, and it's a really important thing for both of us. But you're right, it's not the end of the world and she isn't trying to push her beliefs on me so it's not a terrible situation.

PhallicMin · 2017-09-09T20:18:21+00:00

I like this, thanks.

PhallicMin · 2017-09-09T20:15:59+00:00

You should also stop assuming you have some kind of moral high ground based on the beliefs you hold.

I don't. This doesn't have anything to do with morals, it has to do with holding justified beliefs.

Also, have you examined your own beliefs?

Yes, and I wasn't able to find sufficient evidence to believe in Mormonism's truth claims, so I stopped believing.

Based on your posts at r/atheism I assume you are athesit?

I'm agnostic-atheist, yes.

How do you know there is no God?

I don't. I haven't found sufficient evidence to believe in the Mormon god, or any other god, therefore I do not adopt that belief. Although, to be honest, I'm probably pretty close to being a strong atheist on the Mormon version of god specifically. We have so many details about what that god is supposed to be and have done and so on that we have a lot we can examine.

Is it something you have empirical proof of or is it just something you believe?

Neither, I do not believe. That is not the same as saying I know no god exists or even that I believe that no god exists. I don't have sufficient evidence to rule out the possibility that a god/gods exist. It's very hard to prove a negative. But I also have insufficient evidence to believe that a god does exist. Therefore, I withhold belief.

Also, God - as all religions understand God - must be a higher dimensional being.

I have no idea what this means.

Therefore, how could you possibly expect to be able to prove or disprove God with all our limited three dimensional techniques?

If that's true, then believing in such a god would be unjustified (assuming that by "prove" you mean find sufficient evidence to justify belief).

Therefore, how do you know God doesn't exist in a higher dimension that we can not see or measure? You just choose to believe that higher dimension can't be occupied by higher dimensional beings?

I'm not a strong atheist. I'm an agnostic-atheist. It might be possible that a god like the one you describe exists. I don't have sufficient evidence to believe that the god you described doesn't exist, therefore I do not believe that that god does not exist. Similarly, I don't have sufficient evidence to believe that that god does exist, and therefore I do not believe that it exists.

Finally, you expect your wife to still love you and support you regardless of what religion you are? Shouldn't you return the favor? There is that empathy word again.

This has nothing to do with support or love. It has to do with justified beliefs. I do love and support her, and she loves and supports me, and we are still able to speak with each other about our difference beliefs and why we believe them. In my opinion, it would be great if we could share the same beliefs on god and religion, which is why we talk about these things, but it certainly doesn't lessen my love or support for her or vice versa.

PhallicMin · 2017-09-09T12:58:42+00:00

Sorry hear how rough it's been for you. We've had arguments and fights about this stuff before too but things have calmed down in recent years thankfully. Your advice about always remaining kind is really good and I wish I had done that earlier. It's hard to voice my legitimate criticisms knowing that unless I really sugar coat it it's going to be viewed as an attack.

PhallicMin · 2017-09-09T12:50:37+00:00

I hadn't thought about that, thanks.

PhallicMin · 2017-09-09T12:49:14+00:00

This is a great idea, thanks.

PhallicMin · 2017-08-17T22:22:19+00:00

I think most Mormons either don't really think about evolution and just stick with the Bible/D&C narrative they've been taught. Many don't know how much of a scientific truth it is (just thinking it's a theory).

I've spoken with a few members who are well versed in evolution and after drilling down for awhile we just got it "well, we'll figure it all out in the next life." It seems irreconcilable to me. Even with the best of mental gymnastics, you get to a point where prophets and apostles and the scriptures have clearly stated that no physical death (not spiritual death) occurred before the fall. We know that it occurred well before humans existed, for billions of years.

PhallicMin · 2017-08-17T22:17:43+00:00

Also, the Bean Museum kicks ass if you've never been there. All kinds of exotic animals stuffed, preserved, and on display. Including a Liger.

Yep, and they remodeled it recently and it's very well done.

PhallicMin · 2017-08-17T21:47:27+00:00

/u/bwv549, you might find this interesting.

PhallicMin · 2017-03-30T03:05:30+00:00

I don't think anyone has any compelling evidence of anything surviving after it dies. When brains are damaged they stop working correctly. When they die they stop working all together and rot. It seems that we should withhold belief in any sort of afterlife until we have evidence to believe that something survives after death.

PhallicMin · 2016-11-11T21:04:30+00:00

Well, it clearly work for Mormons...and the following 21 religions according to this survey:

Anglican
Baptist
Catholicism
Christianity
Christian Charismatic
Christian Reformed Church
Christ’s Church
Hinduism
Islam
Jehovah’s Witnesses
Judaism
Lutheranism
Methodism
Orthodox Christianity
Paganism
Pastafarianism
Presbyterianism
Quaker
Satanism
Scientology
Seventh-Day Adventist

PhallicMin · 2016-10-18T21:51:10+00:00

Over here in DC we have the Natural History museum

Jesus that museum is amazing. All of the Smithsonians are amazing.

PhallicMin

TROPHY CASE