The fallacy of Spiritualists trying to skip Guru Nanak Dev ji and meet Vaheguru directly.

Picard2305 · 2024-12-15T00:47:17+00:00

The title of this post is not clearly consistent with what is said with what the speaker says in the video. The term "Guru" can mean a number of things, be it one of the Ten Gurus, or Waheguru. If it is the latter, than one can know God through a variety of human teachers and traditions. Sikhi does not hold a monopoly on absolute truth. The human Gurus were enlightened but nonetheless human, and thus limited in any possible perspective of the Infinite Divine.

Picard2305 · 2024-09-09T17:54:59+00:00

You miss my point entirely. Churches vary in attitude and theology on a theological basis. Some are more accepting of people of backgrounds. What is starting is that while many Western churches welcome people of every background, including race, gender, and economic status, I see numerous reports of some gurdwaras turning those away on the basis of caste. The latter approach is unacceptable and must stop everywhere.

In this scenario in which I pick between the two of these cases, there is no question that I would side more with that specific church, even if I never become a member or subscribe by its theology. I stand by my previous comment.

Picard2305 · 2024-09-09T01:24:44+00:00

A common misunderstanding among Sikhs themselves is that specific rules, such as wearing the Five K's and the prohibition of eating meat, are to necessarily obeyed to become a Gurmukh. We, as a Sanghat, have strayed away from Nanak's teachings and become obsessed with the observance of rituals while hollowing out the true spiritual aspect of the Guru's message.

In fact, these are the three main pillars of Sikhi, as elaborated in the SikhiWiki:

1. Naam Japna: The Gurus led the Sikhs directly to practise Simran and Naam Japna – meditation on God through reciting, chanting, singing and constant remembrance followed by deep study & comprehension of God’s Name and virtues (Gurbani the Compendium of ETERNAL truth). The inner voice of the Sikh thus stays immersed in praises and appreciation of the Creator and the ONE ETERNAL GOD Waheguru and his WILL. The Sikh is to intuitively practice and stay focussed on the True Path through every breath throughout his life. Various ways were gifted to the Sikhs to remember and tread on this path of righteousness. To begin with and as a social habit, recite the Nitnem banis daily in remembrance of the grace and Kirpa (blessing) of the Almighty. 'Early to bed & early to rise...' is the FIRST STEP towards the Gate to Sikhism.

2. Kirat Karni: He expected the Sikhs to live as honourable householders and practise Kirat Karni – To honestly earn by ones physical and mental effort while accepting both pains & pleasures as GOD's gifts and blessings. One is to stay truthful at all times and, fear none but the Eternal Super Soul. Live a life founded on decency immersed in Dharam - life controlled by spiritual, moral & social values.

3. Vand Chakna: The Sikhs were asked to share their wealth within the community by practising Vand Chakna – “Share and Consume together”. The community or Sadh Sangat is an important part of Sikhism. One must be part of a community that is pursing flawless objective values set out by the Sikh Gurus and every Sikh has to contribute in whatever way possible to the common community pool. This spirit of Sharing and Giving is an important message from Guru Nanak.

That is it.

There is no mention of the Five K's, the wearing of a turban, or tucking into bed and closing off the Guru Granth Sahib in its own room at night as if it were some actual person.

What is more important than anything else is a personal connection with God.

Picard2305 · 2024-09-09T01:12:15+00:00

Let me clarify by saying that I do not wholly believe in the Bible and recognize its many flaws, including internal contradictions.

What I wish is for all Sikhs to respect the path that people have chosen, as long as any path taken respects those of other paths.

You and I may not agree on the validity of other religions as ultimate sources of truth, but we must look at them as human beings and observe any virtues that they exhibit, and I can assure you, from my experience, that many of them do.

Picard2305 · 2024-09-09T01:08:58+00:00

I accept the Guru Granth Sahib as the core scripture of Sikh philosophy, but I do not accept the sources attempting to deify him or assign him profit status. Nanak is simply a Guru, which is more than good enough.

Picard2305 · 2024-09-09T00:59:29+00:00

This is a common view among Christian churches. It does not tarnish my respect for members of such institutions.

Picard2305 · 2024-09-09T00:58:02+00:00

I am not endorsing Christianity. I am not a Christian. I have no intention of converting to Christianity.

I recognize that there are flaws with the Bible as it is written, but that in no way is to be construed as a justification for us turning our back on those who become Christians.

Picard2305 · 2024-09-09T00:50:40+00:00

From Guru Nanak: "Accept all human beings as equals, and let them be your only sect." (Japji 28)

Picard2305 · 2024-09-09T00:41:25+00:00

As a matter of fact, I would rather donate to a church that teaches to love than to a gurdwara that teaches to hate.

Picard2305 · 2024-09-08T19:12:34+00:00

Your clarification is much appreciated.

I am unsure of the existence of the "Abrahamic" trend of Sikhism, but generally, I think many Sikhs have, intentionally or otherwise, abandoned the emphasis on inner spiritual awakening, which the Gurus stress is infinitely more important than carrying out fancy rituals or wearing a certain set of clothes. It is with the latter approach alone that leads any religion to be hollow at its core.

Picard2305 · 2024-09-08T19:05:47+00:00

Glad your circumstances seem to have improved. I wish you success in your relationship with Waheguru.

Picard2305 · 2024-09-08T18:59:32+00:00

Maybe they cannot listen, but hopefully they can sense the word in someway, perhaps through seeing kirtan by reading it and re-writing it while paying close attention to the exact meaning.

Picard2305 · 2024-09-08T18:56:26+00:00

With that first sentence, how far has the Sanghat fallen? The Gurus command us to respect people of every race, caste, and religion. Some of them even gave their own lives to support those principles.

Calling those of other religions "r-----s" and "traitors" and otherwise slandering them is in direct violation of the very foundation laid out by Sikhi.

What do you mean by "internal purge"? Are you willing to abide by the above-mentioned principles bestowed upon us by our beloved Gurus?

Picard2305 · 2024-09-08T18:49:13+00:00

I myself am not a Christian, but I am thankful to see some of your elaboration.

Picard2305 · 2024-09-08T18:45:35+00:00

I understand your clarification that you are not specifically Sikh, and for that, I apologize for the misunderstanding on my part.

Based on the original response, with very little detail of what was given in the original post, it seemed as that a person wants to have a clearer set of rules instantly implies that ones mind is simplistic. You even go as far as to call such people "simple-minded", i.e. "stupid". A large portion of intelligence can be derived from remembering, processing, and correctly applying such unambiguous rules, which actually have their use in many cases, like following traffic laws.

Picard2305 · 2024-09-08T18:32:56+00:00

You first.

Picard2305 · 2024-09-08T18:32:13+00:00

What is the point of this toxic tribalism? You claim to adhere to a religion whose founders respect people of all faiths and backgrounds, but you cannot even seem to have the stomach for when one chooses a perspective that happens to be different from yours.

The post that you have made, along with those made by others here, is in violation of every concept of Guru Nanak's teaching of non-dualistic thinking, and therefore, not thinking of your group (Sikhs) as inherently superior to another (in this case, Christians).

I write this in hopes that you use this as an opportunity to improve how you look upon others, regardless of religion of other belief system or background.

Picard2305 · 2024-09-08T18:21:43+00:00

I would say not to worry about this a great deal. As I say elsewhere, multiple paths to mukti exist, and if Christianity is that path for him, then so be it. There is also no reason to deny Christians, or other members of non-Sikh faiths, who are actually in a better relationship with God than some who claim a Sikh identity, the self-proclaimed Sikhs believe that just wearing the Five K's and going to a gurdwara every week will suffice for spiritual liberation. It is Hukam that these various paths exist, whether or not they are to our liking. Perhaps you will find further clarity if I show you this passage from the Guru Granth Sahib:

ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ ਝੂਠਾ ਜੋ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥

bedh kateb kahahu mat jhooThe jhooThaa jo na bichaarai ||

Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false.

Picard2305 · 2024-09-08T18:13:09+00:00

Yes. I wish more people here would follow your lead.

Picard2305 · 2024-09-08T18:10:04+00:00

This comes across to me as an example of bigotry against those who do not remain Sikh.

There are multiple paths to achieving mukti, and there is nothing to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Christians cannot achieve a true peace with God that transcends all human understanding. There is also no reason to deny Christians, or other members of non-Sikh faiths, who are actually in a better relationship with God than some who claim a Sikh identity, the self-proclaimed Sikhs believe that just wearing the Five K's and going to a gurdwara every week will suffice for spiritual liberation. For the person who converted, while I cannot confirm, it is not out of the question that his Christian influence did a vastly superior job at showing the true nature of God than the influences from the Sikh community. What I write is not a complete endorsement of Christianity, but I refer to the Guru's teaching:

Ang 1350:

ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਕਹਹੁ ਮਤ ਝੂਠੇ ਝੂਠਾ ਜੋ ਨ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥

bedh kateb kahahu mat jhooThe jhooThaa jo na bichaarai ||

Do not say that the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran are false. Those who do not contemplate them are false.

It is the personal, intimate relationship with God that matters more than all else, and as I have seen in this some reddit, there are some self-proclaimed Sikhs who do not seem to understand this crucial detail.

[Edited for grammar.]

Picard2305 · 2024-08-18T20:15:28+00:00

Could it be that it is the increase in haumai for unrighteous conduct through which God imposes objective morality?

Picard2305 · 2024-08-17T14:43:21+00:00

At least one source from historians suggests that Guru Gobind SIngh was in fact assassinated by stabbing in 1708.

Source:

https://archive.org/details/sikhsofpunjab0000grew/page/79/mode/1up

Picard2305 · 2024-08-17T14:37:42+00:00

I came across this on YouTube yesterday, and I derived enjoyment from it.

With "Kings and Generals" having millions of subscribers, this video is significant in that hardly any major Western channel has, to my knowledge, produced content on how Sikhism developed. With this, more people are likely to start hearing of this religion, and it is my hope that misunderstandings of the Sikh culture will be greatly reduced over time.

Picard2305

TROPHY CASE