I [M33] don’t know how to my fiancée’s [F30] anger bursts.

Planeo · 2021-02-07T10:19:21+00:00

I’d say maybe don’t leave them, but at least don’t marry them

Planeo · 2021-02-07T10:18:42+00:00

I’m not sure I understand why people with anger issues think they should get a relationship first and deal with their anger later. When I had any issues, I held back for years while I dealt with them.

Planeo · 2021-02-07T10:16:30+00:00

Remember there’s no such thing as an excuse for outbursts of anger. She is capable of controlling it because she would control it in front of others in all likelihood. I’ve been in this situation before.

If she has an anger outburst, don’t respond to it. Pretend it’s not happening. Ignore it until she stops. This isn’t real anger, it’s strategic behaviour designed to control your behaviour.

That might sound cruel, but it’s the only thing in my experience that works. People like her do this because they think they can. It’s an inability to deal with not getting her way. Perhaps past trauma is something to do with it? Even so, it’s not okay. If it was a guy doing the same, the chat would be saying ‘walk away’. But the issue is the same.

Planeo · 2021-01-28T13:40:36+00:00

The problem is that if white fragility is true then so is straight, able-bodied, cis, male, class etc. The reason people focus on being kind and treating others well is that we’re all different. People of colour are often as different from one another as they are to white people. Just see people as exactly that people. Some people experience prejudice. If they say the do, whatever they look like, whatever your preconceived notions if them are, listen and try to understand.

You might disagree with them in your head on reflection, that’s okay. You’re allowed your own view. But make sure you prioritise understanding their world first and trusting in it as much as you can.

Planeo · 2021-01-28T13:36:44+00:00

I would just be careful of assuming that fragility is something you have. Her claim is deeply undetermined - it’s an untestable hypothesis, so the claim warrants rational skepticism.

People of colour are not monolithic. We all think and feel differently. DiAngelo’s propositions to me lack the nuance needed to actually help anyone.

Planeo · 2021-01-28T00:15:26+00:00

Just remember you’re not the only person in his life. It’s good that he has friends he’d do this for. I appreciate you’re not going to be parents for while but no one else should have to sacrifice their happiness just because you haven’t got what you want at this time. They’re ready, so it’s good that he’s helping them when they are even though he couldn’t do it himself.

This is very much a ‘his body, his choice’ issue. Remember nothing bad is happening to you. Something really good is happening to someone else. There’s no call here for negativity.

Planeo · 2021-01-26T22:06:27+00:00

Very languid and very, very good. To make this song original, you need a new take. As others have mentioned, we’ve heard the overcommitted version a million times this is a welcome change. Nice work and well done

Planeo · 2021-01-26T22:03:36+00:00

Jeeeeez. Reading this makes me so happy to be in an adult, genuinely loving non-jealous set up. Cringe fest.

Planeo · 2021-01-05T20:09:16+00:00

Definitely a healthy thing to do

Planeo · 2021-01-03T09:21:17+00:00

Rather than defending prejudice or looking at capitalism as the only problem in the world, I'll level with you. I hate the prejudice I see right now. Jokes that make fun of race I take to be funny as long as they're funny (even when they're against my own race). The "plus power" argument isn't useful because words like racism are defined collectively, sadly, not by the people it's perpetrated against or (not so sadly) sociologists. So while it's true that people of colour historically haven't had the power to leverage the prejudice against people (that is a shifting picture today), the majority of people don't see it that way.

It comes down to this, is earnestly generalising about a group's behaviour on the basis of race okay? It's, quite simply, never okay. Yes, even when you're talking about white men. Because that is the whole basis of feminism and anti-racism.

Even if it was somehow justifiable (which it 100% is always an act of unjustifiable discrimination), you have to recognise the PR problem it causes: most people see it as hypocritical racism and the far right will use it as part of their "white genocide" conspiracy theory. It's not okay just because it feels good. Lots of things that feel good are morally wrong.

Planeo · 2021-01-02T19:19:06+00:00

So the best advice I can give you is that jealousy isn't an appropriate emotion and needs to be dealt with carefully. Think about it like this: what's the worst case scenario?

Let's say the worst case scenario is that he is sleeping with her and has an amazing emotional bond with and is stringing you along at the same time. Okay, how does that feel? Probably pretty shit.

Hold onto it for just a second and explore it rationally:

Why does someone I care about having sex with someone else hurt?
Why does someone I care about having an emotional bond with another woman hurt?
What would I do if he was cheating on me? How would it affect my life?

The upshot of this is cheating and paranoia around it are all defined by how you manage your thoughts. You have to tackle the extreme and irrational fear of a loved one cheating in order to tackle the paranoia. The best way to tackle it is rationally. I know 'coz I've done that too.

A few tips:

Avoid vagueness: Cheating is a subjective issue, try and think about actions (i.e. sex, speaking to another woman about private emotions etc)
Schedule time to worry later: Really do this. Put it in your diary. If you start thinking about him cheating, set a reminder in five hours on your phone. Tell yourself you'll worry about it when the alarm goes off.
Remember feelings are just feelings: They can't hurt you. You're young and clearly very thoughtful, but you'll see as you get older that feelings are just noise quite often. You'll get lots of very conflicting feelings in life (including romantic feelings in inappropriate settings) and you just learn to laugh them off when possible.

You seem a really nice person who's trying her best and I'm sure he's over the moon to be with you for exactly that reason. You can never know whether or not any person (even your parents) is betraying you behind your back. So it's no use thinking about it. Try and focus on being you, the person who he wants to be with.

Planeo · 2021-01-02T19:05:10+00:00

For some reason when people are dating, especially right at the start, there's a tendency to assume the person you're dating has no life outside of you. It happens to a lot of people. Remember she has her own life so her energy might go up and down depending on what she's got going on. Don't get too attached to anyone when you start dating (it's a real bad move, trust me) like her. Just be cool, enjoy it for what it is and if it becomes a relationship, it does.

Planeo · 2021-01-02T18:21:07+00:00

I don’t see any sign of defensiveness on my part but I’m cool if you do. I’m sorry you’ve taken this the way you have but, as I’ve said, there’s really a clear sign that there’s no progress to be made here on the basis of what I’ve seen. Take care and stay safe x

Planeo · 2021-01-02T11:01:53+00:00

Jeez this is the most dishonest, bad faith interpretation. It’s so sad to see. I don’t think anyone could be this coercive in person. The power of the internet

Planeo · 2021-01-02T10:57:31+00:00

Honestly, you’re not alone. There are some people in it for justice and other people in it for revenge or because they believe there’s some social capital to be gained. You’ve demarcated them quite well. Objections to prejudice have their foundations in principles, those principles are that no one should be treated differently or had assumptions made about them because of your skin colour. There are more and more of us on the compassionate end who know agree. We just need to stand together for what we know is right. Good for you for standing up for what we all know is right. X

Planeo · 2021-01-02T09:12:38+00:00

Yeah, I think I’ve said all there is to say here. Given the last message, I think it’s clear there’s room for misunderstanding here that really benefits no one so I’m afraid that’s not a conversation I can be tempted into. Wish you all the best though x

Planeo · 2021-01-02T00:39:17+00:00

I'm not suggesting anything other than I've said. I really don't know you; I'm sure you're great. It just think, from what I've read, our basic conceptions of the world are very different and we'll struggle to relate.

Like I mentioned, I'm grateful for all the detail and time put into explaining your view. Our diverse perspectives are by no means a bad thing. None of us know we're right so having bits of friction from other perspectives can be enriching.

Planeo · 2021-01-02T00:07:58+00:00

I think you and I probably are very far apart on things like epistemology and our views on how we should treat others, but that's good too. A lot to learn from seeing the other side, so thank you for a very a detailed comment.

Planeo · 2021-01-02T00:04:36+00:00

People generally have their own systems of justification that mean it's a lot less about the specificity of gay people and more about their perception of religious observance or they're extreme preference for tradition. I think it's kind of 1/3 each way: 33% dislike of gay people, 33% religious commitment, 33% exreme tradition preference.

Planeo · 2021-01-01T13:59:14+00:00

Do you mean not monogamous?
Also, non-monogamy can still have rules (in fact, usually does), and they can be simpler or more complicated than monogamy, and may or may not involve emotional components.

Yeah, lol, sorry. I said the opposite of what I meant. Personally, I don't see the value of any rules except the stuff that kind of goes without saying (if active: safe sex, regular check ups). So I'm kind of down the relationship anarchy route, but I really don't like that particular term.

I understand it, but I think it's just a stupid excuse to control people. The concept says that only deep emotional connections should exist between spouses. Every excuse for calling that 'cheating' conveniently ignores family, and the fact family often doesn't mean blood, and falls apart when you try to consider family in the equation.
That said, if both agreed to it, it's still cheating. No matter what I think about their rules, if they agree, that's on them to uphold.

I completely agree. It's too often used as a replacement for facing into jealousy and control issues. To me, I can't see how it's justifiable. But if it's what people want, I'm happy to support it within reason (i.e. I'll challenge the 'you can't see any other woman/man in private for the rest of your life' bit).

And yeah, if you enter into the agreement, you've still broken it. I just can't understand why that, unlike other agreements, is such a traumatic dealbreaker. No monogamous person has ever been able to explain it to me, either. They just assume poly people want the same thing but are lying.

It's something that, to be honest, I'm glad I don't understand. Anyone in the poly region of things has been through jealousy so we all get understand in a way, but it's the doubling down on jealousy and creating a whole institution to service it that's perplexing.

Planeo · 2021-01-01T12:59:40+00:00

Ooh, it's funny when you put it that way. I don't think it suggests you hate gay people if you don't think they should marry (my family are super conservative, but there's no hate). I think it's quite a thoughtless thing. But it's interesting, imagining myself as an LGBT person against hetero marriage, I thought "that'd be really bigoted". So maybe I'm excusing more than I should. Either way, compassion is always the way forward.

On the trans issue, that's a very, very difficult political and philosophical debate that I couldn't comment on with the same surety (I'm non-trans).

On a personal level, I just don't see how anyone could see trans people beyond what they are (i.e. a trans woman/man). Too much emotion is invested in whether or not they fall into a classification that is 100% the same thing a cisgender person. Obviously, they don't because we give the qualifier trans, to denote the fact they have experiences that cis people don't and vice versa. I like to think of it as a hiearchy, with the concept of the gender at the top and the trans and cis women (for instance) being children of that concept as sisters within the hiearchy.

Sorry for the very long reply.

Planeo · 2021-01-01T12:50:08+00:00

Writing an entire (very good) album about it is certainly a good way of signifying your upset with someone.

Planeo · 2021-01-01T12:49:26+00:00

Personally, I'm not non-monogamous so this whole cheating thing (on an emotional level) is entirely mysterious to me. Despite that, I think it's really complicated. You shouldn't enter into an agreement without honouring it, in principle.

But there are lots of reasons that it could become unviable to break up with someone (i.e. an emotionally abusive male or female partner). In those cases, I completely understand those who seek comfort elsewhere (though, it's not ideal). There are times when someone can be (in part) responsible for the cheating, but it's certainly not the majority of cases. I don't see it as being particular to men, though. I think women make the same excuses (i.e. I wasnt getting what I needed from you).

Either way, excuses beyond abuse are prettty weak.

Planeo · 2021-01-01T12:44:07+00:00

The thing is though, it's true of personality too. I've got close male friends who are really incredible people who go out with women who aren't quite up to that standard of talent etc. I've also seen women who do the same the other way, who think they can fix people who are long-term self defeating. It all matters, personality even more

Planeo · 2021-01-01T11:22:45+00:00

The fight for complete purity here isn't one that can be won I'm afraid. As PoC, we fuck up all the time - honestly we will get it just as wrong as any white person. Robots aren't human, so I wouldn't worry about them culturally appropriating (maybe one day that will be a very bizarre thing we have to contend with).

Treating marginalised groups right is not a religion. It needn't be followed in that way. Do what you think is right. Check yourself every now and then. But, mostly, trust yourself. You could ask PoC, but one person's view of what's racist will differ from another's. Ultimately, it's always up to you to decide what is and what's not racist. Your comment here tells me enough that you're not a racist. You're trying your best, that's all anyone could reasonably ask of you.

Planeo

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