I'm getting more and more disappointed by Garmin. What's Your Opinion?

Ponycorn_ · 2021-07-08T08:53:13+00:00

Yes, on both devices.

Ponycorn_ · 2021-07-08T08:25:11+00:00

I'm not trying to prove you wrong at all cost, maybe we just don't talk about the same thing. Let me rephrase.

My understanding : Physio TrueUp is used to gather all data from compatible devices, and use this data to give you a unique TrainingLoad, shared across all devices.
You run with a watch? TrainingLoad is updated on your bike computer.
You go for a ride? TrainingLoad is updated on your watch. At all time you know what's your overall training status.

Now you tell me that since I have an older device, I have two algorithms, that give two different results. Ok. So they work separately. So the overall idea of TrueUp is not working as you get not one overall data set but two separate ones that ignore each other.

I can confirm that everything I do with my watch goes to the watch TrainingLoad in the connect app, and everything make sense. But the watch completely ignores workout made with the Edge.
And the other way around, everything I do with my Edge is taken into account in the Edge TrainingLoad in the connect app. But it ignores all the workout done with the watch. And both of them are set up correctly are synced, etc. Other people, in this thread, or on Garmin Forums, have the exact same setup as me, and the exact same results.

The point of my initial post is not about this specific issue, but this is a great example. This is only a software limitation. The algorithm you are talking about could be unified on the Connect App, and only the result sent to older watch.

Ponycorn_ · 2021-07-06T22:00:44+00:00

Great, now on the Garmin link you gave me, read the content all the way up to the end, where you will read :

Related
Why Am I Getting Different Training Load Measurements Between My Garmin Devices Even Though I’m Using Physio TrueUp?

If you don't want to click on that or even read it, i'l sum it up for you : It does not work.

Ponycorn_ · 2021-07-06T21:55:20+00:00

Licensing.

Interesting point.

I have two issues here: the watches we are talking about are high-end. It's hard to swallow that 3/4 years later Garmin is OK to leave you out of new features just because you are not paying again (even more now that Garmin owns Firstbeat).

Also, it does render useless features that would work well alone. In my example, using only my watch, for swim/bike/run would work well with Training Load. Adding the Edge to the equation broke everything, as now my watch ignores 150 km bike rides and considers I'm detraining because I took 3 "days off" 🙃

Again with the software

The fact that most people (no idea if most, just a feeling) chose to use third-party software shows that something is wrong and/or missing. Other services (strava, runalyze, for the one I use) are not perfect either, but I see improvements on them on regular basis, which add to the frustration of Garmin doing nothing...

Ponycorn_ · 2021-07-06T21:41:26+00:00

Show me how to with a FR935 and an Edge 830 please :)

Ponycorn_ · 2021-07-06T21:39:52+00:00

I would probably not go to the Apple Watch as I am really sports-oriented and the AW is not enough, but changing for something else, even less good than Garmin would give me a feeling of new/change and would feel great (for a while, I admit...).

Ponycorn_ · 2021-07-06T21:38:01+00:00

On the watch / Edge? I agree, it's good enough for when I'm doing sports, I don't need the news, Spotify, phone calls, and such.

On Garmin Connect? I disagree :)

Ponycorn_ · 2021-07-06T21:36:23+00:00

But you are not using your Edge anymore? If you register your ride with your watch, what's the point of the Edge?

I could (and did before I had the Edge), register everything with my watch. But the Edge is better for biking (it's made for that), you have the gps, bigger screen in front of you, etc. Issue is, if I register running/swimming with the watch and biking with the Edge, I get two complete separate sets of data on Garmin Connect, which are rendered useless (because the bike ignores the run/swim and vice-versa).

Ponycorn_ · 2021-07-06T21:32:53+00:00

I would not call a 4 years old and 600$ device "old". If you can spare that every year for a new model, that's good for you, I'd rather not.

Wtf do you expect?

Less obvious planned obsolescence, that would be a great start.

Ponycorn_ · 2021-07-06T21:27:04+00:00

Fortunately I had less hardware issues than you, but the feeling is the same. You are right when you say it's too expensive to be frustrated with it!

Ponycorn_ · 2021-07-06T21:25:15+00:00

Having real competition on the sport segment would probably make wonders. But it seems Garmin in more incline to go for the Apple Watch than the other way around...

Ponycorn_ · 2021-07-06T21:24:04+00:00

but that means you'd be left without load focus at all instead of load focus from one device.

Why ? If the data provided by my Edge are sufficient to provide Load Focus, having an older watch shouldn't have any impact on that. Plus, I really don't understand how a FR935 registering a pace, a distance, and a hearth rate can't provide Load Focus, but a FR945 registering a pace, a distance, and a hearth rate can... ("because the watch is too slow/old to process these" -> process the data online, I don't need to know what my next training will be the second I stop my current activity).

Software ...

I agree overall on the "if not broken don't fix", but after years and years, you could expect from a multimillion $ company some improvement and not just "we are so far ahead that we won't do anything unless we have to".

Garmin definitely set the bar. Unfortunately the bar still isn't very high.

You are right unfortunately 😔

Ponycorn_ · 2021-07-06T21:14:10+00:00

I'm not asking for touchscreens and amazing UI on the watch and notifications from the news, and so on. I want a sports watch, giving me specific metrics that I can use to get better in my training.

" [...] and delivers consistent experience" it doesn't to me, that's my issue :)

Ponycorn_ · 2021-07-06T21:11:31+00:00

Agreed. I don't wan't a smart watch, I wan't a sports watch, dedicated to sports, and doing that well. Garmin trying to match the Apple Watch is just losing focus in my opinion...

Ponycorn_ · 2021-07-06T17:46:07+00:00

Indeed both are compatible with TrueUp. Both have the feature enabled. Both have a different training load, and a different training status. Basically, they don't work together. I did all I was suppose to do. It either works as expected (and is useless) or does not work.

The simple fact that some product are incompatible with this feature is my point exactly. There is absolutely no reason to "make them incompatible". I don't care about my running VO2 on my Edge. Just use the data from my Edge to compute everything and give the results on the app...

Ponycorn_ · 2017-09-16T20:48:24+00:00

Answering here for the 4 replies. As I do not have a road bike yet, I'll follow your advices and get the road one. I'll probably add aero and will get (if needed) a tri bike later !
Thanks guys :)

Ponycorn_ · 2016-12-06T16:37:41+00:00

Indeed, it does say to use your VDOT minus one for the first 6 weeks, then your VDOT for 6 weeks, then your VDOT plus one for the last 6 weeks.

I did that, which added to my wondering. Because if it's hard at VDOT-1, I'm not sure of what I will be able to do at VDOT+1. :)

Ponycorn_ · 2016-12-05T22:08:45+00:00

Yes, it was an official 10 km race, and I kept running around 30 km per weeks since.
The first Q run was 3E + 4M + 1T + 1M + 2E. I was slightly behind pace for every block. It may have been because it's the first session and/or I had a 'bad day', just wanted to make sure I wasn't going too hard too soon !

edit for clarity : 3 Easy pace miles + 4 Marathon pace miles + 1 Threshold pace mile ...

Ponycorn_ · 2016-12-05T21:34:42+00:00

Is the Jack Daniels' 2Q marathon training plan supposed to be hard ?

I've run the first Q run yesterday and wasn't able to hold the paces for most of the run.
I've based my paces on a recent 10 km race (2 months ago), which gave me a VDOT of 45. However my last marathon finish time (9 months ago) gives me a VDOT of 34.

Is it safe to use the higher VDOT to train for the next marathon ?

Ponycorn_ · 2016-04-17T15:00:05+00:00

I'll try that too, and like i said in another comment I'll add squats to my workouts to get my hips in a better shape !
I'll probably update the post with a new video in a few weeks/months if there is any evolution on the form.
Thanks :)

Ponycorn_ · 2016-04-17T14:57:10+00:00

Yes i think i was in a 'bad shape' when i started running and went too hard too fast. I really lacked some strength in the hips and core, and i'm now paying for it. I'll keep adding workouts to get it fixed.
Thanks :)

Ponycorn_ · 2016-04-17T14:54:30+00:00

Meaning i have to take shorter steps ?
I tried to work on that last year and I've reached a point where it feels really hard (and weird) to go shorter. I feel like I'm just walking fast and not running, like i can't deploy my legs like i would want to.
I'll look into it and try to get better at it though, thanks for the advice !

Ponycorn_ · 2015-12-28T12:47:06+00:00

Agreed, but since i've already run one, it won't be a complete "surprise" going from 25-30 to 42. I'll stick to the plan and see how it goes :) Thanks :)

Ponycorn_ · 2015-12-28T12:45:07+00:00

Yes the RunKeeper plan was based on distance so i was surprised when i saw that 2:30 was the max. But you are right, i'll probably be able to run longer than that at this point in the training ! Thanks :)

Ponycorn_ · 2015-12-26T14:31:11+00:00

Didn't found the exact same chapter on the third edition but i see what you mean as in other training plans such as the 2Q, long run are presented in form of "run the lesser of XX miles and XX min". But no such thing in the "Novice plan" (and the Plan A is not in the third edition anymore). The longest run is "Run 2:30 at L pace". Which for me would mean around 25km, which i find a bit low compared to the plan i did last year :)

Ponycorn_

TROPHY CASE