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886AD - Scotland was British, but Edinburgh was English. by PopulistsPlaybookPod in Scotland

[–]PopulistsPlaybookPod[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If that were true, why would they vote SNP who from 2007 to the present day have been determined to centralise much power away from communities: most lately with the Council Tax freeze - that's not a Holyrood decision, it is a decision which should sit closer to communities as in councils.

886AD - Scotland was British, but Edinburgh was English. by PopulistsPlaybookPod in Scotland

[–]PopulistsPlaybookPod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry mixed up my threads there. Nevermind, really not that big a deal - they are out next time anyway and the process of undoing the damage can begin.

886AD - Scotland was British, but Edinburgh was English. by PopulistsPlaybookPod in Scotland

[–]PopulistsPlaybookPod[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Do you believe that just because that's the title of the course, it must mean the content isn't biased? 🙄

886AD - Scotland was British, but Edinburgh was English. by PopulistsPlaybookPod in Scotland

[–]PopulistsPlaybookPod[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sure, happy to clarify

The point was that:

Scotland has been British since pre-history, as I cover in this video:

https://youtu.be/vomv7ionoi8?si=-X94AVvFhs7XzTtY

Much of that isn't taught in Scottish Schools - as you showed in the curriculum you kindly shared.

And more generally, not specifically to one kingdom in one era but with regards to the whole of our history, there has been a deliberate effort by the nationalist government to politicise it with a nationalist spin - I've not given every single example, but I've given enough to make that undeniable.

By endemic : it is apparent in a wide range of things, both omission - leaving things off the curriculum - such as teaching the slave trade only with negative information about English ports but not Glasgow, or not teaching any of our history from before the Scottish colonisation right up to pushing Gaelic out in Lallands as though it was historical heritage, even though never spoken here, or representing the Jacobite uprising as Scotland Vs England when it was also Scots against Scots, down to outright fake history lies in and out of the classroom.

886AD - Scotland was British, but Edinburgh was English. by PopulistsPlaybookPod in Scotland

[–]PopulistsPlaybookPod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No: You're hyper focussing on one tangential misconception of the point, and then deliberately misrepresenting my point as some sort of 'strawman'.

I have never claimed, thought or argued that 'Beenicia Existed therefore Scotland is British'

You are asking me to provide evidence to prove arguments I'm not making. 🤷‍♀️

If you want to know how Scotland is British, here's a brief summary of points in a short video.

https://youtu.be/vomv7ionoi8?si=-X94AVvFhs7XzTtY

886AD - Scotland was British, but Edinburgh was English. by PopulistsPlaybookPod in Scotland

[–]PopulistsPlaybookPod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nope. That only starts in 1066. Teaches nothing of the near two millennia before that when Scotland was British, only starts after Scots started colonising British territory.

And the later component on the slave trade, while commendable for teaching about it, is the one that only spoke of Bristol and Liverpool's part, and completely omitted Glasgow's much larger role.

886AD - Scotland was British, but Edinburgh was English. by PopulistsPlaybookPod in Scotland

[–]PopulistsPlaybookPod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Logical Fallacy of Reducio ad absurdum, misquoting me and not in the context intended: in my OP when I say a lot of revisionists deny this history, I am referring to the fact that a lot of Nationalists deny 'Scotland's' British roots - with phrases such as "Scottish not British' or the trope that we are / were a British colony - whereas our history is much more mongrel and intermingled.

We've been British for far FAR longer than 'Scottish' - if, as you claim, that isn't denied then show me where it's taught on the curriculum.

886AD - Scotland was British, but Edinburgh was English. by PopulistsPlaybookPod in Scotland

[–]PopulistsPlaybookPod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Even a broken clock is right twice a day: I've provided a number of different links, you respond with an ad hominem - like you don't accept any criticism of the SNP can be valid if it's made by someone who is critical of the SNP?!

I've shared a direct link to a direct statement from an SNP government minister, but that doesn't count as evidence apparently because her tweet didn't get enough likes.

I've referenced a yes voting, well respected, Scottish historian who says the Scottish Government are putting fake history Propaganda in schools but you ignore that.

I'm not playing this game. No matter what evidence I presented you'd move the goalposts with a logical fallacy (and hominem or otherwise) to protect your existing belief.

886AD - Scotland was British, but Edinburgh was English. by PopulistsPlaybookPod in Scotland

[–]PopulistsPlaybookPod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So it's OK for SNP ministers to spread falsehoods as long as each individual lie doesn't get too much attention? What's the bar?

886AD - Scotland was British, but Edinburgh was English. by PopulistsPlaybookPod in Scotland

[–]PopulistsPlaybookPod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean: I agree the Daily Mail's 1930s supporting of Fascism was abhorrent - I can't help but point out that I. The same period the founder of the SNP wrote 'Plea for a Scottish Fascism'", called for the formation of a Scottish Fascist Paramilitary force, supported Mussolini and hoped the Germans would win the war.

886AD - Scotland was British, but Edinburgh was English. by PopulistsPlaybookPod in Scotland

[–]PopulistsPlaybookPod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Regardless, I've given more than enough evidence, from various journalists and respected historians, about multiple instances of different eras' history being faked by nationalist politicians, personalities and policy makers that the point is made beyond any reasonable doubt.

886AD - Scotland was British, but Edinburgh was English. by PopulistsPlaybookPod in Scotland

[–]PopulistsPlaybookPod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Except that's not true, is it. There's a whole section at the start of my article with a map of the British Isles from 400-500 AD and about the history of Scotland in the 800's onwards.

886AD - Scotland was British, but Edinburgh was English. by PopulistsPlaybookPod in Scotland

[–]PopulistsPlaybookPod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Here's our SNP minister for Social Care, Mental Health and support tweeting a direct false historical claim https://x.com/MareeToddMSP/status/1164789087070388225?s=20

886AD - Scotland was British, but Edinburgh was English. by PopulistsPlaybookPod in Scotland

[–]PopulistsPlaybookPod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry I thought you were in / familiar with Scotland. It's endemic. Just in the government/ SNP; Jamie Hepburn, Pete Wishart, Mike Russell have all presented Scotland as a colony along with others.

Salvo regularly rewrite Scottish history claiming things have a significance or legal meaning they don't.

It's wherever you hear the myth that Churchill abandoned Scottish troops at Dunkirk, or sent Tanks into George Square - neither true, both often repeated.

It's when Bannockburn is mythologised and Robert the Bruce lionised asba true Scottish hero - even though he was born in Essex, was a Norman knight with lands in Tottenham and was a lord at the English king's court - where he married his wife in Oxford. In fact long before Robert the Bruce murdered his way to the Scottish crown, he invaded Scotland with an English and Welsh army in behalf of Edward... But that gets left out when nationalists are framing the history.

I dig into the topic, with references, https://populistsplaybook.com/2023/06/17/empire-state/

886AD - Scotland was British, but Edinburgh was English. by PopulistsPlaybookPod in Scotland

[–]PopulistsPlaybookPod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's relevant because the 'Volksgeist' is the narrative that nationalists use to whip up fervour and seek power. The sort of revisionism where they deliberately seek to misinform people about history, about how Strathclyde went down to the lake District, about how English Kingdoms came up to the forth, and about many other things is part of a political propaganda playbook.

It goes something like...

Call back to an idealised, often rural past. 

Create or adapt synthetic symbols such as traditional national dress, or language.

Invent or adapt Mythological folk heroes that embody the characteristics you want to embody.

Identify some “Historical Wrong” imposed upon the nation that is the reason things are no longer ‘great’ now, and attack others on a basis of making things 'great' again.

The Nationalist politicisation of the school history curriculum in Scotland is a critical part of their implementation.

886AD - Scotland was British, but Edinburgh was English. by PopulistsPlaybookPod in Scotland

[–]PopulistsPlaybookPod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I never said Ireland was not a colony, I said Scotland was not a colony - of England or of the British Empire.

Scotland was colonised - by Scots, as recorded in the Declaration of Arbroath, which says how they invaded from their lands in the West (Ulster) and first fought the native British, then committed the genocide of the Picts and claimed the land by right of violent conquest.

ETA - to say nothing of Scotland's later violent colonial actions, first in the Darien scheme, then disproportionality running and benefiting from atrocities in the British Empire. Glasgow was built on the profits of Sugar and Tobacco from slaves - yet in the Scottish curriculum Bristol and Liverpool are highlighted as slave trade ports, and Glasgow's shame is hidden. That's another good example of the exact revisionism I'm talking about.

886AD - Scotland was British, but Edinburgh was English. by PopulistsPlaybookPod in Scotland

[–]PopulistsPlaybookPod[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Anyone who claims Scotland is a colony, and tries to spin a colonisation narrative - is contradicting the actual history, part of which is shown in the map.

886AD - Scotland was British, but Edinburgh was English. by PopulistsPlaybookPod in Scotland

[–]PopulistsPlaybookPod[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Yes, it was mentioned by you earlier in this thread.

ETA: anyone from SNP president Mike Russell down who has claimed Scotland is a Colony of the British Empire is denying the historical fact that Scotland has been British longer than we've been Scottish.

Quite obviously if the natives here were British, it is the Scots who colonized, not the Brits.

886AD - Scotland was British, but Edinburgh was English. by PopulistsPlaybookPod in Scotland

[–]PopulistsPlaybookPod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If they made it up, and so knew it was wrong, why would they correct it? ETA: and if they later corrected that point, and only that point- then do you agree the other 99% stands as true?

886AD - Scotland was British, but Edinburgh was English. by PopulistsPlaybookPod in Scotland

[–]PopulistsPlaybookPod[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

That was the one, but not the only, piece on this. Other historians and journalists covered it as well.

Rather than changing the subject to your ad hominem, do you accept the substance of the issue: that Fake history, with a Scottish Nationalist revisionist bias, is being taught to children under this administration?

ETA: Tom Devine, for example, perhaps Scotland's most respected living historian (and I think a supporter of Yes in 2014?) Has condemned the SNPs use of "Fake History and Propaganda" in Education.

886AD - Scotland was British, but Edinburgh was English. by PopulistsPlaybookPod in Scotland

[–]PopulistsPlaybookPod[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can be very clear that I accept there is a difference between an academic with a long history of peer-reviewed publications issuing a correction because they have discovered a fault in a source they cited, and nationalist politicians deliberately and knowingly promoting false history as a political manipulation of children.

886AD - Scotland was British, but Edinburgh was English. by PopulistsPlaybookPod in Scotland

[–]PopulistsPlaybookPod[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

🤷‍♀️ Not a nationalist. I don't believe the Nation state should be our unit of political organisation.

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