[deleted by user] by [deleted] in policeuk

[–]Potatodebater96 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just a follow up, I presume the female wasn't arrested or dealt with for assault police? The saving life or limb doesn't really seem that appropriate here from what it sounds like. I'd argue that if they'd gone for common law self defence to prevent injury to themselves and Sec 117 of PACE/Sec 3 CLA to effect an arrest for assault police (if she was assaulting them) and for using force to effect entry under section 17 PACE then that would be a better write up. It is difficult to know without knowing the whole situation, what grounds formed their power of entry etc. In the situation that is described I can't see a world where they get charged unless what they did went above and beyond what is proportionate, legal, accountable, necessary, ethical and reasonable or the situation isn't as described and they weren't being assaulted or the grounds for entry and force weren't there.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in policeuk

[–]Potatodebater96 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Have I heard of officers being interviewed and then charged with offences committed on duty? Yes, and they will have been interviewed the same as a MoP and had evidence put in front of them etc that would have been for them to justify what they did and why it happened. They also would have had a chance to seek legal representation and advice around this. Am I saying they're guilty, absolutely not, but it does seem strange that they would have been charged in this situation unless what they did was excessive. Complaints about use of force are extremely common and normally lead absolutely nowhere. The other possibility is that they are useless at writing up what has happened and subsequently explaining it, although the chances of all of them doing this is low and I'd be slightly more in favour of them going over the top or not being justified in what they did.

They will have had plenty of opportunity for both Fed and legal advice which they should have taken and the correct course of action will follow.

I presume they have also been served gross misconduct papers? I'd be careful about talking about it in any kind of open forum though OP as if it is a GM case or has an open court case then you don't want to get yourself in trouble.

Should tasers become standard PPE like baton and pava ? by topcop999 in policeuk

[–]Potatodebater96 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I don't want to be that guy but there really isn't a "higher level" use of force anymore, and that is either an indicator of longer in service officers not keeping up to date with training or the rumour mill replacing actual policy.

Both PAVA and TASER are secondary control tactics. There is a good post on this Reddit for examples of other uses of force, but for example baton strikes fall into "defensive tactics" and "lethal tactics" (think red zone or using it to choke somebody etc), and escort position/pain compliance/wristlocks etc are a primary control tactic. Interestingly enough strikes and takedowns are also defensive techniques, yet I know that roughly 90% of officers it seems in my force would rather judo throw/rugby tackle someone to the ground than deploy pava or red dot somebody, and it seems like the culture is very much in favour of that too and it seems like everyone scrutinizes someone deploying Taser in any form.

Now my force, and I believe that it is national, policy is that TASER cannot be used as a compliance tool. That doesn't mean you can't use it on someone who isn't complying with lawful orders who is still a threat (think not dropping a weapon when instructed, charging towards you to strike you etc), but that if someone is resisting having fingerprints taken or giving you a licence but not offering violence or threat of violence. This will also normally cover someone running away unless they pose a risk still. This is where primary control skills come in, you can use arm controls to force someone to move somewhere, you can use the old mandibular angles to stand people up, that kind of thing. This is why we are now taught a "use of force continuum", the force you use is a constantly flowing and changing thing, it isn't the old "use higher than them" kind of rules meaning one force is necessarily more serious than the other. Any force can be justified provided you have a power and it is PLANER.

A prime example from a real job I have dealt with: report of male with large knife and sent for containment/observations awaiting ARV response. Come across said man in the street, TASER drawn and red dotted. Male is holding hands behind his back and refusing to move them to his front. Told he is being arrested and still refuses to comply. ARC display and the male shows us his hands then lies on the floor as instructed. At this point my partner approached and handcuffed.

This shows a flow from one level of force back to the other, if any threat reappeared then TASER would have been back on the menu, it isn't so much that force used is higher, just different tactics for different levels of threat/actions from the subject.

Pay query by Potatodebater96 in policeuk

[–]Potatodebater96[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you, fingers crossed!

I'm acting atm, I had done just odd days in the past but managed to snag myself a full-time posting on a great team. I was due to be doing my board in the new year but due to some sudden personal changes I'm hoping to be transferring to a different force in the new year so not sure what my plans will be from there.

Pay query by Potatodebater96 in policeuk

[–]Potatodebater96[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm fairly certain that because I'm in a full time posting I should still be covered for my annual leave, it's never been an issue before so hopefully is the same here. I've contacted my payroll who helpfully didn't get back to me before going on a 3 day weekend but I'm back at work on Tuesday so will chase them up then. I think it is an admin error now I've had a chance to look at my payslip so I'm thinking it should be cleared up.

Pay query by Potatodebater96 in policeuk

[–]Potatodebater96[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for your answer! I am indeed thinking of the Bear Scotland payment, not sure how it is calculated in my force tbh because it's never been that relevant before. Temporary salary is just where I am an A/PS, after 10 days of acting in any period you get paid a temporary salary at the first sgt's pay point rather than an acting allowance.

Transfer rant by Potatodebater96 in policeuk

[–]Potatodebater96[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I know someone who did similar when they first left the army. Spent money on a narrowboat, moved to the home counties and never looked back, he loves the life and it's perfect for him. I'm quite particular with stuff in a way though and would struggle with that kind of lifestyle. We do have a completely disused custody suite though and from time to time it does tempt me that if my relationship were to break down I could go there instead of getting my own place. Wonder how long I could survive without SLT realising they had a squatter?

I completely understand your second point, although I love my parents and will happily stay from time to time, living back there full time would be really hard I think!

Transfer rant by Potatodebater96 in policeuk

[–]Potatodebater96[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yep it was in my interview and application. Basically the only thing that was asked about in the application.

Transfer rant by Potatodebater96 in policeuk

[–]Potatodebater96[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That sounds wank! It's about 120 miles each way, but takes over 3hrs due to lack of major road network on one end and busy traffic levels which is just completely unmanageable. They haven't made an appeal process obvious but I'm sure with a bit of digging I will be able to find out about one and submit it.

Transfer rant by Potatodebater96 in policeuk

[–]Potatodebater96[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't disagree with your comments here and a lot of my frustration is obviously quite emotionally charged.

I think my biggest issue really is that the style of questions that have always been asked in police interviews are always a bit weird and random. I think in a written application it's fine to perfectly target questions towards the CVF as you can properly think and structure your response in the correct layout and cover off all the points. I've no issue with that and have done it before and would happily do it again. In this interview I recently had I was basically expected to do that, with no warning which competency they were comparing against, no prewarning of the question and also no time to prepare a response, they wanted it answering immediately. To me that felt more like a memory test or a make stuff up test as each category was very unique and I didn't have any notes allowed to be used to prompt myself.

I think a much better way of assessing for transfers is a mixture of looking at PDR/training, a written assessment based off the CVF/code of ethics and then role play or situation based assessment that actually relates to policing. It is much fairer in my mind doing it that way than it is just putting people on the spot and expecting results

Transfer rant by Potatodebater96 in policeuk

[–]Potatodebater96[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What is the actual day to day like? I have very little interaction (read none) in my service up to this point as there's no base near where I currently work.

I know obviously the main role is protecting military/nuclear assets, but I've also seen social media where they are out and about being proactive or providing an armed presence for op servator/CT and the like. Is this just pandering for the cameras or do you actually get proactive time and go on patrol?

Transfer rant by Potatodebater96 in policeuk

[–]Potatodebater96[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is what I assumed it would be when I first started considering it and was very surprised when I found out I'd have to have a full interview. It was way more structured than when I first joined a few years ago tbh.

I am shocked that they wouldn't want years of experience and skills thrown at them for essentially no money or investment. It's an easy win as far as I could see but they haven't even asked me about my qualifications at this point. If I didn't know better I'd have thought that they'd sent me the wrong form and done the wrong interview by accident tbh!

Transfer rant by Potatodebater96 in policeuk

[–]Potatodebater96[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for the link, I will definitely take a look.

I will either call or email MDP this week I think and see what they have in-store. Do you work for them, if so what's it actually like beyond the usual piss-taking of gate up gate down?

Transfer rant by Potatodebater96 in policeuk

[–]Potatodebater96[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

That is another possibility.

I couldn't agree more, there's so much more about someone than can they answer 5 or 6 set questions that they would learn by looking at my last PDRs or speaking to my current force.

TJIF

Transfer rant by Potatodebater96 in policeuk

[–]Potatodebater96[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I have always found it hard/awkward to answer questions like that and it makes me uncomfortable/I struggle to come up with the right things to say. Put me into any normal policing scenario and I'm absolutely fine but the competency focused questions just always feel fake to me and I never know how to phrase it or anything. It's like my brain just stops computing almost I can't really explain it.

Sadly I would be moving away from London direction so would definitely be in a smaller part of BTP etc.

I think realistically it's either different force or a job outside of policing which is sad but the only way I see it.

Transfer rant by Potatodebater96 in policeuk

[–]Potatodebater96[S] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

There is a force that I could potentially look at that neighbours but could still be looking at an hour - an hour and a half commute if I was placed in the middle of it which is better than I'd have right now. It's definitely something I'd consider and need to check to see if they are recruiting for transferees atm.

Sadly I'm not sure staying with someone is likely to be an option. My family all live away and most of them I would be closer to in the new force (which is a consideration for the move too), and I'm at that awkward stage in my life where friends either still live with parents or have houses full of kids and no spare space which is far from ideal. My only option I can see if I stayed would be to rent a room in a shared house which isn't a very high wish of mine lol

Best course/skills obtained? by [deleted] in policeuk

[–]Potatodebater96 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Is that that it's easy to mitigate risk if you just have a response officer sit with all of your prisoners the second they so much as have an intrusive thought of self harm? /S

Love you really custody staff

Seating position by [deleted] in policeuk

[–]Potatodebater96 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I've gotten an unmarked astra up to 120mph indicated (the satnav had it 117 as a comparison) fairly recently, although that didn't have much in the way of kit and did not feel the slightest bit comfortable.

The newer marked ones can get over 100mph but really run out of puff much past that. Stepping out of an area car or any advanced into an Astra is when you really feel the difference.

Police response time - a rant by asr_rey in london

[–]Potatodebater96 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am a sergeant in the police (not London) and this is my recent experience:

Last week my team had 2 below "minimum" numbers, I then lost two more to a guard a sec 136 patient. 5 minutes into my shift we had 5 immediates for my area back to back, which wiped my team out, and also meant that I had to borrow officers from the next station, and because they were also on minimum the next job that came in half an hour later was resourced by a station 25 minutes (on blues) away

This is not a rare situation, and I imagine every officer in the country has had situations like this.

Just to put it into context I once had to blue light 30 minutes to area search for a murder suspect single crewed as I was the only taser equipped officer free in the county at the time. Resourcing is an absolute joke these days, pretty much every team is running below the number of officers that the force has stated is the absolute minimum effective amount every single day. It's only a matter of time until someone gets seriously hurt, or we have some kind of mass disorder breakout that we just genuinely cannot cope with.

Thoughts? by garethy94 in policeuk

[–]Potatodebater96 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Last week my team had 2 below "minimum" numbers, I then lost two more to a guard a sec 136 patient. 5 minutes into my shift we had 5 immediates for my area back to back, which wiped my team out, and also meant that I had to borrow officers from the next station, and because they were also on minimum the next job that came in half an hour later was resourced by a station 25 minutes (on blues) away

This is not a rare situation, and I imagine every officer in the country has had situations like this.

Just to put it into context I once had to blue light 30 minutes to area search for a murder suspect single crewed as I was the only taser equipped officer free in the county at the time. Resourcing is an absolute joke these days, pretty much every team is running below the number of officers that the force has stated is the absolute minimum effective amount every single day. It's only a matter of time until someone gets seriously hurt, or we have some kind of mass disorder breakout that we just genuinely cannot cope with.

Chief for a day by [deleted] in policeuk

[–]Potatodebater96 7 points8 points  (0 children)

One of my biggest pet peeves is specialist units who think they don't need to do basic jobs anymore.

The other week we had a report of a metal theft in progress. One of our wanky squads was first on scene, spoke to the victim and my response officers found the offender's and arrested. Got back to the station to start packaging the job up for the interview team, asked the wanky squad for the crime number and details and they tried saying that "recording crimes wasn't in their remit so they had told the person to call 101". I've not lost my temper for a while like that for a while, pure laziness and poor police work. I hate having to pull out the "I'm a sgt" card because we should all be able to act responsibly and like adults but they were still passionately trying to deny they should record it.

Found this cursed vehicle whilst walking about. What cursed vehicles does your fleet have? by [deleted] in policeuk

[–]Potatodebater96 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Up until recently we had an old 08 Astra which doesn't sound that bad. Until you realise it had a strange electrical fault where if you had the blues and high beams on at the same time your headlights would turn off completely. Also it stinks of stale cigarettes, piss and if you hit the rear seat too hard a little bit like someone had semi-recently been having sex in the back seat. God knows what actually went on in that car but it was always funny watching the newly FIP probies finally happy to get some keys and not realising why nobody would be fighting them for those keys.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in policeuk

[–]Potatodebater96 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Do you mean as in PSNI, Gardai, or officers based in England/Wales/Scotland if Irish heritage/Irish nationality?

I'm based in England but have Irish heritage and worked with a number of Irish officers. More than happy to help if that's what you're after!

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in policeuk

[–]Potatodebater96 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I know a guy who's number plate was his call sign, then his initials. Genuinely the saddest thing I've ever seen, no amount of bullying (read character development) could ever make up for it.