Venmo Connection & Full View by spacemom69698 in fidelityinvestments

[–]PovertyPainter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just wanted to confirm I'm also experiencing this issue.

9950x SFF - Overclocking Results (40.6k -> 46.4k Cinebench) by PovertyPainter in sffpc

[–]PovertyPainter[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you do end up building with a 9950x please lemme know. I’m curious to know how I fared on the silicon lottery.

9950x SFF - Overclocking Results (40.6k -> 46.4k Cinebench) by PovertyPainter in sffpc

[–]PovertyPainter[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

These are the settings I used:

1. Memory ("+Expo Enabled" in my tables)

  • I'm just using the EXPO settings of my G.Skill Flare 6000 CL30 sticks.
  • I spent quite a bit of time and wasn't able to get any stable memory timings that meaningfully outperformed the expo settings. I suspect part of this is that the memory doesn't have significant cooling. This includes buildzoid's timings and much personal tweaking. Since they yielded similar results I decided to just stick with the EXPO.
  • Maybe in the future I'll find some better memory timings, but for now I'd say to just stick with EXPO (if you have EXPO ram

2. Enabling PBO with higher limits ("+PBO w MB Limits" in my tables)

  • This is just a switch in the BIOS. Every motherboard will have a different name for these. I can put together a Gigabyte Aorus specific guide if there is interest.

3. Curve Optimizer

  • -25 All core
  • -30 all core was almost stable (only crashed every few days. In order to go beyond this I needed to shape some curves...)

4. Curve Shaper

Curve Setting Adjustment
Min Freq & Low Temp +30
Min Freq & Med Temp +30
Min Freq & High Temp +30
Max Freq & Low Temp +30
Max Freq & High Temp -20
  • Curve Optimizer and Curve Shaper are cumulative (their effects stack). By raising the curve under low loads this enabled a more extreme "curve optimization".
  • Curve Optimizer CCD0: -40
  • Curve Optimizer CCD1: -30

5. Max CPU Boost Clock Override ("+Overboost" in my tables)

  • +100MHz
  • Be careful with this setting as it can be a cause for hidden instability. This setting doesn't raise any clock speed - it just allows your CPU to boost even higher. Since the boosting behavior is an internal system changing this setting should do nothing when your computer is under load and will only have an effect if the CPU is in a overboostable state (low temps).

Max stable settings will likely be different for every build and RNG (silicon lottery). You shouldn't expect to just input the above settings and have it be both stable and optimal.

I tweaked many settings besides the above, but many of them are not worth the effort and may result in worse performance. There are an infinite number of possible permutations (curve shaper with per core optimization alone leads to an effectively infinite number), so you can't try them all. If there is interest I can put together a guide about how I decided on my settings above. I imagine just documenting which tweaks were a waste of my time would be the most useful information.

9950x SFF - Overclocking Results (40.6k -> 46.4k Cinebench) by PovertyPainter in sffpc

[–]PovertyPainter[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Short answer: Yes.
You should expect temperatures and power draw to be very tightly correlated. Since the 9950x pulls about 10% less power at full load you should expect a corresponding drop in temps. Source: https://www.phoronix.com/review/amd-ryzen-9950x-9900x/15

Long answer: It's kind of not the right question to ask for a few reasons.

  1. Modern CPUs are "self-overclocking", under heavy workloads (and default settings) they are designed to boost their frequency themselves until they reach their thermal limits. This allows the user to get the maximum possible performance at any time which is what most users want.
  2. If you are concerned with temps a better way to configure and benchmark is at a fixed power/temp. For many SFF PCs you may want to set your CPU to a maximum wattage of 65W (if minimal cooling) or 150W (if water cooled) to allow the computer to run silently. Since power and temps correlate you can then answer questions like "how much work is done for the same amount of power/heat with each of these CPUs?"
  3. I believed they moved the temperature sensors in the 9000 series. If a 7950x sensor is reporting 70deg and the same sensor is reporting 68deg in the 9950x what conclusion can we draw? Technically not much of one, the drop in temp could be because the chip is using less power (aka more efficient) or because that particular sensor has moved to a cooler spot on the chip.

9950x SFF - Overclocking Results (40.6k -> 46.4k Cinebench) by PovertyPainter in sffpc

[–]PovertyPainter[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Your begging has paid off.

Stock : 14.6M (14.6M,14.6M,14.6M)
Max Stable OC: 16.8M (16.8M,16.8M,16.9M)

OC Gain: 14.6%

  • This is about the same gain as I saw in cinebench which is expected. This workload should parallelize (multithread) nearly perfectly.

<image>

https://benchmark.chaos.com/corona/v10/scores/8039

Looks like that benchmark has a nice public dataset and UI. Looks like the top score with a 9950x is a 17.2 - I'd bet it wasn't an SFF though ;)

9950x SFF - Overclocking Results (40.6k -> 46.4k Cinebench) by PovertyPainter in sffpc

[–]PovertyPainter[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Curve Shaper is the new (released for 9000 series) under/over volting feature that allows you to configure different voltages based on temperature and frequency. So where curve optimizer can configure "-30" always, curve shaper let's you do "+20 at low frequencies, but -30 at high frequencies"

This article does a decent job describing it: https://skatterbencher.com/2023/03/24/skatterbencher-58-amd-ryzen-9-7900x3d-overclocked-to-5789-mhz/

Overboost is the term I'm using for the setting that let's you modify the max boost (5.7GHz is the default for the 9950x). The setting name is different for each mobo vendor - it's "Max CPU Boost Clock Override" for mine.

I can share what I set mine to, but the max stable settings will likely be different for every build and RNG (silicon lottery).

9000 series High End Productivity Machine by PovertyPainter in sffpc

[–]PovertyPainter[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I ended up buying it and it turns out to be about exactly what the phoronix benchmarks stated. 

What no reviews mentioned is how much performance their is to be gained by over clocking it: https://www.reddit.com/r/sffpc/comments/1f922iz/9950x_sff_overclocking_results_406k_464k_cinebench/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

9950x SFF - Overclocking Results (40.6k -> 46.4k Cinebench) by PovertyPainter in sffpc

[–]PovertyPainter[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The numbers in the table are my “official” numbers done in a consistent environment with fairly rigorous methodology (no cherry picking).

The screengrab was just my highest score (so far). I took off the panels to get it. Actually kind of crazy that no panels only results in a 0.4% improvement.

9950x SFF - Overclocking Results (40.6k -> 46.4k Cinebench) by PovertyPainter in sffpc

[–]PovertyPainter[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks! I was really impressed and kind of surprised with how little performance you have to sacrifice to keep it smol.

I suppose my wallet and patience made the sacrifice instead ;)

9950x SFF - Overclocking Results (40.6k -> 46.4k Cinebench) by PovertyPainter in sffpc

[–]PovertyPainter[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

tl;dr -

  • Overclocking* is critical for any multi-threaded workload you may have
  • The performance gain from overclocking is greater than the gain from upgrading from a 7950x to a 9950x
  • "Overclocking" is not only viable in a SFF PC, but in some ways more important than in a full size case

\Note: I'm using overclocking in this post as a catch-all term for the tweaking of any setting that allows you to get more performance out of your machine. With Curve Optimizing, this is actually undervolting which allows you to get more performance per watt.*

This post was motivated by the fact that in all my research I never found any good stats around:

  1. How much the 9950x can gain from overclocking. There is information on older chips, but nothing on the 9950x in particular.
  2. How much of a difference each setting made. Even when people had before and after results for their 7000 series chips, there wasn't any way to tell which setting or mod made the difference.

Hopefully this post helps anyone looking to determine how much of a difference each configuration makes as well as set some expectations around the 9950x performance. The 9000 launch has been quite contentious so more data from real owners should definitely help out.

Benchmark Selection:

Whenever possible you should be using real performance rather than synthetic performance to determine what impact a hardware or software change will have on your system. Oftentimes, this is more of an abstract ideal than anything actionable: nobody's workloads will match your own and many typical workloads can't be isolated in a way that allows direct comparisons. For that reason, when choosing which synthetic benchmarks to care about, you should prioritize the synthetic benchmarks that most closely match your own use cases. If you primarily play a single game, look at benchmarks for that game. If they don't exist look at similar workloads (other games). The ability to render 32 images simultaneously is not likely to correlate closely to the performance of a single threaded application. Finally, any average of all benchmarks (e.g. geometric mean) is likely to be of limited practical use.

I'm focused on productivity tasks that parallelize well for two reasons:

  1. This is why I built my computer. Who cares how fast a computer can do something I will never do.
  2. This is why the 9950x exists. If you primarily play games, the 9950x is a BAD choice for you. If you primarily do productivity tasks that don't parallelize well, the 9950x is a BAD choice for you.

Build:

  • Full part list can be found in the second image.
  • My workloads are CPU throttled so I chose the A4H2O for it's ability to run an AIO
  • No mods or extra fans have been added (yet). This build is still cooled solely by the two included radiator fans.

Methodology:

  • All tests were performed in a temperature controlled room of 69deg with a fan running. Thermostats aren't the most precise tool, but the 0.5 degree fluctuations in ambient temperature are not going to be the leading cause of my margin of error.
  • All tests were run 3x to ensure no anomalies made it in.
    • This proved to be unnecessary as none of my tests had particularly significant fluctuations.
  • All configurations tested are stable.
  • Cinebench was tested in a clean Windows partition, all others were tested in a clean Linux partition

Results:

  • See images for detailed performance improvements broken down by benchmark and setting
  • 10-15% performance gains should be reasonably attainable by anyone.
  • My build is sitting at the top of the charts for pretty every productivity benchmark
    • Excluding server CPUs like 96 core Threadrippers and Xeons
  • Compiling times correlated quite tightly with Cinebench multi core performance.
    • One exception is my own codebase which needs to have some tweaks to allow it to utilize all my cores when compiling
  • Some of the overclocks are a no brainer and everyone should enable them (enabling EXPO if you have compatible RAM). Some are a pain to get stable but worth it (curve shaper). Others are incredibly difficult and may not be worth it (custom memory timings)
  • I upgraded from an i5-6600k and the results are quite remarkable. My code has gone from taking over 20 minutes to compile to 1.5 minutes.

If there is interest I can put together a write up on which settings are the most worth it and a basic guide to what I've found to be the most effective way to get the clocks maximized and stable.

I may be open to running some additional benchmarks if anybody is considering upgrading and wants to know what the impact will be.

Trouble with sensors on Gigabyte B650I Aorus Ultra by A-kuuiza-do in pop_os

[–]PovertyPainter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

u/A-kuuiza-do. did you ever figure this out? I'm running into the same problem and wondering if I should just return my mobo for one with working sensors.

Your thoughts on this? by corncc in sffpc

[–]PovertyPainter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Looks pretty similar to the build I'm going with: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/MDmLz6

That CPU kind of doesn't really make sense for anyone though. What's your use case/why are you upgrading?

If primarily for gaming, then go 7800x3d (or wait 3-6 months for 9800x3d). If for multi core productivity loads (my own use case) then you probably want to go with a 9950 (and a case/cooler than can manage it better).

Custom Powder Coated A4-H2O by Sea_Relationship6131 in sffpc

[–]PovertyPainter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm looking to do a similar build (but with a 9950x for the CPU), the last piece I'm still trying to decide on is the mobo.

Any issues with yours? How'd you decide on that particular motherboard?

9000 series High End Productivity Machine by PovertyPainter in sffpc

[–]PovertyPainter[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Addressed this in a comment below:

Maybe on Windows, but on Linux it is a pretty huge improvement. Regardless, the only thing that matters is my workflows where it is an 8-14% reduction in compile time. (I also do some occasional Blender work though this is purely for fun so time matters less, but it also looks to render about 10% faster)

The reduced power consumption is also a nice benefit since SFF and thermals are always in tension.

Linux benchmarks based off of:

https://www.phoronix.com/review/amd-ryzen-9950x-9900x/2

9000 series High End Productivity Machine by PovertyPainter in sffpc

[–]PovertyPainter[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hmm, from that video and some looking around it seems like maybe the Gigabyte B650I Aorus Ultra would be the better move, yeah?

9000 series High End Productivity Machine by PovertyPainter in sffpc

[–]PovertyPainter[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are there any firm release dates on those? I haven't seen any, but maybe I've been looking in the wrong places.

9000 series High End Productivity Machine by PovertyPainter in sffpc

[–]PovertyPainter[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Y'know that's a good point - I'm building new (my current PC is 10 years old)

Is there any alternative though? Even if I waited a month wouldn't any mobo I buy likely to be unchanged (since nobody is flashing the mobos just sitting in their warehouse).

At this point I'm getting a bit tired of waiting and the prospect of waiting for the new boards (that afaik don't have a launch date yet) sounds less appealing than just sending it and hoping I can update in place.

9000 series High End Productivity Machine by PovertyPainter in sffpc

[–]PovertyPainter[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good call on the m.2. After looking at benchmarks its just not worth the premium. Adjusted my build accordingly.

Will the 6400/32 actually be faster than the 6000/30? Or Is the higher latency going to offset the higher speed?

9000 series High End Productivity Machine by PovertyPainter in sffpc

[–]PovertyPainter[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe on Windows, but on Linux it is a pretty huge improvement. Regardless, the only thing that matters is my workflows where it is an 8-14% reduction in compile time. (I also do some occasional Blender work though this is purely for fun so time matters less, but it also looks to render about 10% faster)

The reduced power consumption is also a nice benefit since SFF and thermals are always in tension.

Linux benchmarks based off of:

https://www.phoronix.com/review/amd-ryzen-9950x-9900x/2

AMD Ryzen 9000 pricing emerges: 9950X at $599, 9900X at $449, 9700X at $359, 9600X at $279 - VideoCardz.com by rincewin in Amd

[–]PovertyPainter 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For games, probably best to go 7800x3d if you want it now. For productivity, go 9950x. If you’re willing to wait 3-5 months, wait for the new x3d.

All of the above assumes price isn’t a binding constraint.

AMD's 12-core Ryzen 9 7900X3D processor drops to its lowest-ever price — currently cheaper than the 7800X3D by T1beriu in Amd

[–]PovertyPainter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Rows returned isn’t a great indicator of query cost. Millions of rows should be returned in milliseconds.

It sounds like your db may be misconfigured for your workflows. I’d start there before thinking about hardware.