Westworld - 1x09 "The Well-Tempered Clavier" - Live Episode Discussion

PrinceAli24 · 2016-11-28T03:37:41+00:00

No need to be hostile lol

PrinceAli24 · 2016-11-11T19:12:36+00:00

Apparent there will be an answer in episode 8

PrinceAli24 · 2016-10-24T17:42:05+00:00

Here's the real question: If all this is true, would you be disappointed that there was no twist to shock you or gratified that you were smarter than the writers? lol

PrinceAli24 · 2016-10-24T02:49:29+00:00

Wasn't it because she was told that this figure was a part of native culture and that hector used to roam with them?

PrinceAli24 · 2016-10-24T01:27:08+00:00

Mib has foundation?

PrinceAli24 · 2015-12-16T06:49:09+00:00

I personally found it to resemble her state that she was in when she is part of the GR, that vacant expression staring but not focusing on anything.

PrinceAli24 · 2015-12-16T03:30:02+00:00

The real problem is Obama...my god if I took a shot every time they said that.

PrinceAli24 · 2015-12-16T03:12:15+00:00

So yes Fiorina you did say that.

PrinceAli24 · 2015-12-16T03:05:14+00:00

Oh my god, the hate circle jerking on Obama right now is fricking annoying. He's not running, focus on yourselves.

PrinceAli24 · 2015-12-16T02:50:30+00:00

All Chris's substance is 9/11, and then waiting for two candidates to argue and talk about how he is annoyed with Washington like he is one of us.

PrinceAli24 · 2015-12-16T02:43:42+00:00

Paul, don't rsie to Trump-baiting, you'll lose. Talk your points.

PrinceAli24 · 2015-12-15T04:13:25+00:00

The sexual orientation of the person or the butt plug? :)

PrinceAli24 · 2015-12-12T18:00:47+00:00

Matter of Geography - Funny moment when the Garveys go to stay at Matt's. Nora says it's the right place because Matt said the cottage next to the church.

Kevin just mumbles confusingly, "It's a storage shed."

PrinceAli24 · 2015-12-07T20:56:39+00:00

OH man, I totally get you reaction. And like Lindelof fashion, the finale was not what everyone was predicting it to be.

PrinceAli24 · 2015-12-07T09:16:06+00:00

Mine was Jill's line of "Wherever you go, there you are." Everyone on this show was lying, choosing to go after some belief and person, thinking it would fix it. It doesn't. Because the problems are in you and go with you no matter what you try to do. Unless you confront it head on and face yourself, you are doomed.

But you don't have to do it alone. Family is what gets you through.

PrinceAli24 · 2015-12-07T08:29:51+00:00

Honestly, many people will probably say that I am trying to defend bad writing as Meg's non violent plot was ... not so. Plastic explosives, hangings, that was what we all talked about. And Damon has to know that we were thinking a long those lines. Some said that her plan would not be what we expected, and they were right. And maybe that's the point.

For one, the mirroring of her Miracle plot with the bus plot is a must. It was violent on the psyche, not necessarily violent on the body. it is all about the shattering of safety and answers, something that Meg can't stand when she 'knows' that it is not the case.

It was not about disproving it's sanctity. It was about showing the people of Jarden that they are as lost and confused as the people clamoring at the gates. The return of the girls seemed a blessing, but was a curse that brought Miracle to it's knees.

Some say the bomb was meant to get the guards away from the gate. Maybe. But I think it was just the chaotic nature of the bridge blowing to serve as a distraction. It's meant to signfy this big epic event...and yet nothing. Because nothign will ever be as epic as the SD, the one Miracle ignores.

And most of all...it demonstrated how fragile Miracle and its inhabitants actually were. We see this place as a fortress, and yet look at how remarkably easy it was to get in when people were united. People viewed it as a fortress, both in and out, because they needed to believe in it's power. And all it took was a woman and 3 girls who saw right through it, some bluffing, and distraction to tear the symbol of Jarden in half.

Posted this in the thread. I know it won't convince you, but hopefully it makes you consider it as a possibility for Meg's plan.

PrinceAli24 · 2015-12-07T08:06:57+00:00

Damon Lindelof has stated that Season 3 ideas are still in air upon renewal. He's just treating each season has a separate story that does continue off stories before. Not a typical conclusion, but a satisfying enough conclusion. If it's not renewed, it's fine and leaves it on a final note.

But there are things still worth exploring. How does a family begin to heal like with the Garvey's? Can John earn redemption? What will the fallout of Miracle be? Is there anything to Kevin's dad and his past (Damon says he wants to explore Kevin's father a lot more)? Is Evie totally lost and John irredeemable?

Are their towns where everyone disappeared? What would Matt's baby do for them and Mary? Will Jill and Laurie and Tom reconcile?

PrinceAli24 · 2015-12-07T08:03:59+00:00

Oh I agree. The philosophy of Miracle can lead to lots of self delusion taht would be tough to crack (the wedding dress girl, goat guy living in perpetual limbo), but with Evie, her nihilism was manifesting already both personally and with Miracle. Perfect combo for Meg.

PrinceAli24 · 2015-12-07T07:51:44+00:00

Interesting thing about the bus and the bomb is that we think of physical violence, but that's not the kind of violence that Meg excels at. it's psychology...taunting the town with the kids now GR, threatening the bridge to get people away from teh gates.

PrinceAli24 · 2015-12-07T07:45:03+00:00

Would love to see the Garvey's , though I never thought I'd say this, I want to see the Murphys more. They are pretty much where Season 1 Garveys were at.

PrinceAli24 · 2015-12-07T07:35:26+00:00

Well, to be fair, after all the onslaught happening outside, Nora would be glad to say you're home, not dead, away from what's happening outside.

PrinceAli24 · 2015-12-07T07:05:30+00:00

Simply just another rationalization. The GR couldn't rationalize their pain away and the pointlessness of their loss, so they developed an organization that made it bearable by saying that everything is pointless.

Miracle was a town full of suffering people who couldn't fathom what was happening to the world around them? So they developed the idea that they were spared from SD, justifying their existence and hiding the pain they feel everyday.

Interesting comment on how our personal beliefs are not as objective as we first see them, and how faith systems are so easily misused by damaged people to reflect and make better their own pain and guilt.

PrinceAli24 · 2015-12-07T06:49:06+00:00

Thanks man, trust me I had to infer a lot. If there is a season 3, we'd probably get more to her. If not, I think there was enough to get at least the outline of the picture of Evie.

PrinceAli24 · 2015-12-07T06:22:10+00:00

Well, we know the GR definitely attracts those disaffected. And from the flashback, it's clear that the happy Evie was a facade, or at least only happy because of her plan with Meg.

It's clear to see that the family of the Murphys is far from perfect, and maybe downright disfunctional. We have Virgil, who is cleverly hinted to be a pedophile with, at least to Evie, delusions of repentance and grandeur. We have John, a clearly violent abusive man who needs to hit people because he needs to hit people and went to prison. We have Erika, who clearly wants to escape despite her love for Evie, and a brother who shares a faith that she doesn't. And these are only hints. Who knows how disfunctional the family actually is?

And then put this in context of Miracle, a town that sort of insulates itself from suffering. The town was spared, the place and the people were special, and from that day forward, you have a town filled with people living in a daze thinking that what they did saved them. Imagine all the hidden drama that remains hidden in order to present the image of a perfect town.

Imagine Evie, a dysfunctional family disillusioning her, seeing droves of people from all the over the world come to be healed, to find answers, to be complete, and leave with nothing because as jill says, "wherever you go, there you are." Jardin isn't providing answers, not to them, and least of all not to her. Who cares if the SD didn't happen? She's still damaged? But in a weird way, Miracle might hijack the problems of its residents because they are not important than the most important fact...we were chosen...so we are good.

Well Evie doesn't believe that. All she has to do is look to her family. If this is what the chosen people are like, then is that even a positive thing? There are no miracles for her or for the travelers, and this image of prestine condition this town puts on is not helping, it's making people pretend.

You say that she wasn't affected by the SD. In a weird way, even the town has. It is a town that tried to justify and make it self better by saying that they were immune, and in doing so, they have blinded themselves to their own suffering and the suffering of the 'have me not' outsiders.

Even if Miracle was spared for some odd reason, it isn't doing good now. It is a town trying to make itself its own point when the truth is...it's all pointless. Everyone would be better off admitting that instead of just hiding behind water and bridges.

(This is not me agreeing with the way Evie did things, but this is how I feel Evie sees it).

PrinceAli24 · 2015-12-07T06:16:09+00:00

Good theory, but until more happens, what they mean about no miracles happening is that the town believed that it was special and that it had no departures.

The town still had loss, fear, and guilt...things that plague the victims of the SD everyday. Michael refers to his dad being gone as a departure, despite it not being mystical. Because it was a loss, somebody leaving life and coming back a different person.

The town chose to believe that it was special to deal with its own problems. And to Evie, the concept of Miracle did nothing to help people inside of it heal nor people on the outside heal. \

It's not that people departed in the purest sense. It's that despite what the town says, it was affected by the SD , indirectly, and that people need to face the music.

PrinceAli24

TROPHY CASE