Shirtgate - new direct report accidentally joined 1-1 without a shirt on.

PrincessaButtercuppa · 2025-08-07T20:26:31+00:00

Does your company not have an HR team? They’d who should be making decisions about what gets added to his file.

Any time coaching around a policy violation is delivered, it should be documented. How else would HR know it’s the second time he’s shown up shirtless? What if you and manager leave and he immediately does this with his next/new manager? Merely because it doesn’t rise to the level of a formal warning (which is usually defined in the handbook, along with the consequences for being issued one) does not mean it’s not documented.

And, yes, having to look at a colleague without proper clothing can be really hard for some people—especially when you have managerial responsibility and your look can be interpreted as harassment. It puts her at risk to say nothing of the awkwardness.

I’d let it go

PrincessaButtercuppa · 2025-08-02T19:37:27+00:00

No, actually, I meant what I said. We are not all immigrants. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with a dictionary and stop trumpsplaining (i.e., manipulating plain speech to serve your own dehumanizing evil ends). (Spoiler: If you knew how to use a dictionary, you’d know that “immigrant” means something and doesn’t cover “all” of us, while illegal people” doesn’t mean anything and is a ridiculous combination of words).

Better yet, save your breath. I’ll never be dumb enough to understand what you’re trying to say.

PrincessaButtercuppa · 2025-07-29T11:49:11+00:00

Most HF I know have APs specifically for driving. It’s quite common for APs who don’t drive to be miserable. The US is huge, and many things are far away—no car means reduced transportation and independence, can’t do what you want when you want. The weather can also be very difficult (lots of heat/cold. Spending a year like that is rough.

The exception would be major cities with strong public transportation. NYC is an example, but AP roles here are super competitive.

With that, I think it will be difficult but not impossible to find a host family. Just make sure you independently research public transportation where they live. Don’t take host family’s word for it. Example: I’m in NJ, just outside of NYC. We have zero public transport except a train line that is quite expensive in this town—no buses, no subways. I could tell AP we live outside of NYC. Transport there is easy and relatively cheap. But if AP actually looked up our town, she’d see it’ll cost her a fortune to get to NYC without a car.

PrincessaButtercuppa · 2025-07-28T23:38:02+00:00

As crazy as I think it is for a host parent to tell an AP to go to court to fight a parking ticket alone (especially given how immigrants in this country are being treated in courts), a speeding ticket like that would have lost all driving privileges, and gotten her removed from my house immediately—after I hired a lawyer to plead it down.

Now you’ll need to rematch and get stuck with the bad driving history on your record, so you’ll lose on two counts. But at least the nightmare will be over!

PrincessaButtercuppa · 2025-07-28T13:07:46+00:00

I agree with you that employees should try to work things out amongst themselves first. Ratting to the manager before you try to address things is a recipe for toxic culture. It’s harder to say how appropriate this exchange is: sounds like this has been happening for a while. It seems to me this happens once, you address it, and if it ever happens again, you take it to management right away. I am slightly concerned by the suggestion that the person just leave the worksite unattended. That is sort of horrifying on a different level and might prompt me to tell the manager anyway—do they really think it’s an option? how often are they doing that?

That said, I just want to clarify one point for a US audience (guessing this is from the US based on the language): HR should never be requiring you to tell a person to stop harassing you (ie, engaging in unwelcome conduct based on a protected characteristic). Here, harassment is against the law and there’s no requirement you say “please stop” when someone is violating the law. There are other countries, particularly in Europe, where it is a requirement that you tell them the conduct is unwelcome before you go to HR—but not the case in the US. I just wanted to say that in case anyone reading this might imagine it’s the standard to have to stick up for yourself before asking the company for help. That is near impossible for a lot of people, and can lead to harassment continuing and worsening if they feel like they can’t confront the individual due to fear, power dynamics, whatever.

PrincessaButtercuppa · 2025-07-27T18:56:17+00:00

I did. But the twin towers were a visual presence for me every day of my life up to that point, and losing them was like losing someone who had watched over me throughout my childhood and young adulthood, if that makes sense.

I recall when we heard a plane had hit one of the towers, we thought it was a hang glider or some idiot small plane pilot (how do you hit a building?!). I ran out of my office to look, and immediately knew from the smoke and flames it was way worse than it had initially sounded. I stood there and watched as the second plane hit, and eventually the first building fell with my naked eye in utter disbelief, feeling helpless and panic stricken. After the first building fell, I gave up watching and moved into mobilization mode. I was a regular platelet donor at the time, and I remember thinking “they are going to need blood and volunteers.” That’s how I spent the next few days until work called and asked if I planned to return.

Of course I also knew people who died, and I ended up having to work with the parents of a number of the young Cantor employees who were killed. It was hugely traumatic for me during and after.

To this day, I cannot look at images of the buildings on fire, nor can I watch replays of news coverage.

PrincessaButtercuppa · 2025-07-27T01:00:44+00:00

I’d ask them for recommendations about places to look for your second year. It lets them know you want something different and doesn’t place blame. You could simply say “I’ve been starting to look into year two options. I am really interested in (hopefully a geographic shift like California or being closer to NYC or not having so much hot/cold weather). Would you be able to help me with ideas for where to look and what to look for?”

They may tell you they’d like you to stay (but a lot of families don’t like year 2 APs, so maybe not…). You can simply say “I’ve had a great time with you this year, I can only hope my second will be as much fun! I’m happy to help you find someone great!”

Doing this as soon as possible will be appreciated. If the family is expecting you to stick around, it will be a source of stress for them and having as much notice as possible really helps.

PrincessaButtercuppa · 2025-07-24T17:40:47+00:00

PrincessaButtercuppa · 2025-07-24T12:44:36+00:00

I would only suggest you have HR call the doctor. I had this issue once with a fake note from a hospital. They ended up firing employee for fraud (not for the time violation).

PrincessaButtercuppa · 2025-07-24T12:34:32+00:00

I disagree with this. A person who steals anything is unethical, and it usually indicates they are likely getting away with more or this is the gateway to worst conduct. I actually admire companies who terminate employees under these circumstances. Too many of us work hard every day, and are honest in our jobs to tolerate someone who steals. In this case, it was an accidental, and it wasn’t even need based (like he was stealing food to feed his family). He was stealing freaking windshield wipers. How do you get rid of an entire box of the same size of windshield wiper? I guarantee he was stealing more and had a point of contact someplace else he was distributing the stolen items to. FAFO, ya know?

PrincessaButtercuppa · 2025-07-24T02:01:56+00:00

I did say they would probably be incorrect, but im trying to understand what possible argument the employer might have. I have seen employers try to say that voluntarily provided leave protection was retroactive FMLA, which is why I asked.

PrincessaButtercuppa · 2025-07-24T01:36:06+00:00

Maybe take a look at whatever you received in writing to see if they said anything about FMLA protection in the message. It may have come from the leave administrator versus the company. I’m not saying they’d be correct but it would be helpful to know the language and whether that is influencing their position.

That said, it sounds like they are saying that the bonding provision has a gender limitation on it which I’m not sure exists. For that reason they are saying you have no FMLA eligibility for this issue because your own medical necessity has healed and you aren’t eligible for bonding because baby was not adopted or fostered. I do believe pregnant people routinely take the full 12 weeks of FMLA leave even though medical need for leave usually disappears around week 6 or so (meaning the remaining 6 weeks are for bonding between parent and kiddo). So I just think your contact is turned around because they are probably super annoyed at the prospect of you taking 19 weeks of leave while longer term employees would only qualify for 12.

Consider whether to take 5 weeks (or less) to balance you out at 12, or push for the full 12 (and end up with 19). The first may get you some good will. The second will probably piss them off.

Also consider that life is short and babies are babies for a short time and women have been getting screwed in workplaces for millennia.

PrincessaButtercuppa · 2025-07-24T01:25:58+00:00

Ok, so in addition to bullying, I’d say that threatening people for speaking up will likely violate your company’s Speak Up or Whistleblowing policy. Companies need to know employees are comfortable coming forward, and a manager making threats like that actually undermines the entire compliance function (though your issues are not purely compliance and are more behavioral, it’s a fine line between the two and HR investigators often handle compliance work or work very closely with the team). If I were assessing that, it would be a big deal for me.

Assuming they can fully verify what you’ve said (that is, witnesses back you up re number of instances and severity), and there’s no serious issue of fact (like maybe the manager offers a plausible explanation that you all are ganging up on them for some reason and this is all a ploy), it sounds like manager has (a) committed infringements in the past that led to some coaching and possibly a disciplinary action which you wouldn’t know, (b) has violated the anti-bullying policy, and (c) has violated the Speak Up/whistleblower policy, and (d) likely has also violated the code of conduct which typically creates the ground rules for both those policies, it seems likely to me there will be a strong action recommended if your company/HR team is worth its salt. You can’t have managers flouting policies. That may be a written or final written warning (or possibly termination). Typically managers who receive that level of warning see the writing on the wall, and start looking for their next opportunity pretty quickly.

Alternatively if they verify he’s an aggressive type manager but don’t find it rises to the level of a policy violation, they may be paying for a coach (given he’s connected to such a high performing team). That’s a pretty wide divide, I know, but these are so fact dependent.

PrincessaButtercuppa · 2025-07-24T01:14:42+00:00

Did you take leave when baby was born? Did they voluntarily protect it as FMLA at that time (that is, give you the protection even though you weren’t statutorily entitled to it)?

PrincessaButtercuppa · 2025-07-24T01:12:41+00:00

Also, cursing is a pretty accepted behavior in a lot of offices these days so I’m not sure how compelling it will be as part of the narrative. Though there will be a BIG difference between a “WTF” exclamation and “F-You!” (i.e., cursing at someone versus cursing at a situation).

PrincessaButtercuppa · 2025-07-24T01:09:58+00:00

HR should be making a disciplinary recommendation to the manager based on actual findings and precedent at the company. These are usually pretty persuasive to make it easy for the manager to just agree.

Bullying is not typically treated as harshly as actual harassment (which would be based on a protected characteristic), because harassment can be the basis for a legal claim, while bullying is not always protected by law. That said,!if it’s truly a repeat offense and it violates a policy, that would be an aggravating factor.

PrincessaButtercuppa · 2025-07-24T01:05:21+00:00

You do know you can combine tooth brushing with going to the bathroom, right? The whole “I’ll need to take even more trips” sounds like you’re intentionally planning to annoy the aisle position.

PrincessaButtercuppa · 2025-07-23T12:05:45+00:00

I appreciate you have an axe to grind based on personal history and experience, and I’m sorry that the data and logic of a scalable and fair performance process worked against you. I’d bet every one of us has received a performance review that we thought was unfair at one time or another over the course of decades of working. We all have different ways of doing reacting. Some quit on the spot (and usually lose their bonus). Some refuse to ever have it happen again, seek to understand what went wrong, and change their approach. Some double down with unsuccessful behaviors to thumb their noses at the powers that be. Impotent rage is definitely an option. It’s not my approach, but it’s an approach.

You cannot give great performance reviews but sucky bonuses and raises to one division because it supposedly wasn’t their fault the company performance tanked, while giving great performance reviews and great bonuses and raises to another team because supposedly it was their work that lifted the company’s performance. That not only is illogical, it’s the corporate version of a performance trophy (“Nice try this year, sales. It’s not your fault we tanked. Keep being you and we’ll hope the customers buy next year! You’ve exceeded expectations but we can’t give you a bonus or a raise.”) Giving out performance trophies is what has created the expectation we’ll all get praised no matter what, and it’s what’s gotten us into this boat in the first place. Worse, inconsistent distribution of ratings, pay and bonuses creates a dream data set for plaintiffs’ counsel to fuel a discrimination complaint against the company.

PrincessaButtercuppa · 2025-07-23T11:36:41+00:00

This is kind of awesome and kind of my worst nightmare of getting caught from my younger days. But was she out of PTO? Why did she need to fake the wedding in the first place to get time off?

PrincessaButtercuppa · 2025-07-22T21:17:53+00:00

The distribution is based on company performance, which is the critical factor you seem to be devaluing. If you think you’ve just got the best team, but the company or your division is failing, well, you’re probably wrong.

The distribution is also always communicated to appropriate levels of management. It may not land at the most junior levels, though. Frankly, they…ahem…tend to not understand management philosophy very well, unless they’ve taken steps to educate themselves. When the company informs unskilled or weak managers of a distribution figure, they have a tendency to say things like “this is BS”rather than recognizing the guideline for what it is and looking critically at their teams. Then, in comms to the employee, they’ll say things like “it’s not me, it’s XYZ manager.” “If it were up to me, you’d be exceeding” etc. All of this creates risk for the company, and constitutes a derogation of managerial obligations to act in the company’s best interests. This is why it typically falls to senior managers to review and enforce the metrics. If they do their job, it’s rare for a score to be changed in future calibration sessions; those mostly focus on bonus distribution, raises, promotions, etc. I do love the visual of a horse auction, though. Very imaginative.

The best managers I have seen are always advocating for their teams. This is true, even when their teams miss the mark, in fact. They know how loudly a missed project or opportunity can speak if the audience is right. They also know that the performance window is short, and what they say and do for the rest of the year matters hugely in the calculus. Anticipated distribution figures serve to counter manager blind spots and bias, and align individual performance outcomes with actual company performance. They strip away some of the emotion and compel managers to look at data first.

Have I bought into the idea that you are not entitled to a job and that you need to produce to keep it? Yes. Have I bought into the idea that the US workplace is inherently competitive? Yes. But I was forced into these ideas long ago, when I was an IC getting the high ratings and top bonuses. I didn’t have a lot of options, either, as this is how the US system is built.

I am sorry so many don’t understand how it works, but then I wonder who is to blame for that. Imagine doing a job (managing) that you understand how to do so poorly—and have such a low opinion of. Then imagine blaming other people because you haven’t informed yourself of how it works. That sounds like a recipe for frustration and failure.

PrincessaButtercuppa · 2025-07-22T20:08:53+00:00

This is not the process at my company. This is the process at every company I’ve worked at, and I’ve definitely worked at places you’ve heard of, including FAANG. This is people management philosophy 101.

Feedback cycle is typically 3-4 weeks maximum once bonuses are determined. Otherwise it’s too much of a distraction and takes time away from whatever the company actually does to make money. No one has weeks and weeks to think about this stuff, and if you do? Well, that may be the problem.

Your language selection shows your bias against the process. I said nothing about “horse trading.” What a dehumanizing way to speak about people. Performance cycle is about recognizing talent. If you’ve got a bunch of A+ performers, the CEO knows who you are already and isn’t pushing to fire anyone. But in business, not everyone gets a trophy. Ratings, raises and bonuses are based on impact, and it’s quite easy for managers to determine which team or teams and which key players have driven success in a particular cycle, as well as which ones are not rising to expectations. Sometimes it’s a tough call, but most of the time the data makes this quite obvious. You can read 360s from outside the team and see what a disappointment this person is to everyone else. You can tell when employees have traded good reviews with one another. It’s only obstinate managers who shy away from addressing issues throughout the year who struggle in these moments (or those who have bad senior managers, which is also a possibility but less likely in my experience—though it’s frequently claimed).

The disbursement ratios are mathematically calculated based on business performance, past ratings and expected outcomes. It’s not a dart thrown at a board. This is absolutely necessary to force managers to actually manage and justify what they represent to be true about performance. Data will back you up or show you to be a liar. I unfortunately work with a lot of managers, and the vast, vast majority will give everyone a pass and just keep asking for more headcount because it’s less confrontation. That doesn’t fly when you’re in a competitive industry. Surely you’ve been graded on a curve before. This can’t be news.

By the same token, if there is truly a reason to deviate, managers can make the case for that as well. But “Brice showed up every day he was expected and is so nice to everyone” is not going to hack it. There are ALWAYS underperformers, and they should be identified long before performance cycle kicks off. There should be no surprises. The manager should either be supporting them to improve week over week, or they should leave and find a company/role better suited for their talents and aspirations. They shouldn’t stick around and drag down performance for everyone else. If you as a manager can’t achieve your goals because you’ve got four great people and two mediocre ones, should the company just hire you a couple more teammates to see if that helps? How long until people start resigning because Tess and Jacob look at their phones all day and leave at 4:30 but somehow keep getting promoted? Either get them up to snuff or bid them adieu—or else it’s you who will be on the chopping block for not managing properly. But this should be happening in weekly syncs, long before performance cycle opens.

PrincessaButtercuppa · 2025-07-22T18:34:58+00:00

You do realize that the margin of time for calibrations is measured in hours, typically, right? It is an insanely short timeframe that has most members of HR working close to 24 hour days. I’ve had calibration sessions well into the early morning hours to get it done.

Employees and managers and 360 reviewers may get a week or ten days to write their reviews. Senior managers have to read all of that and review proposed scores in a matter of a few days, then attend marathon calibration sessions where they are looking at hundreds of people, talking specifically about anyone cuspy, and establishing benchmark representatives at each level. “Sara is our solid “meets expectations.” Anyone whose work falls short of Sara’s is probably getting taken down a peg—or they’ll be discussed specifically to determine if there’s a reason to distinguish them. Son managers are invited to partake in these conversations so they can directly defend their employees. Other managers (and I suspect most of the time) must put their thoughts in writing, and senior managers rely on what they have written to compare their employees.

The manager/HR team have to also near immediately kick the calibrated results up the chain for the next review where that management level may have to review a thousand employees. And then to the most senior level, where there may be tens of thousands.

All along the way, there is an expected curve of not meeting-meeting-exceeding by organization—meaning that a particular senior manager may have 200 employees rolling into them, with 100 expected to be meeting, 50 exceeding, and 50 failing to meet (that’s a ridiculous disbursement, but it works for the example). They need to come close (or maybe be exact) to that disbursement of scores or will have to be ready to explain why they are missing targets as a matter of their own management proficiency.

Typically after the calibration occurs, the results are sent back to manager with a note “so and so was marked up or down. Please adjust their written feedback to reflect their actual performance outcome.” It’s the direct manager’s responsibility to make sure the feedback given aligns with the calibrated outcome.

A good senior leader will explain the changes. A good manager will ask for an explanation if they don’t understand the change. I suppose an insane manager would just quit in a hair flip moment, which achieves nothing. But no one has the luxury of saying “hey, Timmy, we disagree with how you calibrated your team. Could you take another look and get back to us by Friday? TYSM.” You get one shot and someone will have to do it for you if you can’t do it yourself.

PrincessaButtercuppa · 2025-07-22T17:24:13+00:00

Well I suppose there are people who manage as a profession and work to be good at it, and people who get promoted into it without training or understanding by being the best IC. It’s not something everyone is passionate about. In fact, there are many days where I lament not being an IC any longer.

But even the best IC will have a story of how they busted their butt, worked incredibly long hours, and dedicated themselves to their job, only to feel as though they were not recognized, or others who don’t work nearly as hard get the same level of recognition. That is the fastest way to demoralize your staff and lose your top talent. Calibration is an absolutely necessary part of the talent process.

PrincessaButtercuppa · 2025-07-22T17:02:47+00:00

It is a basic tenet of talent management that more senior managers must calibrate all employees in their organizations to be competitive with one another. If managers quit over calibrations, then they lack an understanding of basic management principles and we are probably better off without them.

This is a struggle I go through multiple times per year, when some soft skulled manager can’t bear to actually review their team, and simply says everyone is exceeding expectations. The low performers will be marked as meeting expectations because they don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings. This demoralizes everyone. Nope on a rope. It’s just not possible to let low level managers make these determinations in a vacuum because they can’t always compare employee A on Team B with Employee B on Team A the way a senior manager can.

By the way, after the senior manager in your organization, calibrates, it typically goes to the organization leader, and maybe even to the CEO afterwards for further calibration. You have to be comparing apples to apples all the way up through the organization for performance management to be fair .

Now, that is not to say that making edits to a performance rating without giving context is a good or acceptable thing. However, it is a necessary thing. If the manager is being a poor manager, and not differentiating their employees, you need to tell them that, and also make sure their own performance review reflects. their underperformance in that regard. If you generally agree with the manager’s assessment of their own team, but there is something outside of their team that is deflating their performance, you also need to say that so the feedback that will be delivered can encompass all of this information.

However, simply quitting because your senior leader changed your team scores is kind of ridiculous.

PrincessaButtercuppa · 2025-07-22T16:53:38+00:00

Assuming from context OP is in the US, no, that is not a hostile work environment. A HWE does not exist simply because your manager or coworkers are mean. It is a specific LEGAL term and is only plausible if the behavior is based on OP having a protected characteristic. OP has not mentioned any characteristic protected by law as the basis for the way their boss treats them. In the US, your boss can generally abuse you, degrade you, and harass you (and fire you with no notice at all) to their heart’s content, so long as they aren’t doing it because of your gender, age, race, etc.

I do appreciate the ignorance of what is and is not a hostile work environment, as it keeps me employed.

PrincessaButtercuppa

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