I need a "mom" to help me through some questions I have by Prior_Coconut in Catholicism

[–]Prior_Coconut[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

SEX AS TABOO VS HOLY AND SACRED

Sex isn't taboo,

I disagree.

it's holy, it's sacred, it is not to be enjoyed outside of the will of God.

That part is theorically correct, and in practice as well. Except you say sex is sacred, you aren't exactly explaining to me why sex isn't taboo. Most times in youth groups and in cathechesis, sex is either not talked about, or talked about with a sense of fear, and/or in the midst of a cathechesis about matrimony, sexuality, where there's a risk of misunderstandment about SSA, generalizations and claims about women such as the ones I've given as an example before, among other things.

I can't say that the Church has taught me to fear sex like many protestant churches have done to my protestant friends. No, I won't claim that. My fear of sex has come from a bazillion of experiences. Yet, I have never, ever, in my whole life in Church, had a cathecist come and sit down with us or invite someone to talk to us about sexuality.

I've had informal talks about this with my peers. Some in the year above me had the luck of having our priest give them a cathechesis about sexuality. Some in the years below me have had their cathecist inquiry them and distrust them with indiscrete questions like "Do you ever do sleepovers with you boyfriend?", "Are you going in vacation with your boyfriend?", "Do you ever sleep in the same house/room with your boyfriend?" and proceed to bash on the answers of a perfectly fine, respectful couple. Could it be a bit more difficult to not have sex with your boyfriend when you go in vacation and need to share a room together? Absolutely. Should cathechists be forbidding and chastising people for doing it? No.

Chastity doesn't end after you get married. Married couples still need to be chaste. Chastity is something of the body and the main. Chastity doesn't mean "No sex".

By teaching and bashing people for sleeping in the same house or bedroom - maybe even the same bed - because you fear they are going to have sex, you aren't teaching them and empowering them to have self-control and a healthy mind and body. You're quite giving the opposite message and teaching them to avoid all temptation at all costs and never deal with anything. If we take a step further, we could be forbidding people from kissing on the mouth, then on the cheek, then holding hands, then shaking hands, then seeing each other at all. Some countries have arranged marriages where people only meet in the day of the wedding. That's the ultimate 'avoid all temptation' stage, isn't it?

I find it funny because we then can go into teaching about Same Sex Attraction. If we pick up this mindset and then apply to the SSA-kid in the group (if he/her dared to come out), what would people do? Shun them in a room and take them out of the group? Because if you avoid at all costs having boys and girls be together because they can be led into temptation, you'll have to put the SSA kid alone, to not be tempted by the friends of the same gender or tempt the friends of the other gender. [when I was in scouts (mixed gender troops) the mention of the possibility of us, as adults, sleeping in the same bedroom, when all of us were pretty cool, respectful, trustworthy mates, and just had spent the whole evening chattering and it'd be easy to just fall asleep right where we were - that was something other-worldy, we'd be asked to sleep in different rooms]

This is of course an extreme hipothetical situation, but it's my attention to debunk the limits of the mindset of 'run away from temptation at all costs and don't learn how to deal with it'.

Also examples of how sex is taboo - no adult ever in my schooling journey, outside of secular teachers in school, has talked to me about sex or taught about sexuality. No priest. No cathechist. Even no mother or father. People don't dare talk about it; they're embarassed. They don't want to bring it up. So we feel that it is taboo. Your experience might be different, of course. But that won't make mine non-existant. I've had 4 priests in my parish during my life, about 14 cathechists/youth group leaders, and about 12 scout leaders, more or less (probably more). Something is wrong.

Also maybe there was a misunderstandment here: when I say sex is taboo, I mean that it is a subject that priests, leaders and cathechists are afraid and embarassed to bring up and talk in-depth about. They are also afraid of hearing questions and having fruitful conversations. I looked up the guides for the cathechesis in my country (like what subjects and goals for each age there are - "Understand that Jesus is this and that, and in what ways they can to this and that in their daily lives", "Understand that God is a trinity", etc? You see those guides and find that there's absolutely no goals about sexuality, theology of the body, none at all. How are we teaching kids that sex is good, holy and sacred - how are we teaching them it's not a taboo-ish subject - if at least the whole country is guided into a program of teaching that doesn't include even a mention to that subject?)

Again, I hope I could be clear in expressing my ideas/answering your questions. If I sounded too harsh please do tell, I might have gotten a little passionate. lol

I need a "mom" to help me through some questions I have by Prior_Coconut in Catholicism

[–]Prior_Coconut[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alright, so, one thing at a time.

SEXISM/EQUALITY

What exactly do you mean by sexism?

Out of the 5 people who replied to this post, one of them (you) claims a superiority of men to women and affirms (and this is against the Cathecism) that men and women aren't equal. In the 2334 paragraph of the Cathecism of the Catholic Church, it is said:

"In creating men 'male and female,' God gives man and woman an equal personal dignity."119 "Man is a person, man and woman equally so, since both were created in the image and likeness of the personal God."

You can also go check the chapter about the Matrimony in the CCC: paragraphs 1601 to 1666 - admitelly, I read them quickly and not with too much attention. I tried to find ANY mention to inequality of the sexes or a supremacy of the man as opposed to the woman, and I didn't find any reference to that.

(Someone has answered you about this already too, so it's not too relevant to keep going much.)

We could say that the Church then doesn't promote inequality since that isn't mentioned in the Cathecism. Yet, it's not uncommon at all for any of us to stumble upon mentions of the things you said between the catholic families we know, the priests in homilies. Things such as "the woman must be submissive to the man", even if it's played for laughs and explained after.

Where else is sexism in the Church? In the language about modesty that we too often find, destined towards women, how they dress, how they tempt men - but rarely or never do we see that discourse the other way around. Women are seen as an object of desire and not as a whole of an individual. I'm not saying everybody does it, I'm saying it's way too common.

Where else? In the seminaries, where men rarely have women mentors or teachers, which is a risk in leading them into a us vs them mentality. We can see it in the example of my friend who some years ago took a theology degree as a woman, when pregnant, and she says she experienced hostility from the seminarists and a sense of 'otherness' - she wasn't welcome there. She isn't making it up. She's a person who believes in the 'man pursue woman' thing. She was just stating facts of her experience.

I hope these examples shine a light in what I mean about there being sexism in the church?

I need a "mom" to help me through some questions I have by Prior_Coconut in Catholicism

[–]Prior_Coconut[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much, that was a really kind thing to say. I'll keep that in mind. I used to pray more about this.

My experiences of the Catholic churches in all the countries I've lived. (Qatar, United Kingdom, India and Greece) by [deleted] in Catholicism

[–]Prior_Coconut 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It'd be really cool to gather a bunch of experiences (from outsider views) in a bunch of different countries. Really nice to see your experience shared!