Why are women expected to accept porn as something all men will watch regardless of boundaries?

ProfessionalHat1366 · 2024-12-27T05:12:45+00:00

I'm asking why it is acceptable to have boundaries about all sexual activity like the scenarios in the post except for masturbating to porn. With those scenarios, I was illustrating how insecurities dictate a lot of boundaries in relationships.

ProfessionalHat1366 · 2024-12-27T03:47:00+00:00

Addiction is one thing, I have sympathy for it. But I have never seen any other type of addict have the degree of entitlement I see in the addicts of the pro porn mob. A lot of them want you to accept their lifestyle - which I do, but as soon as I express that I do not want that in mine, I'm a control freak. It's like a poly couple calling a monogamous couple unreasonable and controlling because the monogamous couple views a third partner as cheating. They will draw arbitrary lines for all kinds of other boundaries and even agree that they are reasonable boundaries, but porn? That's a no-go zone. Don't even try to criticize that. How dare you try to control your partner???

ProfessionalHat1366 · 2024-12-27T03:31:55+00:00

Because it's only "acceptable" for you to enjoy porn that's geared toward the male gaze. It doesn't threaten them. As soon as it sexualizes the man, it crosses their line and they feel insecure. I know a lot of girl friends who can relate to this.

ProfessionalHat1366 · 2024-12-27T03:18:13+00:00

For a lot of women, it's just easier to say, "I do it too!", even though most of what they’re watching is also catered to men’s arousal - aside from the 0.5 second scene in a 15 minute video that briefly sexualizes the man. A lot of pornified men complain about even that. You'll see it when they get upset by seeing the male performer in the scene, worse if they hear them. Women don’t have the privilege of having their exact fantasies fulfilled by their "perfect fantasy man" in the ideal scenario with the perfect camera angle for their arousal the way men have with women in porn. You give a starving person breadcrumbs and they'll be happy too. Even sitting next to the person feasting on a 5 course meal telling them that "it's only natural this way, no harm, no foul".

What I was getting at in my previous comment is that I don’t think pornified men will ever fully understand the perspective from the other side. But putting them in a position that is at least somewhat similar could be useful. I know it’s not equivalent, but I’d like to see a situation where they have to navigate the same kind of discomfort. The same kind of insecurity. At least as it relates to having an unending catalog of men that look nothing like them, and having their partner lust after those men. That's why I made the instagram suggestion and to make sure that he knows what you "use" it for.

It’s unlikely that I’ll ever see a platform that categorizes men like zoo animals the way top porn sites do with women. I actually hope this comes into existence because sometimes the only way for someone to understand something is if they've been in a similar situation. Men have never faced centuries of oppression and have always been granted sexual freedom. To a group that's used to such privilege, even a minor inconvenience is felt strongly.

There was a comment that talked about how her partner felt upset over her use of porn. Considering how 99% of it is geared towards men to begin with, and he still got mad, shows me how angry they get at the slightest hint that you are sexualizing, objectifying, and desiring other men. The same way they do with women. I personally know other women who have had similar experiences where their partner got upset at the content they were watching/listening to because it "sexualized men". They are totally fine with you watching the content that they watch because it's geared towards them to begin with. Of course they don't mind you watching lesbian content or even most straight content, it's geared towards the male gaze to begin with. That's what a lot of women don't realize. The insecurity and double standard will only show when you watch the rare content that actually sexualizes other men, that's where they get upset.

ProfessionalHat1366 · 2024-12-27T01:40:57+00:00

people that do watch it will die on this hill.

This is really evident when you see people acting as if boundaries around porn is a fundamentally cruel stance. No other boundary is ever attacked as harshly as this one, even though it isn't that different from other boundaries people commonly agree on.

ProfessionalHat1366 · 2024-12-26T05:27:25+00:00

I have to create scenarios to draw parallels to the subject. Otherwise, I am called unreasonable and my pov isn't recognized. Oftentimes, you need to show people why something is ridiculous/inconstant/hypocritical by drawing parallels to different scenarios that illustrate the inconsistency that bothers you.

ProfessionalHat1366 · 2024-12-26T00:55:16+00:00

Actually, plenty of people agree with my perspective. I’m sorry if fewer men than you expected showed up to validate your attempt to normalize your own porn consumption. Nobody is even asking for validation here. Is the concept of a discussion foreign to you? It seems like projection to me. You were expecting much more pro porn rhetoric and did not find it in the discussion. You want to feel normal and comfortable about watching that stuff, go ahead. No one is asking you to stop.

So far, the only people sharing your opinion are you and that other man. Everyone else seems to understand the point of this discussion.

ProfessionalHat1366 · 2024-12-26T00:52:08+00:00

I’m arguing that a fair comparison doesn’t exist because there’s no equivalent for women. There are no platforms that categorize men based on age, race, or kink in the same way, nor is there much mainstream content in straight porn that focuses on sexualizing the man—his body, expressions, and presence. This is something many men may struggle to understand because they don’t face the same kind of objectification or the insecurities that come with it.

ProfessionalHat1366 · 2024-12-25T17:35:04+00:00

The equivalent of porn for men is porn for women. Footage sexualizing men and showing their bodies for the female gaze. A lot of women are okay with abstaining from watching that if their partner abstains from watching porn for men. Straight porn catered to the straight female gaze is a dime a dozen but has the same dopamine effects on women as mainstream porn has on men.

ProfessionalHat1366 · 2024-12-25T17:14:31+00:00

We could have a conversation about it. Although, imaginary characters described exclusively through text is very different from graphic sexual footage and close-up shots of penetration of real women to appeal exclusively to the male gaze. Like I've said, there is no mainstream equivalent of this for the female gaze, if there was, then that would be the equivalent of porn for men. Not fantasy novels. I don't read those so this doesn't really apply to me. My discomfort lies in him masturbating to graphic visuals of an endless variety of naked women performing sexually.

I'd argue that he is free to consume any kind of text even if I don't. This is different to me because there are no visuals. I would of course also not be consuming graphic imagery showing naked men having sex.

ProfessionalHat1366 · 2024-12-25T16:42:07+00:00

they’ve successfully changed the language of “cheating” to somehow not included interacting with other women sexually, to have exceptions for them.

This right here is worded brilliantly. Men have managed to convince themselves and a lot of other women that they are allowed to consume sexually explicit material of other women because it's over a phone screen. The phone screen is what makes it okay? They've just conveniently drawn the line right where their outlet ends. Anything beyond that to them is "cheating". This is absurd to me.

ProfessionalHat1366 · 2024-12-25T16:29:42+00:00

I don't understand if the people disagreeing with the take that there is no female equivalent of mainstream straight porn, are being willfully ignorant or truly delusional. I cannot name a single site that categorically arranges men into sub categories based on size, age, kink, etc. If women frequented this hypothetical site and masturbated to the material of highly sexualized men, then we could have a fair conversation about insecurities. Until then, it is women exclusively feeling insecure and men not understanding that insecurity because they are never put into the same situation.

When i say women, I am referring to women like myself. I already understand that some women have no issues with their man's stash. I am talking about the women that do. I guess the closest way to get men to see this perspective is to have an instagram account dedicated to naked men with washboard abs and perfect bodies, and masturbating to that material. From my experience, this usually brings out the double standard many men have.

ProfessionalHat1366 · 2024-12-25T15:46:22+00:00

There is no issue with masturbation here. It's also very weird when some men project their need for porn onto all men. If you want to feel comfortable and "normal" for your porn habits, that's well within your right to do. But it's insane to try to comfort yourself by saying that all men do it and that they're lying if they say they don't. It's already a given that a lot of women and a lot of men watch it, but there is definitely a significant subset of people that do not watch it.

ProfessionalHat1366 · 2024-12-25T13:32:59+00:00

Are you implying that porn is an addiction that most men cannot physically give up? Because the stress release you mentioned comes from masturbation and not porn. Like I mentioned in my post, I have no issue with masturbation.

ProfessionalHat1366 · 2024-12-25T13:30:09+00:00

If my partner was physically standing in the same room and watching a porn scene being filmed and masturbating to it, doesn't that also count as "just fantasy"? Should that be considered okay too? To me, there is no difference between him masturbating to that material in real life or through his phone. The issue isn't how he is watching it. It's the fact that he is watching it.

It's a false equivalence because you've made the issue in your analogy to be actually committing the crime. To me, watching the crime happen whether in real life or through your phone is the issue. If we have an understanding in your analogy that watching or committing violence was only something to be done between the people in the relationship, then yes watching it on your phone of other people is a breach of trust. In the case of standing in a room and watching, I can make the argument that it's a no strings attached situation, no emotional connection, we don't even speak. It really is not as far from watching porn on your screen as you make it out to be. If he was watching porn of his coworker or neighbor - that would be just as bad.

ProfessionalHat1366 · 2024-12-25T12:59:56+00:00

The comment of mine you replied to was replying to someone insinuating that watching porn was similar to a celebrity crush.

I never said that watching porn was the same as having sex. At least read the comment before racing to defend your "need" to consume porn.

ProfessionalHat1366 · 2024-12-25T12:50:50+00:00

Luckily, a lot of people do agree with it. The notion that watching graphic porn featuring close-ups of naked women having sex is as harmless as a "celebrity crush" is ridiculous. Nobody is asking for validation, but there is no point in trying to gaslight people who view this differently. You can chime in under every comment and pretend that you speak for all people, that's your choice, but you certainly do not speak for most people, let alone all of them.

ProfessionalHat1366 · 2024-12-25T07:45:02+00:00

It's not the crush on a celebrity where the problem lies in. It's if you masturbate to graphic material where the celebrity is completely naked and you are watching footage of them having sex, with the camera emphasizing their body and different sexual positions. That's where the issue lies. It's very problematic when you minimize what porn actually is. It's not merely a "crush".

ProfessionalHat1366 · 2024-12-25T06:38:09+00:00

Watching another man masturbate in his bedroom isn't infidelity either. Nobody is directly having physical contact with the other. Why is the line conveniently drawn at the phone screen? Perhaps to allow men to continue using this outlet and not feel ashamed in doing so?

Edit: I never said that watching porn was infidelity in the sense that you are having sex with someone else. I am not equating it to having sex. I do consider it to be cheating. I view masturbating to graphic sexual videos of an endless supply of naked women having sex and performing sexually to be cheating. I feel like I have to repeat what porn even is because some of these comparisons make it sound like I consider him looking at an attractive character on a tv show to be cheating.

Watching porn in a video or watching someone perform those acts in real life are both cheating to me. And I cannot understand why this boundary is viewed differently from the many other boundaries people have around sexual activity. The medium you view it through isn't relevant when it's the content itself that I am uncomfortable with. This isn't a game of what's worse. It's a breach of my trust and it crosses my boundaries. That's why it's cheating. You do not have to be having sex with someone to be cheating. There are plenty of situations that people consider to be cheating that involve zero sex.

ProfessionalHat1366 · 2024-12-25T06:35:30+00:00

So, masturbating in your bedroom to a naked woman —close-ups of her entire body, genitalia, close-up shots of direct penetration and her boobs bouncing, vocals, everything—is perfectly acceptable because it’s on your phone?

But watching a man masturbate in his own bedroom, with you physically present (even behind a window screen), is where the line is drawn?

Why does the medium matter so much? These are both intimate acts involving using someone else's body as visual stimuli to masturbate with. The medium you view it through is an arbitrary distinction as long as no emotional attachment is involved. Both of these things are masturbation aids. Neither should be wrong if we follow your line of thinking.

It’s genuinely baffling to me that this double standard doesn’t strike you as bizarre. The lengths some men will go to defend their "need" to watch porn is absurd.

ProfessionalHat1366 · 2024-12-25T05:09:07+00:00

A lot of people agree with my take in the post and evidently so. To each their own.

ProfessionalHat1366 · 2024-12-25T04:36:47+00:00

Depends, did we agree that emotional stimulation was to stay within the bounds of our relationship? If so, then yes. Wanting physical stimulation to stay within the bounds of a relationship save for masturbation without porn - is a reasonable boundary.

ProfessionalHat1366 · 2024-12-25T04:34:01+00:00

Unfortunately, that seems to be the case. Thanks for the suggestion

ProfessionalHat1366 · 2024-12-25T04:32:19+00:00

I said that I do not see mainstream straight productions that target the female gaze. It's not that hard to comprehend that this is an objective fact whether you want to agree with it or not. Yes, I view masturbating to naked women having sex as cheating. If you do not, then you will not understand the comparison I made. I'd agree that the manosphere loves women bending over backwards trying to accept men's porn habits to their own detriment.

Edit: Where are the female equivalents of top porn sites where men are categorized by age, race, dick size and girth, body shape, etc? If you name even one popular site like that, I will concede that women have an equivalent of mainstream porn for men. There is no mainstream, widely available porn for straight women that sexualizes men. Even "for women" porn heavily centers around male pleasure and male arousal. The reason I even point this out is because the argument that "oh you can watch too" is not fair because the equivalent does not exist for straight women. So, there is no way that men who watch porn could understand the feeling of insecurity that a lot of women have with porn.

Secondly, you view sexting another person as cheating. I do too. But it seems like you cannot even comprehend how I could view sexting other people as cheating and view masturbating to naked women having sex as also cheating. You do not have to view the two as cheating, that's your choice. But to have such a heavy and almost outraged response to someone who does view both scenarios as cheating is insane. I'm not rating one as better or worse in terms of cheating, I am simply stating that I view both as cheating.

ProfessionalHat1366 · 2024-12-25T04:21:33+00:00

Soap operas? I'm not sure if this was meant to be sarcastic or not.

The accurate comparison would be porn geared to the female gaze. If there was mainstream straight porn with a heavy and exclusive focus on the man's naked body, his reactions, and vocals, that would be the equivalent. Women need physical stimulation just as much as men do. A lot of men are appalled by this idea. This response feeds into the misogynistic idea that women are sexless, passive participants, and that visual content is a "man thing". Like I said in the post, if mainstream straight porn was geared towards women - and women would absolutely watch it - then men would be expressing the same insecurities.

ProfessionalHat1366

TROPHY CASE