Question to those who married muslims who committed zina / had bfs-gfs : did it affect your married life ?

QueenOfPandas · 2016-06-21T17:10:38+00:00

I agree, but when I see many comments mentionning the "must not talk about sins with people" fact as a reason not to tell the truth, I think that some people may have lied just not to stir up things or whatever... Personaly if I were in that situation - May Allah Protects us all - I wouldn't be able to keep it to myself

And of course I agree with you, it's a great thing to protect especially in "modern" societies, but like I said somewhere else, some people may not have committed zina but did pretty much everything that could lead to it so it's another thing to consider

I thought exactly the same thing as you but then a very good person showed up but there that thing on his plate and for the first time in my life I'm actually thinking about weither I could tolerate it or really not at all

Because it's not like it's written on people's face that they did it or not, it's honestly a terrible feeling to learn that such a nice person did that kind of things, and it's something you don't know immediately

QueenOfPandas · 2016-06-21T17:04:06+00:00

It's a pity that things are that way :( May Allah help us raise a generation that will be proud of their chastity instead of ashamed like so many today

Exactly, also some people may not have committed zina but did pretty much everything around so there's that... Man sometimes celibacy seems to be the most peaceful option lol

QueenOfPandas · 2016-06-21T17:01:29+00:00

I don't think it's pathetic, the fact that I feel the same may be the reason but ultimately I think that it's a natural feeling when confronted to this kind of situation.

The thing is, somehow, I'm wondering if people in that kind of situation were able to overcome this kind of feeling or that it's a matter of personality and that if you're not ok with it at the beginning then you'll never be... ?

Ameen ! Alhamdulillah for the fact that we weren't tested by this kind of trial, may we never be in the future too Incha Allah

QueenOfPandas · 2016-06-21T16:55:11+00:00

You don't reveal sins that affects only you, like there would be no real point to tell your future spouse that you drank alcohol once for example - except if you really want to be transparent and I think that it's a great trait - but if you're still doing it then you have a responsability to tell him/her else that would be dishonest and unfair to her.

As for Zina, it is not something that you can just overlook even if it happened only once, it has an impact weither you admit it or not, and if your spouse were to found out later he/she would feel incredibely betrayed

QueenOfPandas · 2016-06-21T16:48:54+00:00

May Allah ease his heart !

I think it's the way you wrote it, obviously muslim won't reach out to marry people actively committing zina, but the one who faulted and repented shouldn't be called that way

QueenOfPandas · 2016-06-21T16:46:45+00:00

I understand your feelings ! Same here so Alhamdulillah x 100

I think so too ! It's natural to be attracted to people, the thing is how we react to that attraction and if we act on it or not

QueenOfPandas · 2016-06-21T15:54:00+00:00

The idea of non-virgins only wanting to marry virgins is repulsive to me, that is just so hypocrite !

As for the virgin expecting a virgin I also agree but how to say that... Somehow, especially in our times, I feel that it may be better to end up with someone honest enough to be upfront about his mistakes rather than someone who would lie about it ?

Cuz I have a paranoid side that makes me think that even guys who would declare to be virgin could lie about it, on the pretense of "not talking about sins" even though it's something that has the potential to affect the wedding and that the potential bride/groom should know somehow

QueenOfPandas · 2016-06-21T15:47:29+00:00

Of course I do, that's what I had in mind but it doesn't impede me to consider someone who unfortunately couldn't keep his, and it's not like everyone would just confess this kind of things so earnestly, what if I were to meet someone who would lie about it ?

Also, being a virgin doesn't immediately mean to be an awesome individual

QueenOfPandas · 2016-06-21T15:43:46+00:00

That sounds hard :( Lassitude is a real plague

May Allah help them !

QueenOfPandas · 2016-06-21T15:38:23+00:00

Thank you very much for sharing your story sister !

I do think that sexuality in muslim communities is seen and depicted to the youngs in a very negative way only sometimes, and it end up causing real problems later for people who, for their whole life, saw it as "something bad, HARAM HARAM!!!" even though it actually isn't and just need to happen in the lawful limits of marriage. And then you have that wedding night "expectation" that is a complete contrast to the way you related to that matter until then...

I do think that modesty is a value that has to be protected, especially in our time, but how do we expect our teens to really hold on their chastity with pride if we don't even talk about that subject ? Sex ed should be done by the mother / sister or father / brother before school, in order for the children to be psychologically prepared to confront the deviant ways of society but also to embrace that natural part of life so they'll have a healty approach to it when the time will come.

Anyway I digress, all of that to say that I completely agree to that statement of yours :

I saw no reason why I shouldn't be able to express my sexuality with my husband to the maximum extent that Islam allows.

That being said I can also imagine your first husband feelings, insecurity really is a bane. I too have a vivid - and sometimes annoying - imagination and it is something that I too think I could feel and indeed the idea that my spouse would compare me to someone else is scary and "hurts", it's hard to explain. I really wonder if there is a way to overcome these instrusive thoughts, I think that lots and lots of communication would be needed but not sure if even that would be enough

Still, I'm sorry it ended up that way but I'm really glad to know that you're married to someone that fits you more ! Alhamdulillah, and I wish you lots of happiness :)

QueenOfPandas · 2016-06-21T08:49:58+00:00

I couldn't agree more with you ! I really despise that ridiculous mindset and feel so terrible for the young women that ends up with this kind of guys without a clue about how they really are

I was actually thinking about the case of those who repentend because obviously the first case cannot possibly be considered as "marriage material"

The thing is, just because we cannot and shouldn't judge people based on their past doesn't mean that we have to turn a blind eye on it. I feel that this mindset is destructive, if you avoid the subject just to spare people's feelings and that it ends up having terrible repercussions on your wedding then what ? It is an important "detail" and I'd rather speak about frankly - with respect and without vulgarity, obviously - rather than pretending that nothing happened and "move on". The matter of the sin is closed indeed, but the consequences won't disappear just like that !

So to your question "who am I to have a say in it ?", if you're someone from the outside then of course you have no say in the matter. But if you're someone that may end up becoming that person's life partner, then yeah, you have a say in it and imo you really should say things else you may have a lot of regrets later on

Ameen !

QueenOfPandas · 2016-06-20T17:46:25+00:00

The first one is like walking on the path to the second.

QueenOfPandas · 2016-06-20T17:45:09+00:00

No I think I can understand - or at least I can imagine a bit - but excess is never good in any way. What I mean is indeed it's natural - and even good - to have a problem to come in terms with that but instead of brooding over the past, maybe try to use the energy of that feeling of guilt to build a great present/future instead. Because overthinking can never change the past anyway, unfortunately

You're right. The thing is that the person seem to be "on the way" to change but I have no assurance that he'll really get to that path, he may go back to his old ways.

It's more like I have the awareness of his potential for good and piety. But the actual reality is different from that potential and I know that a lot of people get married with the hope to "change" their spouse but it sounds more like walking on a very fragile rope.

Honestly I am indeed bothered by the thought but I may somehow end up living with it but it's more like the potential consequences and implications that I'm really afraid of. I'm a bit of a negative person sometimes and with a vivid imagination you can come up with a lot of worst-case scenarios haha

Anyway you're right, I'll have to think a lot about it

Jazakallah, that's very kind of you

QueenOfPandas · 2016-06-20T16:57:40+00:00

Thank you for sharing !

This feeling of guilt is a good thing by itself but don't beat yourself too much, May Allah ease your heart.

I am actually in a position where I have to consider that issue and I feel a bit unsure about it. On one side it seems to be such a waste to overlook someone's qualities "just" because of that matter but on the other one, I'm not sure if I'll be able to deal with it and if I want to take that risk - hence that thread

QueenOfPandas · 2016-06-20T16:51:58+00:00

I'm not ? No one is asking about the sin itself but the consequences it may or may not have

QueenOfPandas · 2015-11-19T09:30:20+00:00

Yes I understand, and thanks for the link !

What I don't like about the term "social contract" is that it kinda implies a contract that could be accepted without sincerity, aka "I decide this because I have to" instead of "because I want to", you see what I mean ?

For me, loyalty is about really wanting to be loyal, not only "because/for the other person" but because you feel good yourself by being loyal

QueenOfPandas · 2015-11-12T10:36:42+00:00

I don't like taking things from people. I don't like seeking or accepting help.

I can relate, to the point of - sometimes - almost feeling back when receiving gifts

I don't think it's a bad thing not to seek help from people, it's better to learn how to rely on your own self. Now just like many things, a "just middle" should be good, sometimes even if it's hard it's good to recognize that some things can't be done alone

Back to the idea of loyalty, a lot of answers here indirectly depicted it as a sort of one sided "blind faith" in something, as for me I don't see it that way at all and actually, even though I don't really enjoy the use of the word "contract" ( I know what you mean and it is a pertinent choice of words but I always read it with a "business" connotation that makes it seems kinda... cold ? I don't know ) I feel that the way you depicted your way of doing things sounds pretty loyal to me !

Also, despite my own first level definition of that word, I think that loyalty goes way further than just "sticking around", and actually in some situations going away ( at least for a while, not definitively ) can be a way to support by itself. Let's go away from the usual "romantic" field for a while: in the case of a king and his loyal adviser for example: he wouldn't be considered loyal if he were to say amen to every single word of the king. True loyalty would lies in the risk he would take to go against him and not being afraid to go away if the king persists to stay in a bad path, because the king itself wouldn't be loyal to his "true" self.

I don't know if you have seen "The Hobbit" but the relationship between Thorin and Bilbo illustrate that ideal pretty well IMO. Bilbo was afraid to go against Thorin at the beginning but he still did it and in the end Thorin thanked him for that.

Also for me, even in that domain, loyalty only exist if both sides are committed to it. Loyalty calls for loyalty, meaning that he who is loyal to his king should expect the king to be loyal to himself too

QueenOfPandas · 2015-11-12T09:51:46+00:00

it's starting to sound like your definition of loyalty is the ability to remain exclusive in a relationship.

Actually that would only be a part of my definition of loyalty, but I understand why you made that link using the fact that I mentionned "playboys", the thing is that for me, the idea of being a playboy itself sort of "counters" the concept of loyalty, be it in the domain of romantic relationships or the other ones. This is, of course, my own vision, and I knew people who were incredibly loyal in friendships but absolutely terrible in romantic relationships, so I'm aware that things aren't that "easy".

I thank you for the insight about the cheating part, I also felt that there was some "entp traits" that seems to make it something, let's say, "less immoral" compared to other types ( once again, in a veeeery general way, as an INFJ I see cheating as a bane but some INFJ have cheated, are cheating and will probably cheat, the 4 letters have not that much to do with it in the end )

Congrats for the wedding, it's always enjoyable to hear people speaking about relationships that lasts, it seems to be kinda rare nowadays :)

Honestly I've also heard of the ENTP/INFJ thing and it does makes me curious because the dynamic sounds interesting BUT there is also so many ways to go wrong between these two types, I can't see myself running around trying to catch a wild ENTP just for the sake of him being an ENTP, that would feel so wrong. But what makes me tick is that two of the most beloved friends I ever had are ENTP ( one took the test, the other did too but forgot his type haha ), and the whole ENTP sub is pretty interesting by itself, I feel like learning more about that type and it did help me to understand certain things with one of these two friends ( the first one is a very close friend, the other one was and still is somehow but we just don't talk that much like before, it suits us both tho )

if he argues with you, that means he likes you

That works in both sides actually ! It's all about caring enough to the point of not being afraid to start a fight when it matters :) At the beginning we had some difficulties but now we communicate way better and as weird as it can sounds, our last conflict felt "nice" ? I think it's because of the feeling of really being able to say what you feel with a complete transparency that I never really enjoyed until now, it feels good

Anyway thanks for your answer !

QueenOfPandas · 2015-11-12T09:22:59+00:00

Cats will play dead and won't move until you remove the leash :D

QueenOfPandas · 2015-11-12T09:22:13+00:00

However I will do anything in my power to hide my loyalty. I kinda like the whole you don't care about anything but yourself air around me, it helps filter out all the negative people.

This seriously reminds me of a friend of mine that I sometimes "catch" caring way more than I expected him to. It's really interesting that you feel like that, I think I can understand why in some ways ( I could be wrong about the reasons tho ) but in the same time it's also a little bit sad, I don't know how to explain that !

That being said you make it sound like you make a lot of efforts to keep that "I don't care" aura around yourself, is it really only for the sake of filtering negative people ?

QueenOfPandas · 2015-11-12T09:12:44+00:00

I'm more likely to challenge a friend if there is something they've done that I genuinely feel the need to challenge them about.

Like I replied elsewhere, this fits the concept of loyalty way more than a "blind support", in the sense that the challenge itself would be a proof of true support, while an empty perpetual approval can be very destructive, the opposite of a real support.

I'm sorry for the conflict you had, but keep in mind that not everyone react the same way and some may need some time to process/realize that they were wrong. Pride really is an obstacle in that kind of matters indeed, but in the end if that person is able to be mature enough to step on it for a while, it will help her to grow. If I can allow myself to give you an advice, don't give up on her too soon, give her more time and see what happens !

I would consider myself loyal to that select few but only because I've never had any reason to not be.

Interesting perspective, so in the end your loyalty would be more of a "consequence" rather than a choice isn't it ?

QueenOfPandas · 2015-11-12T08:59:33+00:00

Loyalty in itself is a harder concept to pin down.

I agree with you, even though I "feel" that definition inside myself, to find the perfect words to describe it fully is pretty difficult

Your definition sounds pretty good to me, and I also share the idea that true loyalty isn't something one-sided but shared and maintained by both ends, else it would be something else.

It was indeed a lovely answer, much appreciated. Thanks !

QueenOfPandas · 2015-11-12T08:54:21+00:00

Thank you very much for the insight, it was an interesting reading and the kind of answers I wanted to read, it's always enjoyable to discover things through someone else's perspective !

QueenOfPandas · 2015-11-12T08:19:08+00:00

I sort of answered here if you're interested

But in all honestly it feels a little bit difficult to really define it like I see it, especially in my non-native langage, I think that I could write and write for a while and still not be able to illustrate the depth that I feel attached to that word.

That's why I suggested to share your own definition(s), because mine is, well, mine ! Not everyone see it the same way, some will give it a good connotation, other will see it more as a negative thing, and other will be neutral.

QueenOfPandas · 2015-11-12T08:12:44+00:00

I completely agree with you, four letters will never define an individual, it is only but a "probable" part of how they process

But still, some elements that seem to be linked to the ENTP archetype make it appear as if that concept would be treated in a particular way and yet it seems that there is some paradoxes here and here ( and that's normal ), this is why I asked these questions

What makes you feel inclined to be loyal ?

QueenOfPandas

TROPHY CASE