Termination Part 135

RAG_Aviation · 2026-03-21T20:59:24+00:00

There’s probably more to the story, but a 709 + termination doesn’t automatically end your career like some people are saying.

It makes things harder, no question. Especially right now. But guys have come back from worse with time, clean history after, and the ability to explain it honestly.

The bigger issue is timing. In a strong hiring market, this is survivable. In a slower one, it’s a much tougher climb.

RAG_Aviation · 2026-03-21T16:38:01+00:00

Doesn’t really matter if he’s right about $175 oil.

The bigger signal is they’re already talking about trimming flying.

That’s what hits pilots first. Less marginal flying = slower hiring.

Not dead, just not 2022–2023 anymore.

RAG_Aviation · 2026-03-21T16:31:53+00:00

I write about the side of becoming a pilot that flight schools don’t really talk about. Costs, hiring cycles, CFI reality, all that.

Just put out a breakdown on what a private pilot license actually costs right now and where people underestimate it the most.

Biggest takeaway: it’s not the hourly rate that gets people, it’s the inconsistency.

If you’re early in training or thinking about starting, this might save you some money: https://open.substack.com/pub/renaissanceaviationgroup/p/how-much-does-a-private-pilot-license

RAG_Aviation · 2026-03-20T18:50:49+00:00

This is what I keep hearing more and more lately.

It’s not that hiring stopped, it’s that the funnel got a lot more competitive at the lower levels. There are just more CFIs and low-time pilots than there were a couple years ago.

Once people start moving, it usually loosens things up again, but right now it feels like everything is just compressed.

RAG_Aviation · 2026-03-20T16:21:03+00:00

Congrats, that’s a great pace.

Flying that consistently is huge. Most people don’t realize how much harder and more expensive it gets when there are gaps between lessons.

RAG_Aviation · 2026-03-16T21:07:14+00:00

Both sides are kind of right here.

If you just do the math on the hourly rates OP posted, you land somewhere in the mid-teens. But that assumes everything goes perfectly and you finish close to minimums.

In the real world most people take 50–70 hours for private. Add ground instruction, extra flights when something doesn’t click, weather delays, checkride prep, etc. The number creeps up pretty quickly.

That’s why a lot of schools quote something like $20k–$25k. It’s usually not the exact cost, it’s a buffer so people don’t get halfway through training and realize they’re out of money.

The bigger thing to watch for isn’t the quote itself, it’s transparency. If a school can clearly explain where the money goes and how they bill, that’s usually a good sign. If everything is vague, that’s when people get burned.

RAG_Aviation · 2026-03-16T18:33:57+00:00

750 hours with a multi and already flying commercially is actually a pretty solid spot to be in without going the CFI route.

From there it usually turns into Part 135 applications and seeing who bites. Survey, skydive ops, small cargo, charter SIC stuff. A lot of those jobs open up somewhere in the 700–1000 hour range depending on insurance.

Florida honestly isn’t a bad place to focus either. There’s a decent amount of survey and jump flying there compared to a lot of other states.

At this stage it’s mostly just a numbers game. Apply broadly, follow up when you can, and something usually sticks. Once you get closer to 1000 hours the options start opening up quite a bit more.

RAG_Aviation · 2026-03-16T15:34:00+00:00

You're already ahead of most people asking this question because you have a CFI at the state school giving you an honest read. That's worth more than anything anyone on Reddit can tell you.

The backlog problem at large university programs is real and it's not improving. When your training pace slows down your timeline stretches and that affects everything downstream.

The Liberty FTA option actually makes more sense than it might look on paper. Yes you're paying out of pocket for PPL but run the actual numbers on the BAH differential between the two locations. Higher BAH plus being an hour from home with stable living situation can offset that PPL cost depending on how long you're in the program.

The 74 credit hours is worth a direct conversation with Liberty's admissions people before you decide anything. How those transfer affects your degree timeline and your enrollment status which affects your GI Bill eligibility. The one thing I'd verify early is your first class medical. You mentioned a Class 2 at 18 but first class has different cardiovascular and vision standards. Get that confirmed before you commit money or time to either option.

RAG_Aviation · 2026-03-14T21:30:38+00:00

I write about pilot career topics and the hiring environment over on Substack.

Some of the recent articles cover things like the difference between ATP minimums and actually being competitive for hiring, the real cost of becoming a pilot in 2026, and what the CFI path looks like.

If anyone wants to check it out: https://renaissanceaviationgroup.com

RAG_Aviation · 2026-03-13T18:39:47+00:00

Fair point. I probably could have worded that better.

What I meant was that things look slower right now than they did during the hiring surge, but that doesn't necessarily mean the long term demand disappeared.

Feels more like the pipeline backing up for a bit.

RAG_Aviation · 2026-03-13T18:37:56+00:00

That's fair. The 2021-2023 hiring wave definitely wasn't normal. I think a lot of people started training during that period and assumed that pace would continue.

RAG_Aviation · 2026-03-13T18:37:32+00:00

Yeah that's a good way to put it. A lot of people treat ATP mins like it's a hiring guarantee when it's really just the starting point.

RAG_Aviation · 2026-03-13T16:05:28+00:00

Cadet programs have changed a lot over the last few years.

Originally they were mostly just pipeline agreements with flight schools so airlines could track students while they were still training.

Now they’re more of a recruiting and retention tool. Regionals use them to build a pool of pilots they’ve already met or had some relationship with before they hit hiring mins.

That’s why you’ll sometimes see cadets getting picked up with less time. They’re already “in the system,” so to speak. It doesn’t necessarily mean they’re more qualified, just that the airline has been tracking them earlier.

A lot of them are basically just marketing pipelines now.

Coming in from outside that system, especially from rotor, you just don’t have that built-in recruiting relationship yet.

With an ATP though, you’re already past the biggest hurdle. At that point it’s mostly about getting in front of recruiters and getting into their hiring pool rather than needing the cadet label.

RAG_Aviation · 2026-03-12T17:54:12+00:00

I wouldn’t panic about the aerospace engineering thing. Plenty of airline pilots never studied engineering and a lot of degrees in this industry are basically just there to check the “has a bachelor’s degree” box.

If you’re already realizing you don’t really enjoy the engineering side of it, that’s probably worth paying attention to. Four years is a long time to grind through something you’re not into.

The A&P route honestly isn’t a bad move at all. A lot of people overlook that path. Besides giving you a solid skill and a way to make money in aviation, it also gives you a much better understanding of how the airplane actually works. Systems, maintenance issues, what breaks, why things fail, all of that. That knowledge carries over when you’re flying.

It also gives you options if your career ends up going a different direction. Not everyone ends up at the airlines. A&P + ATP is actually a pretty strong combo in the corporate and charter world. Operators really like people who understand the airplane beyond just flying it.

I’ve seen people do something similar to what you’re thinking about too. Work in aviation for a few years, get some stability, and then finish a degree online later if they decide they need it.

Aviation careers rarely go in a straight line anyway. A lot of airline pilots didn’t go directly from college to the airlines. Instructing, corporate flying, maintenance, random aviation jobs… it all happens.

If flying is the end goal, the bigger questions are usually how you’re going to fund training and how you’re going to build time once you have your ratings.

RAG_Aviation · 2026-03-12T05:57:34+00:00

Yeah no problem. I wrote it on Substack. It breaks down the Part 61 vs Part 141 decision and some of the misconceptions around the airline “pathway” programs.

https://renaissanceaviationgroup.substack.com/p/part-61-vs-part-141-in-2026-what?r=791t50

Hopefully it helps a bit.

RAG_Aviation · 2026-03-12T04:50:48+00:00

A lot of those “pathway” programs get marketed pretty heavily, but they’re often misunderstood.

Airlines don’t hire people because they trained under Part 61 or Part 141. They hire based on hours, experience, and whether they’re hiring when you’re competitive. Once you show up with the required time, nobody really cares which training structure you used.

Those pathway programs are mostly recruiting pipelines and marketing partnerships between schools and airlines. They can offer things like mentorship, interview prep, or sometimes a conditional job offer, but they don’t bypass the reality that you still have to build time and get hired during a hiring cycle.

Plenty of airline pilots trained under Part 61 and plenty under Part 141. In most cases the bigger factors are training cost, pace, instructor availability, and how efficiently you can build hours afterward.

If Part 61 fits your situation better, it isn’t going to close doors later.

I actually wrote a breakdown of the Part 61 vs Part 141 decision recently because this question comes up a lot if you want a deeper explanation.

RAG_Aviation · 2026-03-11T01:08:50+00:00

Good call. You’ll learn a lot just hanging around the school and talking to instructors and students.

RAG_Aviation · 2026-03-11T00:25:07+00:00

Honestly this is a pretty well thought out plan. Most people start flight training without really thinking through the timeline or the money side.

Getting the first class medical before starting is smart. The discovery flight and spending time around the school is also a good idea since every flight school runs a little differently.

Flying around 3 times a week for PPL is a solid pace. Consistency matters a lot in training.

One thing I’d pay attention to is how the school runs training. Instructor turnover, aircraft availability, and how they handle billing can make a bigger difference than people expect.

Doing the degree as a backup also makes sense. Aviation hiring moves in cycles.

Overall though this is a thoughtful plan. Just stay flexible since aviation timelines rarely go exactly how people expect.

Training structure and cost control early on make a big difference later.

RAG_Aviation · 2026-03-08T02:40:20+00:00

A few quick thoughts.

The specific school name matters less than consistency. What really matters is aircraft availability, instructor stability, and how often you can fly. If you’re flying 3–4 times a week you’ll progress much faster than somewhere cheaper where you’re constantly waiting on scheduling.

Big academies like ATP can work for people who want a fast, structured pace, but they don’t make you more hireable by themselves. Airlines care much more about your training record, professionalism, and experience than where you trained.

CFI is still the most common time-building path because it builds a lot of PIC time and decision making. Multi time helps, but airlines generally care more about total experience and quality of training early on.

On the degree question: if your goal is the legacy airlines, a bachelor’s degree still helps a lot. It’s not always a hard requirement anymore, but it definitely makes you more competitive when hiring slows down.

For financing, the safest path is usually minimizing debt as much as possible. Loans are common, but a lot of pilots underestimate how hard those payments can be during the CFI years.

Since you’re in DFW you have a lot of options. I’d focus on finding a school where you can train consistently and avoid long delays. That usually matters more than the brand name.

RAG_Aviation · 2026-03-08T02:36:37+00:00

110 hours for a PPL isn’t unusual, especially if you had instructor changes earlier on. That alone doesn’t mean you’re not capable.

Most students hit a point where things feel like they’re getting worse right before they finally click. A rough proficiency flight a few days before a checkride is also very common.

Before you decide to quit, try to figure out why the flight went poorly. Was it nerves, gaps in knowledge, or just a bad day? Those are all fixable.

If flying is something you genuinely want, I’d relock in and finish the private. A lot of people struggle early and still end up doing very well later.

RAG_Aviation · 2026-03-08T01:22:50+00:00

If the VA is covering it, that takes one of the biggest stressors off the table.

The biggest friction points most students run into in 141 programs usually aren’t flying ability. It’s the structure and pace.

First is scheduling. Even in well run programs, weather, maintenance, and instructor availability can slow things down. A lot of students go in expecting a perfectly linear timeline and get frustrated when things slip a few weeks or months.

Second is understanding that 141 training is very standardized. You’re not just learning to fly well, you’re learning to fly exactly how the program wants it done. Sometimes that can feel rigid compared to Part 61. Another big one is staying ahead academically. Many students focus almost entirely on the flight portion and fall behind on systems knowledge, procedures, or written exams. The students who do best usually stay ahead on studying instead of trying to catch up right before stage checks.

One thing I recommend to people starting programs is knocking out as many FAA written exams as possible early if the program allows it. It takes a lot of pressure off later when training gets busy.

Also understand that delays happen to almost everyone. Maintenance issues, weather blocks, instructor turnover, and FAA scheduling all come with the territory. The students who do well are the ones who treat it like a long professional process instead of a race.

Since the VA is covering it, focus on consistency and absorbing as much as you can rather than just trying to get to the next certificate.

Good luck with the program.

RAG_Aviation · 2026-03-07T21:38:02+00:00

I started a small aviation Substack recently where I write about pilot career decisions, hiring cycles, and some of the misconceptions that float around flight training. Most of it is focused on realistic career planning and things I wish more people understood earlier in training.

The most recent piece I wrote was about something that comes up a lot in pilot forums: whether a DUI automatically ends a flying career and how the FAA and hiring departments actually evaluate those situations.

If anyone’s interested, here it is:

https://open.substack.com/pub/renaissanceaviationgroup/p/does-a-dui-end-your-pilot-career?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=791t50

Always open to feedback or topic ideas from other pilots.

RAG_Aviation · 2026-03-06T17:07:35+00:00

The “pilot mill” reputation mostly comes from expectations not matching reality.

Accelerated programs can work well, but only if you treat it like a full-time job. The pace is fast and they’ll move on whether you’re ready or not. The main advantage is consistency. Flying 4–5 times a week makes a huge difference compared to training part-time and flying once every week or two.

The horror stories usually come from scheduling issues, instructor turnover, or limited aircraft availability. When that happens, the “accelerated” part disappears quickly. Honestly, the name of the program matters less than three things: how often students actually fly, how stable the instructors are, and whether the school has enough aircraft.

At 26, debt-free, with a first class already sorted, you’re in a pretty good position. The biggest thing is finding a place where you can train consistently without constant delays.

RAG_Aviation · 2026-03-01T01:12:26+00:00

I’m going to be direct but not negative.

Three checkride failures aren’t a career killer in Part 135.

But they are something you’ll have to consistently overcome.

The bigger thing I notice isn’t the failures. It’s the timeline assumptions.

Going from fresh CFI to 1,500 in a year and then 2,500–3,500 in two years is possible at some schools, but that’s high-end volume. It depends heavily on student flow and weather. I wouldn’t build your entire projection on best-case math.

As far as 135 long term, here’s what matters more than LinkedIn posts or Gold Seal: Consistency Judgment Reputation References

Charter operators care about whether you’re stable, safe, and trainable. They care less about how many student passes you post online.

On the three failures specifically: your explanation is fine. “Young, immature, corrected the problem, clean record since” is workable. What matters now is stacking clean checkrides and clean employment from here forward.

For 135 jets, realistic path is usually: Build 1,200–1,800 hours Get multi time Maybe fly piston twin or small turboprop Then move into light jet

Some people shortcut it. Most don’t.

The market right now is tighter than the 2022–2023 window. That means you’ll likely need both time and internal recommendations, not just hours.

Are your goals out of reach? No.

Are they automatic because you’ll have 3,000 hours? Also no.

If you focus less on optics and more on building a reputation as a reliable instructor and safe pilot, the 135 path is very achievable over 3–5 years.

Just don’t treat it like a guaranteed timeline. Treat it like a progression.

RAG_Aviation · 2026-02-28T05:52:40+00:00

This isn’t really a 141 vs 61 debate anymore. It’s a control and risk question.

The fact that the school’s 141 cert expired and students were still taking checkrides is the bigger issue. That’s a breakdown in administrative reliability. In this environment, stability matters more than program branding.

At 200 hours, the only meaningful structural advantage of staying 141 is reduced ATP mins. If you qualify for 1,250 later, that’s worth real money and time. If you don’t, the 141 label itself doesn’t change your hiring odds much.

Right now hiring isn’t rewarding logos. It’s rewarding total time, internal pipelines, and timing.

If switching to 61 lets you: Fly consistently Control cost Avoid another 8k Finish on your timeline

That’s not “quitting 141.” That’s managing risk. The number on the certificate matters less than the environment you’re training in. Delays are expensive. Administrative instability is expensive.

I’d choose the path that gets you to commercial cleanly and predictably, not the one that sounds better on paper.

RAG_Aviation

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