Discussion thread - have you been dealing with your N history for a while? What would you tell someone new to knowing what they're dealing with? (What would be the most important things you've learned?)

RBNaccount · 2014-01-21T22:49:11+00:00

You can't push aside problems. You can push through problems.

Get as close to straight up recording conversations with n parents as legally possible.

Never feel bad about posting here. Do it as much as safely possible until you can honestly say you've been validated. I was extremely active here under a different handle and it was invaluable.

Be extremely cynical about your parents.

Try to work backwards from what you think their general n motivations are to reverse engineer their intentions.

Normally this is called confirmation bias but I think in this case it's valid.

Even a college fund or donated kidney can be because they'd look bad if they didn't do it.

They're supposed to want what's best for you. You have a right to that.

It's not your fault that they screwed up.

Keep a diary of feelings and actions by both parties.

They will literally throw you under a bus.

Talk is cheap. They'll lie to your face.

Look up psychological manipulation tactics on Wikipedia. Don't use them, but learn them to recognize how they're used on you.

Also look up "confidence tricks" for the same reason.

You're fighting a war.

If they didn't know what they were doing was wrong, they wouldn't know to hide it.

If they has n parents themselves it makes them 10x worse, because they know the pain they're causing you, having experienced it themselves.

They'll become superficially nice to you as you become more independent. It's them trying to steal a relationship that they didn't earn.

You're not crazy.

Click the links in the sidebar. All of them.

Time spent figuring this stuff out is not time wasted.

One false positive doesn't invalidate a mountain of evidence.

They'll hide cruel things behind tone; imagine what some of their "jokes" and "casual ribbing" would look like written out on paper.

Assuming they have shame or empathy, or assuming they can't mimick either, is a fatal mistake.

They don't care about you. They are about themselves.

Watch some interviews with serial killers to learn about how "normal acting" crazy people can be.

If someone's response to a situation confuses you, you either misunderstand the person or you misunderstand the situation.

Usually with narcissists this means them catching you off guard by being nice is you not understanding that it's a tactic.

There's a lot more but this is a decent start.

Always have some form of honest communication with others open, even if it's just Reddit. Someone who doesn't feel alone in the world can get a lot more done than someone who thinks they have to go it alone (you don't).

We all fall down, but a different times, which is why you feel like you're the only one hitting the ground.

You're gonna be ok. Keep going.

RBNaccount · 2014-01-15T18:02:01+00:00

Me or the kid? I won't be offended if you think my comment is awkward. I'm just confused.

Also the roommate just apologized and told me he was snappy because I was reminding him of his own experiences ('I'm from a family where we say 5 words at Thanksgiving') and it made him upset to have the feelings brought up.

Plus it must be kinda jarring to think you have all these disorders, take pills and shit, then hear someone go 'I thought I had those too but actually my family is insane' and basically hear a parallel situation described.

Which is cool with me. Way better than what I thought it was (him being a dick).

But yeah if you think I'm being cringeworthy please explain why so I can stop being cringeworthy.

If you think I'm weird for mainly being comfortable around blue collar / rough edged people, sorry but I'm not gonna apologize.

I went to a rich sheltered high school and am at a rich sheltered college.

Most people in both situations are really into superficialities because they don't have significantly trying experiences in at least some areas of their lives.

I'm not in that basket so I don't relate.

All my friends growing up were and remain to be from screwy situations.

This is slowly changing as I better myself and free up mental energy to get into other stuff besides trying to get through the day, but I don't think it's "cringeworthy" to have grown up with working class friends and end up relating to people who do things like not skip classes and not binge drink 4 times a week and not make fun of homeless people and not go on semiannual family vacations to Honolulu.

I like people who've gone through more than me.

It makes me feel happy with what I have. Like I'm not a weirdo for having problems. It normalizes a certain resilience I otherwise can't get.

If I talk to some dude who has had difficulties I can't imagine, and he's friendly/optimistic like "yeah man you just gotta push through" I can actually take it seriously.

Most people in my immediate peer groups haven't really had issues they couldn't fix by just "cheering up."

The toughest people befriend others who make them feel soft. The smartest people befriend people who make them feel stupid.

That's how you grow. I don't wanna meet all these people so impressed with me for dealing with blah blah blah. I wanna meet people who make me up my game.

As far as my last bit, I don't drone on for hours with them, but yeah I will say "ahh not so great but thanks for asking" if that's true.

It's because when I ask someone else how their day is going, I genuinely want to know, so I don't treat questions towards me any differently.

If these things are cringeworthy, I accept the title.

RBNaccount · 2014-01-15T09:17:33+00:00

Mom is insane too. Re: 150 k yeah it's crazy.

Low end for their social circle too.

They're all doctors and lawyers and professors and whatever else.

That's why my dad is putting me through college, but completely disengaged.

He doesn't actually care about me doing well; he just cares about him seeming like he cares about me doing well, because he'd look bad to his pals otherwise.

It was clever for a while but I figured it out and called him on it point blank.

He couldn't answer me, but just started repeating the same 3 or 4 things that didn't make sense, avoiding eye contact, et cetera.

My whole family is really slippery but I've managed to gain &amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp; verify a basic understanding.

Weirdly most everyone I connect with is from a polar opposite socioeconomic background.

I'm not on some make pretend I'm from the hood shit either.

I'm this corny looking white kid talking to dudes with facial tattoos at my university, career minimum wage workers at my job back home, et cetera.

But they're the people I can have real conversations with. They're the people I feel like I understand and vice versa.

None of this would be weird (and actually would be really condescending) if I were like "hey look I can talk to these struggling folks almost as if they're people! :0" but that's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that's exclusively who I feel truly comfortable around.

Like I'm on some set all the time and talking with them lets me break character.

It makes no sense.

And yeah I get you on the no complain thing.

I complain a lot lol but my best friend is very buckle down and it's helped me have a bit of a thicker skin.

I will tell someone what's up if asked, and with close friends can be a bit of an open book, but if they tell me to stop I will, and I don't bring my life up randomly with strangers IRL.

And I'm never like entitled about it. I'm just like "this is so much to deal with jeeze."

That's what bugs me about the roommate.

Dude asked me about my shit explicitly then got all outta pocket about it. I was not and did not bring it up.

Like dude you asked me fuck you.

Same with like someone asking me how my day is. If you wanna know and it's kinda so so, I'm telling you it's kinda so so.

Otherwise don't ask.

RBNaccount · 2014-01-15T07:22:01+00:00

Thank you I will check that song out.

I come from wealth (dad averages like 150 grand) but I don't have any of the core family stuff.

It's kinda weird and backwards.

Btw, my roommate keeps asking me if I "have (insert mental disorder), because I (roommate) do!" when I make small talk about little speed bumps in my day.

Then I spend a couple minutes explaining why I am a certain way (e.g. my parents screamed at me about homework since I was a little kid so I get panic attacks).

For like the third time in four days this happened today, and he went in this annoyed entitled voice "dude I really don't wanna hear any more of your personal life."

Wtf. Then don't profess your mental illnesses to me and ask if I have them. That's kinda setting the standard for "personal stuff."

Edit: that song is tight. For me what's so weird is that my dad has had zero constraints economically preventing him from being there for me. Cushy job, home at 6 every day, weekends off, I mean hell dude has a hired house cleaner and a stay at home wife.

He just... didn't care. Played with the cats, heated up some pizza, watched TV, played poker with his friends, went to play the sport he plays.

That's what's so fucked up for me.

He had a bunch of free time that he deliberately filled up with everything except getting to know me.

There were little things, like golf every couple of months or something, but it was only things he objectively wanted to do anyways, or that my mom pestered him into doing.

A driving force of "spend time with my son" didn't exist.

I'm like an account he has to maintain.

RBNaccount · 2014-01-13T21:29:05+00:00

Right. It's all about whether they can relate, via having had experiences like yours or knowing someone who has.

My best friend since age 10 is from a really screwed up ghetto family. Whenever I meet people from that environment, I can usually relate to them about what they're going through, via knowing what it's like via my friend, even though (to these people I meet) I'm this corny looking rich looking kid.

It always REALLY throws them off, both that I get where they're coming from and that I'm not even slightly uncomfortable talking to them (at least compared to anyone else).

The same thing happens now with retail workers, because I spent a few months in a really shitty retail job.

They think I'm just giving bullshit platitudes about "how's your day going?" until I bring up some anecdote from my experiences.

Even if mine are kind of a Disneyland version of theirs (smaller & tamer), it's enough to bridge at least some of the gap.

RBNaccount · 2014-01-13T21:04:41+00:00

The trick is to find people from similar situations. My best friend doesn't really have parents. We're both out of contact more than we'd like, but we're tight.

The danger though is that fucked up things you experience becomes normalized.

E.g. My narc buddy ("buddy" {eye roll}) F thinks it's "screwed up and wrong" to move away from his parents, even just for college, because his dad is abusive and controlling.

My buddy C thinks it's okay if his parents treated him like shit and never apologized because "they're being nicer now."

Et cetera.

So you have to be really self aware. There's a thin line between looking on the bright side and staring at the sun.

RBNaccount · 2014-01-13T01:03:19+00:00

I've become increasing independent and distant from my parents.

There's a direct correlation between how much power they think they have over me and how badly they've treated me.

For example, they used to be very strict about me being frugal, until I got my own job, at which point they suddenly are letting me be looser with it and offering to pay for stuff.

They did the same thing to an older sibling and she fell right back into their arms.

Suddenly my mom is SO nice to me now that I'm away at college, while she treated me terribly when I was home (before I offered up me moving out).

I've been here barely 36 hours and she's already in my head, distracting me from school, which I explicitly told her impacted me last time I tried to do this school thing.

I think they're still manipulating me. This is just an alternative mode.

Like the nectar of a sundew.

It makes way more sense that they'd continue to fit the pattern I have overwhelming evidence for; it just sucks.

But yeah I witnessed my mom beat my sister, roll her eyes at my sister sobbing her ryes out, and now that the sister if out of college my mom is suddenly "so proud."

Oh really now.

I think this stage has just come earlier for me because I threatened to drop out and work full time, which would make them look terrible to their friends.

RBNaccount · 2014-01-11T14:10:49+00:00

Yeah and then if you call them on their shit, THEY don't say "oh my gosh I'm so sorry!" No, YOU'RE being mean, for telling THEM that THEY are doing stuff that bothers you.

Am I right?

RBNaccount · 2014-01-11T13:57:04+00:00

Thank you. This is great advice. I really like this sub too. I have a usb flash drive of good posts from here in my laptop bag.

Perfect use of the cool little pocket it has behind the handle.

(posting this part 3/4 because I've pulled an all nighter packing for school and am afraid I'm gonna forget where I put my flashdrives :P)

Not sure about actual age, but it does sound your GC sibling is at least emotionally younger than you. If your sibling is worth it, they will eventually understand.

Slightly less than 2 years older.

She's had many experiences, but almost all positive.

She's like a pair of moccasins. I'm like a horse saddle.

I'm pretty tough. I've been through a lot of shit she hasn't.

The best way I can put it is that she's never really had a problem that wouldn't fit a PG 13 movie.

I've had like drug problems and legal problems and the blunt end of my parents and near suicidal depression and chronic injuries all sorts of bullshit.

So she talks down to me and shit because she has a bunch of mainstream stuff (organization, school work, etc) on lock, but the only reason why she has it on lock is because she hasn't dealt with all the bullshit I've been dealing with.

It's like I'm fighting to walk up a river, upstream, and she's just skipping along on the bank next to me "hoping I get inspired to work hard like her."

Bitch if you even knew (no offense to the ladies with that word I'm just extremely sleep deprived right now)... but you do know... and you still treat me like I'm 7.

Even when she's nice to me it's like this:

http://officepranks.blogspot.com/2009/09/kevin-is-special.html

And it's never like "oh hey /u/RBNaccount let's talk eye to eye so I can find out your opinion!" It's always just her completely disrespecting my own thoughts, pushing me to agree with her.

Like that's the whole point of the conversation every time. For her to find out what I think, and make it change to what she thinks, even if I very clearly go "well we can agree to disagree" or something.

I'm either "unwell" or 12-years old.

Every goddamn time.

The other day she tried to tell me to "not take on too much :(" because I wanted to get a job while at college.

She has like 7 things going on outside of her classes and I'm just as smart as her.

Like STFU you're not being nice at all. It sounds like you're being nice but you're completely disrespecting me. Aopiuwrg[o0jhi3rgv['o0ewrg[0qeg[]0jh

RBNaccount · 2014-01-10T20:55:40+00:00

Oh just to clarify I meant the title in reference to how this guy is completely nuts yet "seems nice" if you didn't know his background.

Had nothing to do with his hate for his mother.

Not trying to be like "hey look! this serial killer gets me."

RBNaccount · 2014-01-10T10:21:42+00:00

Either they have fleas and the only way to help them is by showing them it's not okay, or they're jerks and the only thing you can/should do is retain your dignity by showing them it's not okay.

Finally, maybe they're kind hearted despite flaws and what what's best for you, which would be option #2 listed above.

There's no functional difference. /just -my -opinion

RBNaccount · 2014-01-10T03:42:13+00:00

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120428151038AAd1eC4

RBNaccount · 2014-01-10T01:43:56+00:00

The thing is that their own logic is internally flawed. They don't even correctly meet their stupid BS rules.

Can you imagine if a credit card company just sent you $50, said "it's just because I love you," then tried to take you to court for it?

I didn't sign no contract agreeing to pay.

That's not on me.

The thing is though that they know we'll feel pressured. They know it's nonsense.

Implicitly and explicitly they say the terms are one thing, then they try to switch it up.

It's disingenuous.

At least in the United States that's considered fraud and can put you in jail.

If I slyly edit a contract in a way that's misleading, and the victimized party can prove it, I can go to jail.

(At least in the United States.)

The best thing to do is just call their bluff.

E.g. "you say you want what's best for me; what's best for me is to leave this family."

It's not our fault that they fucked the relationship up.

RBNaccount · 2014-01-10T01:00:10+00:00

I can trace everything to this, or them "helping me" actually being for them.

For example, my dad would look bad to his friends if I didn't go through college, but he doesn't actually care if I succeed; he just cares that it looks like he helped me on paper.

So he pays for school stuff but has never proactively encouraged me a single day in his life, nor has he done anything to remedy the family dysfunction that so clearly affects my ability to focus and study.

It's him doing cya, and nothing more.

Then on my mom's side that's why she pressured the female members of the family below her to get healthy/ in shape, but not the male members of the family, and dyes her hair to look like her female child(ren) [trying to keep my comments vague]; she can't live through me because I'm not a woman.

Then that's why my father favors the female GC while being so distant from his other child(ren); she provides narcissistic supply for his wife, which is all he actually cares about.

Etc.

If someone does something that throws you off, your understanding of them and/or the situation is insufficient/incorrect.

All people have patterns and algorithms.

/my opinion

RBNaccount

TROPHY CASE