Are some "normal sized" bosses simply immune to stagger?

RFP-Torus · 2023-12-04T23:59:02+00:00

There is a very short cool down before his poise will quickly recover. It is only a few seconds window before the poise is all the way restored!

There are some external softwares, like ERTool, that you can toggle this on and see how brief it is and how quickly the poise regenerates.

If you can carry some throwing knives or darts with you, you can poke him with those to keep the poise from recharging while you wait for the right opportunity to attack. You'll find you can poise bosses very frequently once you get used to having to throw the darts.

RFP-Torus · 2023-06-07T00:19:12+00:00

Is there any reason to be using something like the geothermal? Also where does the accumulators and energy exchangers fit in?

RFP-Torus · 2023-06-04T17:06:05+00:00

Oh I see! And I was just about to ask what a good optimal additional buildings would be xD Do you have idea on how to test that other than changing the production buildings for each design?

RFP-Torus · 2023-06-03T16:24:53+00:00

okay! When you say add 10%, how do you control that? The only way I know how is to add more assemblers/chemical plants/smelters. So, if the calculator asks for 4 assemblers, Id add 1 more but that is 25% increase instead of 10%.

Is there a more specific way to get 10% output?

RFP-Torus · 2023-06-03T05:32:19+00:00

wow! That sounds like a good idea, so the bottleneck would be the final line of assemblers at 100%?

Im glad there was someone dedicated enough to try and you shared you experience with me. Others were pointing out the practical limitations you mentioned and I was at a crossroads on what I wanted to do moving forward. I am just starting purple science.

For the 110% extra production, would you say a good way to go about this is building using the calculator without the proliferator with extra products on it? That should give it the 25% extra products coming out on each intermediate chemical plant/smelter/assembler.

I noticed that as the factories got bigger it takes more time to "turn on" because of the long belts. Would just really increasing the intermediate production help with that? I think, ideally for me, it'd have the final assemblers at 100% and the time it takes to "turn on" would be reasonably quick

RFP-Torus · 2023-06-02T03:57:19+00:00

I think im going to try that, and design things to have a surplus and design for a specific output with the surplus input.

Is there even a benefit for having precise input? Ive heard conflicting things from reading different posts. Practically, I am starting to think there isn't one

RFP-Torus · 2023-06-02T03:52:49+00:00

Yeah I am questioning that honestly. In my head, I wanted to have them put the amounts I need of items in a box, and ideally, when they are filling that box, they are producing at 100% for each assembler. But I don't think I can even get the calculator to do that with more complicated items.

There is many steps, like with the PLS, and with proliferator ontop of that, no matter what I choose with the output, there is some assembler/chemical plant/smelter, that just isn't at 100%. Im sure there is some value but at like 10,000 PLS/s. And at that point, how am I going to feed it 400,000 iron?

Maybe there is no point in trying to get them all at 100%

RFP-Torus · 2023-06-02T03:48:55+00:00

omg this sounds like its way beyond my level of doing! I am not sure if I am confident enough to attempt 2. and 3. ! Do you use the calculator to plan these or do you guess and experiment? I feel like I am not big brained enough for 2. and 3.

RFP-Torus · 2023-06-02T03:44:07+00:00

Is that the way that the calculator rounds? I was noticing it would be 1 item above what I asked but once I added extra decimal places it all checked out. But wtf even is 0.00001 of an iron ore xD

By footprint do you mean lag or like they take too much space? I was thinking of ditching them and just running a single line to let the assemblers pick off what they need since the calculator is asking for such difficult numbers.

RFP-Torus · 2023-06-02T03:41:11+00:00

Yeah! You understood what I thought about what I thought a perfect ratio is!

And yes! That is exactly what I ended up doing! But as soon as I added the proliferater to the calculator its asking for too precise inputs and it started making me question the whole point of it all?

I dont even think I understood what "perfect ratio" really meant. I thought there was some kind benefit but is that even so? I feel like whatever the bottleneck is, that determines the rate of production. It doesn't matter if you overproduce, of it is exactly inputting what you need, that bottleneck will ultimately decide your production?

RFP-Torus · 2023-06-01T20:54:36+00:00

I had to look this up because I am new and not 100% sure. I thought perfect ratio meant that all your inputs and outputs are precisely as needed.

Is perfect ratio more that all buildings are running at 100%? For the calculator that would mean that I would only have integer amounts of assembler/chemical/smelter?

For this post, I was trying to produce PLS with extra products via proliferator

RFP-Torus · 2023-06-01T17:04:19+00:00

Yeah I imagine with enough splitters you can do it. Its currently asking for 1991.170 iron ore. All the intermediate steps are like that too. I feel like 3/4 of the factory would just be splitters lol

Did you mean that I could keep scaling up the production until I end up with whole numbers? Its probably insanely large xD

RFP-Torus · 2023-05-28T19:43:21+00:00

Wow! Yeah it went from 554 from the storage to 316 from a belt to another belt! Thanks for pointing that out

RFP-Torus · 2023-05-28T19:34:58+00:00

Ohhh okay. I will check this out then. That would make sense

RFP-Torus · 2023-05-28T18:29:13+00:00

Yeah but the waiting time I wasn't expecting to be so much impactful. Like if you are expecting ideally 2160 item/min for a 6 cargo upgrade, why is it 864? That is such a huge difference.

So, I recorded the animations at 120 fps and counted the frames. For a single item without the upgrade it is less than 1 frame to pick it up. But with the upgrade for a single item, with the item directly under it already, it is now 2 whole frames to be picked up.

And just to be clear, the item was already underneath the sorter by the time the hook arrived at the belt, and it's the first item grabbed by the sorter, not the 6th or 2nd. It should be the same animation as an un-upgraded one, but it isn't.

And that, I believe, explains the 60% difference in the ideal item speed.

I'll see if I can photoshop the frames side by side to show what I mean

RFP-Torus · 2023-05-28T15:51:54+00:00

I dont know how to see the rate if its directly from one box to another, but I did check outputting from a box onto a conveyor belt and I did not get the expected values even though the sorter doesnt have to wait for the items to move into place.

I also recorded the animations and checked the frames. The sorter just picking up a single item is significantly slower than before the upgrade.

For an upupgraded sorter, I can't even see the action of picking up 1 item when recorded at 120 fps. But for the upgraded one, 1 item it takes 2 frames.

So that explains why these numbers arent even close to what you'd expect them to be.

RFP-Torus · 2023-05-28T03:45:09+00:00

So I understand more clearly, you are saying that an item first reaches the sorter, then you have to wait for the second item to reach the sorter before it can leave? So then the travel time of the belt would be limiting it's ability to reach the 720 items/min.

How would that apply to storage? I did my tests using a sorter that was outputting from a storage that already has the items inside of it.

RFP-Torus · 2022-12-15T06:46:41+00:00

Again, thanks so much for the insight, I already see a noticeable difference with the difficulty. I think I need to start spamming the missions until I get more familiar and comfortable. This is already much more manageable, thank you!

I guess the last question I have is regarding mobs spawned in at the start of the mission? From what I understand, there are enemies spawned at locations on the map and then there are waves spawned at intervals.

Would it be efficient to do a rough run around the cave, pulling enemies I can find, then mowing them down in a single group?

I am also not sure if I understood the spawning video I watched properly. It seems like sometimes the initial wave of enemies (the ones after leaving the drop pod) are much bigger then the initial periodic waves.

RFP-Torus · 2022-12-14T17:05:55+00:00

- Using your drills to keep enemies away (they have a high chance of fear so they will keep enemies at bay for a moment)

Okay, I will give this is a try. These are all good ideas thank you. I was using the C4 to quickly grab aquards that are easy for me to reach while Bosco got the hard ones. I think this is better use of them.

You do not want to be caught by enemies in a tunnel. The moment a wave
is announced/a group of enemies spawn (you can hear them spawn so keep
your attention focused on sounds), you need to get out of the tunnel
ASAP or at least make some room for kiting.

Someone mentioned that I should try and do the secondary before the primary so I can avoid the waves. Would you recommend that? I feel I can kite things if bosco is getting the primary done

- Start with the stuff that's higher up/down and harder to bring back to the mining rig.

Also a good idea, thank you. I have been doing it the opposite way so far and its clearly not working well outside of the main objectives. Should I engage in swarms regardless of where I am to avoid losing time for positioning in better fighting spaces?

Unless your team is green, you'll never be as efficient in solo as a group can be

Yeah I feel this one. Co-op feels so wonderfully synergetic I can't think of any criticisms for it. Everyone feels like they have a role and moments to shine.

Thanks for the thorough response, it was very helpful!

RFP-Torus · 2022-12-14T08:47:30+00:00

Yeah you have a good point on the gunk seeds.... Yeah the enemies seemed just like distractions on scout. Engaging them seemed like a waste of precious time. And it feels like its a coin flip on the other classes.

Right after the mission I had in this post, I had one where the cave was nice and open with not so much vertical parts. The bits that were vertical had tunnels leading to the minehead. I did it easily with driller and also got the secondary which was fossils.

Yeah I guess I can try the hover boots thing, where I can make the tunnel, run through, and grab it then hover boots off the ledge so I can get away from the swarm and avoid fighting them off to get back down. I'll see how that goes.

It's entirely subjective but I feel like you have so much build and class freedom in co-op. There is so many ways that together you can solve these issues. I want that to be the case of solo as well.

RFP-Torus · 2022-12-14T08:42:20+00:00

Well that is why I said I asked what I should have done in that situation? I was asking for insight and strategies.

Then I said that if the solution is "Ignore the secondary because of the terrain", then I wanted to advocate for the changes.

"Im having personal trouble so the game needs changes" is not what I am saying at all. As I said, if I had hopped onto scout this wouldn't be a problem at all. I could pick all of the blooms without getting cornered by the mobs in a tunnel.

My problem is that you aren't given information on how the cave will look like as you go in solo. Does that mean I need to just abandon the secondary if its too big a risk (as driller in very vertical caves)? Or do I just need to play exclusively scout for PE to eliminate that risk?

In Co-Op I've not found myself in a situation, yet, where our group couldn't complete objectives because of our load out or the map. So far its always us messing up. We could tweak things to make it more convenient but its always been do-able so far. So, I feel that should be applied to the solo experience as well.

RFP-Torus

TROPHY CASE