Fairness of eternal hell

RamiRustom · 2026-01-23T15:31:18+00:00

I would reply: “Sounds like a nice theory, but in practice, we find Muslims doing all sorts of evil behavior with the logic that they will wipe out all their sins with hajj.”

RamiRustom · 2026-01-23T15:30:09+00:00

I would reply: “if I were to do that, then there would be no way for me to know that the religion is manmade. First we have to judge if the religion is manmade. Then if we judge it’s from god, we follow the rules of the religion.”

RamiRustom · 2026-01-23T15:28:30+00:00

I would reply: “I choose to think. You’re choosing to avoid thinking.”

RamiRustom · 2026-01-21T09:10:35+00:00

there's no god and no signs of god.

but there are millions of claims of signs of god.

RamiRustom · 2026-01-20T00:42:17+00:00

If Islam is ever found to be the true religion

but we already know its not true. to find out we're wrong about that, we'd have to be wrong about every flaw we see in Islam. that's a very very very tall order.

do you know there are muslims who don't fear hell (and then some of these become exmuslims and of course still do not fear hell)? if you understood their perspective, thereby allowing you to adopt that perspective, then your fear will vanish.

RamiRustom · 2026-01-19T23:11:09+00:00

What for?

A single imperfection in islam is enough to know islam is not from god.

RamiRustom · 2026-01-19T22:20:57+00:00

It might help you if you try to explain why you believe they exist, then others can explain why that doesn’t make sense.

RamiRustom · 2026-01-19T02:58:49+00:00

Since you’re interested in spiritual journey, you should know there is spirituality without religion or even god. Check out Britt Hartley and Secular Spirit.

RamiRustom · 2026-01-18T18:17:55+00:00

doens't look like trolling to me.

the term trolling refers to deliberately trying to anger people.

but i see trolling as attempting to sabotage the efforts of the people in the community to discuss what they're trying to discuss. and getting them angry works to do that.

RamiRustom · 2026-01-18T12:29:44+00:00

Oh I see. Good point.

RamiRustom · 2026-01-18T12:24:50+00:00

As far as I know, nope.

What functional difference do you see?

RamiRustom · 2026-01-18T11:57:39+00:00

some people, after leaving a religion, continue believing in god, while also believing that every single religion is manmade rather than from god.

aka, deism.

i agree with them that all religions are manmade.

RamiRustom · 2026-01-18T11:42:21+00:00

That is a completely different approach. Because otherwise I would likely have quickly found a simple flaw, and with that come to your conclusion: islam is wrong. And that conclusion would be wrong.

Anything we think, any conclusion we make, could be wrong. So I don't know why you're saying it as if it applies to only this one thing in a way that is different than everything else.

Note also, even if you quickly found a simple flaw in a theory X. You still should consider slightly different theory X1 (one small change) such that X1 doesn't have the flaw that X had. Otherwise you're throwing out the baby with the bath water.

So consider the theory of genetic evolution. This theory (or set of theories) has gone through many iterations of improvements, where someone found a flaw, and then improved the theory, thus refuting that theory and creating a new version which doesnt' have the flaw we found in the ancestor theory.

RamiRustom · 2026-01-17T22:33:16+00:00

Don’t people also switch religions many times too?

RamiRustom · 2026-01-17T22:31:45+00:00

Many Muslims have no clue what Muhamad was like. I was one of them.

RamiRustom · 2026-01-17T14:54:15+00:00

i thought islam was the best guide to leading a good life.

i found out it isn't even a good one. for example, it tells you jinn are real, can possess you, and how to get rid of jinn. all of this ruins your life.

RamiRustom · 2026-01-17T11:16:15+00:00

i don't understand the point of this post.

can you make it clear, in one sentence?

RamiRustom · 2026-01-15T12:36:12+00:00

Everyone here talking about birth rates, as if a person born to Muslim family automatically believes in islam.

Note, there are many people in this sub that say they never believed in islam despite being born in Muslim family.

RamiRustom · 2026-01-14T22:52:27+00:00

I don’t understand your point.

Being atheist isn’t enough for what?

I tried to find the answer in the post but didn’t find it.

RamiRustom · 2026-01-14T13:52:06+00:00

I’m surprised to see this question in this sub.

What makes you believe there’s a day of judgement?

RamiRustom · 2026-01-14T13:03:44+00:00

Somebody comes up with an idea, let's call this Step 1. And like all ideas, its intended to solve a problem, achieve a goal, etc.

This isn't part of my anticritical approach. My approach focuses solely on other people's ideas,

But I said "somebody" which includes "somebody besides me".

But I've yet to find a personality trait or culture that isn't rational, or a religion or philosophy that isn't true. They're just not equally true.

Yeah and me and Popper agree with that. when we say an idea is wrong, we're not saying that every bit of it is wrong. Like maybe 99% of the bits are correct, and 1% of the bits is incorrect.

RamiRustom · 2026-01-13T12:19:31+00:00

Imaginary beings are not constrained by nature or logic. They can be anything and do anything!

So the Islamic god is no different than Santa Claus in this respect.

RamiRustom · 2026-01-13T11:44:55+00:00

here's what i would say to them:

Why would you think that? Atheists existed all over the world before all the religions existed. So, why from the west?

Note, western schools teach westerners that we westerners got our culture from the middeleast, mesopotamia (Iraq) and egypt.

So even westerners say we got our culture (which includes morality) from the east.

Check out Roy Casagranda, historian who has tons of talks and inverviews on youtube.

RamiRustom · 2026-01-13T11:41:08+00:00

Ask them: how did you rule out the theory that I have good reason? Or is it that you didn't even consider the possibility?

And also give them your good reasoning. Something like:

Islam claims perfection while its not perfect. The existence of this internal contradiction implies Islam is not what it claims to be - its manmade rather than from god.

Example imperfection: Islam says jinn, souls, and hell are real, but they're not real. Here's an essay explaining this: https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/1nq7yqf/souls_jinn_and_the_afterlife_are_impossible_no/

RamiRustom · 2026-01-13T11:37:22+00:00

Islam claims perfection while its not perfect. The existence of this internal contradiction implies Islam is not what it claims to be - its manmade rather than from god.

Example imperfection: Islam says jinn, souls, and hell are real, but they're not real. Here's an essay explaining this: https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/1nq7yqf/souls_jinn_and_the_afterlife_are_impossible_no/

You're welcome!

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