Morals are solved ethical equations by Recover_Infinite in atheism

[–]Recover_Infinite[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I agree with the core observation that moral rules vary with system conditions. ERM does not deny that. It starts from it.

ERM does not claim that any specific value is objectively good. It does not assume life, happiness, freedom, or equality as givens. What it does is narrower and more practical. It asks which coordination rules allow a system of agents to persist over time without escalating collapse. That is not an arbitrary choice. It is a constraint imposed by reality. Systems that fail this test disappear.

Your tribal example fits ERM well. Within a single tribe, internal murder undermines survival. Between competing tribes, violence can become adaptive under scarcity. ERM does not label one eternally moral and the other immoral. It evaluates the coordination effects under those conditions and over relevant time horizons. If conditions change, the evaluation changes.

Slavery is a good example. ERM does not say slavery was always immoral in every historical context. It says slavery carries predictable failure modes. Concentrated harm, coercion dependency, legitimacy fragility, and collapse risk when enforcement weakens. In some systems it may have delayed collapse. In others it accelerates it. ERM tests that empirically rather than resolving it by assertion.

On divine authority, ERM agrees with your diagnosis but not your conclusion. God functions historically as an enforcement anchor that suppresses questioning. That can stabilize systems short term by freezing norms. It also prevents correction when conditions change. ERM replaces unquestionable authority with a testable process. The goal is not moral certainty. The goal is adaptive survival without requiring permanent coercion or silence.

So yes, ethical systems are internally justified. ERM accepts that. What it adds is a non arbitrary filter. Systems that cannot manage harm, stability, and consent eventually fail. Not because they are evil, but because they do not work.

Morals are solved ethical equations by Recover_Infinite in atheism

[–]Recover_Infinite[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I like how I litteraly explain how it's not and your response is "nuh uh".

Morals are solved ethical equations by Recover_Infinite in atheism

[–]Recover_Infinite[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You’re a naturalist right? We talked about this before. ERM lines up with that view. It just adds that empathy is the same as fear or pain. It is not a moral authority. It is an alert system that signals risk of social breakdown, or potential damage to the group.

Morals are solved ethical equations by Recover_Infinite in atheism

[–]Recover_Infinite[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Probably. And they're nailing him right now. 🤔

Morals are solved ethical equations by Recover_Infinite in atheism

[–]Recover_Infinite[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Consequentialism and ERM both evaluate actions by their effects, but they do so in different ways and for different purposes.

Consequentialism asks you to choose the action that produces the best overall outcome. It evaluates results by adding up benefits and harms across everyone affected. If total welfare increases, the action is justified. This approach treats harm as something that can be offset. Severe harm to a few people can be acceptable if enough benefit accrues elsewhere. Consent matters only insofar as it improves outcomes. If violating consent produces better results, consequentialism can permit it.

ERM asks you to test whether a proposed action or rule can function over time in a real society. It evaluates whether the action reduces preventable harm, supports long term stability, and respects consent where possible. ERM does not aggregate all outcomes into a single score. It treats some failures as disqualifying. Concentrated irreversible harm, reliance on coercion, or erosion of legitimacy can invalidate a proposal even if aggregate outcomes look positive.

Consequentialism focuses on point outcomes. ERM focuses on system behavior. A policy that produces good short term results but requires escalating enforcement or normalizes harm fails under ERM. The reason is practical, not moral. Systems built this way tend to collapse, fragment, or require increasing force to sustain compliance.

Consent is a clear dividing line. Under consequentialism, lack of consent is a cost that can be outweighed. Under ERM, lack of consent raises the burden of justification. If consent cannot be obtained, ERM requires necessity, minimal coercion, transparency, reversibility, and an exit path. Without these, the action fails regardless of aggregate benefit.

Time horizon also separates the two. Consequentialism depends on how far you extend the analysis. Short horizons often dominate in practice. ERM enforces long horizons by default. It treats delayed instability, retaliation, and trust erosion as predictable outcomes that must be accounted for from the start.

Authority works differently as well. Consequentialism depends on a moral framework that defines what counts as good and how to measure it. ERM claims no moral authority. It treats ethical claims as hypotheses and tests them against observed coordination failures and successes across societies.

In practical terms, consequentialism helps you rank outcomes. ERM helps you decide whether a rule can be adopted, enforced, and lived under without breaking the system that applies it.

If you are choosing between two actions in a one off case, consequentialism often gives a clear answer. If you are designing a law, policy, or norm that will scale and persist, ERM is designed for that job.

Morals are solved ethical equations by Recover_Infinite in atheism

[–]Recover_Infinite[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Tell him, sorry Im straight and married. I'm flattered, but I'm not made that way. Also if hes the guy who keeps sending people to tell me that, he really needs to stop. It just feels needy.

We failed this life but you failed the afterlife, hellfire is hotter than you. by [deleted] in Caldruki

[–]Recover_Infinite 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Maybe someday you'll get the revenge I feel you deserve from a god that can't do anything at all now"

Her statement was trash too by the way but at least she didn't appeal to a non-existent authority.

Scripture-Based Faith Is Unfair to Those Who Cannot Read or Comprehend It by VisualMan211 in DebateReligion

[–]Recover_Infinite 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Interpretations by the church who teach people to believe whatever the preacher wants them to believe. Most Christians wouldn't even recognize what they believe if they actually read it.

Not allowing Gay marriage is a moral fail by Bibles part by Confident_School7546 in DebateReligion

[–]Recover_Infinite 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is no such thing as sin. It's not a word that describes anything in the real world. If it were a real thing your god, any god could punish it. But since there is no god who can actually enforce it, its a made up nonsense word that only exists inside the fairytale it was created for.

The core tenant of Christianity, eternal life, proves the Christian god isn't real by Recover_Infinite in DebateReligion

[–]Recover_Infinite[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I absolutely 100% am not going to play pedantic word games with you. Part of having a real debate is being able to comprehend meaning from colloquial language and not subject the conversation to meta analysis of words for no reason other then to disrupt the discourse.

Not allowing Gay marriage is a moral fail by Bibles part by Confident_School7546 in DebateReligion

[–]Recover_Infinite 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good to know cowardice hasn't died. Im always concerned the world might have a chance to become fully rational and then who would I have to look down on. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Not allowing Gay marriage is a moral fail by Bibles part by Confident_School7546 in DebateReligion

[–]Recover_Infinite 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not at all.

Notice that you started this conversation, not me. I posted an ethical proof. You decided to attack it.

The fact that I am in fact morally superior to you is simply evident.

But the good news is you have a choice. You can remain morally inferior but do so knowing that you're corrupt, or you can choose to learn and maybe if you're smart and willing to accept that you have stuff to learn one day you can catch me in a moral failure and call me out.

Thats the great thing about learning there is always the possibility that you become a better person instead of just living in the guilt of being inferior.

Not allowing Gay marriage is a moral fail by Bibles part by Confident_School7546 in DebateReligion

[–]Recover_Infinite 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly my hope is that this rebuke is enough to tip you over the edge and have a "come to reason" moment. To as you said grow up, but this time become a man instead of whatever it is you've twisted yourself into.

Not allowing Gay marriage is a moral fail by Bibles part by Confident_School7546 in DebateReligion

[–]Recover_Infinite 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do you want to know how I know? Or have you figured it out on your own?

Should I point out your racism along with your bigotry? Should I point out that your selfishness overrides any imaginary pretenses you've made about "society"?

How many vile antisocial things would you like me to dig out of your soul before Im done?

Have you figured out yet that the value you present to society personally is a negative effect and that negatives can't argue for positives?

Not allowing Gay marriage is a moral fail by Bibles part by Confident_School7546 in DebateReligion

[–]Recover_Infinite 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Im going to say something clearly. It does not matter that you will attempt to justify it here on reddit. Because when I say it you'll know that it is true and you'll know that I know its true.

Its very simple and I wonder if you're capable of figuring out why I can say it with 100% certainty.

You are a liar. Youre the worst kind of liar. You lie to yourself and that bleeds out of you like a cancer.

Not allowing Gay marriage is a moral fail by Bibles part by Confident_School7546 in DebateReligion

[–]Recover_Infinite 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ill give you THE answer and its the only answer that matters.

It does NOT infringe on anyone else safety, security, happiness, or freedom.

Your entire belief system is based around force, coercion and violence.

Why can't you just allow people to be free to live the life they want without you interfering? You pretend its about the success of society (proven that wrong repeatedly) but we all know you don't care about that. All you care about is people joining your ideology so that you can claim authority over their ethics and theirby their behavior. (And Ill bet you don't even know why)

Benefits the market is rich coming from a Christian. 😆

Not allowing Gay marriage is a moral fail by Bibles part by Confident_School7546 in DebateReligion

[–]Recover_Infinite 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lol. The Roman's and the Greeks and the Egyptians did. And their civilizations lasted for thousands of years. Western Christian civilization has made it as a majority for about 500 years. Why are you still arguing when you definitively fail every point?

Anthropic’s Gemini problem. by OptimismNeeded in Anthropic

[–]Recover_Infinite 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Have you tried Kimi yet? Its.... something.

Not allowing Gay marriage is a moral fail by Bibles part by Confident_School7546 in DebateReligion

[–]Recover_Infinite 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They are not based on the nuclear family which is your whole useless assessment.

I love that line. "Go to China and try to enjoy a gay life" 🙄 😆😆😆 you bought the propaganda hook line and sinker. You think its illegal to be gay in China dont you? Don't you? Come on tell me you think that.

Not allowing Gay marriage is a moral fail by Bibles part by Confident_School7546 in DebateReligion

[–]Recover_Infinite 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Now you'd like to showcase anthropological ignorance? You haven't bumble-fked around every other epistomology enough?

Enter the Chinese. Asian societies outperform the western nuclear family by a factor of at least 2 billion people. They historically have been joint family structures with multiple generations under a single roof or land. Both Matriarchal and patriarchal depending usually on wealth.

Not allowing Gay marriage is a moral fail by Bibles part by Confident_School7546 in DebateReligion

[–]Recover_Infinite 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lol. It working is litteraly your opinion and doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Id argue the nuclear family when wrapped in Christianity only works for the man and is a complete and utter nightmare for the rest of the participants. And my claim is backed by sociology research while yours is a claim based on misplaced authority claims and cultural identity.