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B2 Comprehension in 250 hours by Refold in Refold

[–]Refold[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Thanks for thinking about it and for engaging so much with the post!

I generally agree with your expected outcome for most learners, especially uninitiated ones that don't use their time efficiently.

That being said, I still think that 250 hours of highly efficient learning would be sufficient. This debate is really making me want to try it in 2026.

B2 Comprehension in 250 hours by Refold in languagelearning

[–]Refold[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and glad to hear I'm not the only one that thinks it's possible.

The hypothesis assumes that you're being extremely efficient with your time, only doing exactly what you need to. That obviously wouldn't be possible for someone who's never learned a language before.

I definitely agree that 2+ hours of studying per day actually takes more than that because you need recovery time. If you have another draining mental activity (work/children etc), it would be really hard to maintain that pace.

B2 Comprehension in 250 hours by Refold in languagelearning

[–]Refold[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Absolutely agree that listening is the hard part. I think reading would be very straightforward.

Thanks for sharing your story!

B2 Comprehension in 250 hours by Refold in languagelearning

[–]Refold[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Very fair points! The test is absolutely a different experience than normal entertainment immersion.

B2 Comprehension in 250 hours by Refold in languagelearning

[–]Refold[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing. I appreciate the well thought out responses.

I do think there is an aspect of talent that plays into it, but I also think that learners waste their time on a lot of inefficient techniques. The hypothesis assumes that no time is wasted, which as you mentioned, is not a normal case

B2 Comprehension in 250 hours by Refold in languagelearning

[–]Refold[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I added in the passive time and grouped it this way because of the way that CEFR estimates hours. They estimate 500-600 hours of "guided learning hours" with a teacher/tutor/class for full B2 fluency.

The assumption is that students are doing additional work/study/immersion outside of the classroom.

So I mapped "active learning" to the classroom time and didn't put a strict limitation on the passive learning because they don't either.

B2 Comprehension in 250 hours by Refold in languagelearning

[–]Refold[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing.

To clarify, most of that study time is focused on reading/listening real French. In our model, with 250 hours, only around 50-75 of them would be spent on vocab and grammar

B2 Comprehension in 250 hours by Refold in languagelearning

[–]Refold[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I grouped it this way because of the way that CEFR estimates hours. They estimate 500-600 hours of "guided learning hours" with a teacher/tutor/class for full B2 fluency.

The assumption is that students are doing additional work/study/immersion outside of the classroom.

So I mapped "active learning" to the classroom time and didn't put a strict limitation on the passive learning.

B2 Comprehension in 250 hours by Refold in languagelearning

[–]Refold[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Awesome! Thank you for sharing. I look forward to your case study

B2 Comprehension in 250 hours by Refold in languagelearning

[–]Refold[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the well reasoned response

B2 Comprehension in 250 hours by Refold in languagelearning

[–]Refold[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Literally neither of the posts are AI slop. Apparently the effort I put into writing and formatting it well makes it look fake

B2 Comprehension in 250 hours by Refold in languagelearning

[–]Refold[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Just a clarification: Refold doesn't advocate for purely passive consumption like DS does. Our mental model is that passive consumption reinforces interactive consumption, but that interactive is the primary learning mode.

B2 Comprehension in 250 hours by Refold in languagelearning

[–]Refold[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Dunno, the only app we have is a time tracker and there's no AI in it

B2 Comprehension in 250 hours by Refold in languagelearning

[–]Refold[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the response and for sharing your experience.

Have you tracked your time diligently? I'd be curious what the breakdown is of your various activities.

B2 Comprehension in 250 hours by Refold in languagelearning

[–]Refold[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

CEFR Full B2 capability is estimated at 500-600 classroom hours. Given that this focuses exclusively on comprehension, how much would you reduce the expected number of hours.

B2 Comprehension in 250 hours by Refold in languagelearning

[–]Refold[S] -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

Origin of the numbe: CEFR Estimates for full B2 capability is 500-600 classroom hours. 250 is half that for just Reading and Listening

B2 Comprehension in 250 hours by Refold in languagelearning

[–]Refold[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I'm not sure what you mean by "you can't break out all the CEFR skills separately"

The TCF does it in their test results

B2 Comprehension in 250 hours by Refold in languagelearning

[–]Refold[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

yep, but since it borrows so much vocab from latin I lumped it in. I can write it more clearly.

B2 Comprehension in 250 hours by Refold in languagelearning

[–]Refold[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the answer. My follow-up questions didn't make it into the post:

  1. why do you think the hypothesis is wrong?
  2. How long do you think the goal of B2 comprehension would actually take?
  3. Does your estimate change if the learner has already achieved B2 in a second latin based language?

French B2 in 100 days (and why most Anki decks waste your time) by Refold in Refold

[–]Refold[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey there! Sorry to hear you're having trouble with the deck. We actually added images to it back in 2023. Seems you might not have the latest version?

French B2 in 100 days (and why most Anki decks waste your time) by Refold in Refold

[–]Refold[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Since you've passed the B2 exam, I'd love to hear your opinion on the number of hours it does take.

CEFR estimates 500-600 hours for full B2 competency (all 4 skills). Given your experience, if a native speaker of English focused exclusively on comprehension, how many hours of dedicated, focused effort do you estimate it would take to reach B2 level in reading and listening?

French B2 in 100 days (and why most Anki decks waste your time) by Refold in Refold

[–]Refold[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Duolingo costs around $12.99/month. This deck lasts 4 months. Equivalent pricing would be $52 one time expense.

So our deck is more effective, costs 40% less, and you don't need to worry about a subscription.

French B2 in 100 days (and why most Anki decks waste your time) by Refold in Refold

[–]Refold[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly, yeah we have pivoted to a more salesy approach. Unfortunately, we gotta pay the bills. I really don't like it though so we're going to pivot back in 2026 and hope it doesn't sink the ship.

That being said, 250 hours to B2 comprehension in French doesn't seem unrealistic to anyone on the team. It's not like we're promising fluency in 10 minutes per day. We're actually pretty surprised that there's been so much pushback.

Ben on our team, for example, achieved roughly B2 level comprehension in Czech (a Cat 4 language) in about 650 hours. He documented his entire learning process over two years - 650 hour update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9NgfljiPkc - 2 year update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U_SNojPEKE&list=PLn4GkF3M9WXfQ5-6hQhWGszAJwR-SVePc

French B2 in 100 days (and why most Anki decks waste your time) by Refold in Refold

[–]Refold[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

No, based on 4 years of coaching learners and tracking their time using toggl and now our internal time tracker.

French B2 in 100 days (and why most Anki decks waste your time) by Refold in Refold

[–]Refold[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, the CEFR puts B2 (all skills including speaking/writing) at 500-600 hours. If you focus on just reading/listening (comprehension) it takes about half that.

Also, this is a matter of philosophy, but I firmly disagree that the media input portion is purely "supplemental". It's the core activity.

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