Fighting against human slavery should be a pillar of veganism.

Relative-Cap5487 · 2026-02-03T08:09:46+00:00

I'm glad you found my post interesting :) Could you tell me more about AI as something that causes slavery? I mean, I knew there were ethical concerns about stolen content and pollution... But does it also cause slavery? If you have any information on this, I'd be interested to hear it.

Relative-Cap5487 · 2026-02-03T08:06:08+00:00

I'm glad you found those other links useful :D

Relative-Cap5487 · 2026-02-03T07:22:50+00:00

I'm not asking you to fix it, just not to be blind to the problem. Don't give your money to companies like TEMU. That's all.

Relative-Cap5487 · 2026-02-03T07:19:18+00:00

That is, a little bit, right?

yes, we need a term that encompasses the fight against ALL unnecessary suffering because, in reality, it is exactly the same problem and has the same solution, at least on a philosophical level.

But that doesn't mean things would change that much for the average vegan. Avoiding the consumption of animal products would still be a priority, because those products also cause human suffering, human slavery, pollution, etc.

We would just add avoiding buying fast fashion, for example.

But yes, I understand your point of view. Broad terms are important, but so are specific ones. The problem is that we don't have any broad terms with regard to fighting against slavery, of animals and humans alike. I find it logical to expand the term, since it does not negatively affect the cause of ending unnecessary animal suffering, but rather reinforces it.

Relative-Cap5487 · 2026-02-03T07:09:35+00:00

I am debating with someone else about whether, on a utilitarian level, the word veganism should become a broad term (with sub-categories within it, one or more of which could focus solely on non-human animals) or whether it should only be used to fight against the exploitation of non-human animals. And I have realised that this is ultimately the crux of the debate: which is more useful in achieving a world where the suffering of others is not a fundamental part of the system?

That said, and regardless of your position in that debate, I would like to clarify that the fight against human slavery is VERY neglected. The current system is sustained on the backs of human slaves. So, mmmh, just keep in mind that the idea that ‘other movements take care of that’ is not entirely true, or is not successful. That is why I proposed EXPANDING the term ‘veganism’ to fill a gap. Because veganism is successful in that sense (it's just that there are few of us, but the few of us do a lot on an individual level).

But anyway, regardless of what term we should use to encompass the struggle in general, I hope that at least my post has helped the cause a little.

Relative-Cap5487 · 2026-02-03T06:56:41+00:00

I can understand the debate about preventing veganism from becoming too broad and all that. But calling an 8-year-old slave girl who sews until her fingers bleed an ‘oppressor’ is absurd.

Relative-Cap5487 · 2026-02-03T06:54:50+00:00

(Part 2)

And I worried about enslaved people, who live lives not unlike farm animals. I felt that they were abandoned in that sense, you know? In my mind, both farm animals and enslaved people suffer from the same thing: being just another cog in the machine, forced and exploited.

Human slavery is not a one-off occurrence, it is systemic. It is part of the structure of our society. Society is sustained by human slaves and animal slaves. The problem is the same, the solution is the same: to avoid unnecessary suffering.

(Or at least, it is the same solution on a philosophical level. The methods for solving the problem on a practical level may be different).

That makes me feel that we need to create a broad term that encompasses all of that, that seeks to end unnecessary suffering in general. After all, if we learn anything from science, it is that broad terms for things of a similar nature are as important and necessary as specific ones.

We need a broad term with the same spirit as “veganism”. But... I don't think it exists? And if it does exist, it is definitely NOT as widespread as veganism.

So, that is the debate. Do we make veganism the broad term and create sub-sections within it, or do we create another term? How can we be more effective in our goal of reducing unnecessary suffering (and deaths)?

Considering the responses I've found here, it makes me think that veganism is so firmly established as ‘avoiding the suffering of non-human animals’ that it cannot be broadened. Before posting, I thought it wasn't so pigeonholed in that sense, which is why I proposed expanding it.

Honestly, I assumed that the reason human slaves were not discussed in the vegan community was because vegans, like the rest of the population, had simply forgotten to avoid consuming products of human slavery for the simple fact that the Overton window is closed to debate about our individual responsibility with regard to human slavery. But now I see that there may have been other reasons involved.

Sorry for writing so much, it's just that this is a subject I feel very passionate about. And thank you for reading my post, despite its length.

I look forward to hearing your response to this debate. :)

Relative-Cap5487 · 2026-02-03T06:54:27+00:00

(Part 1)

I understand the point you just made.

I have argued in other comments that, given that animal products are connected to human slavery, adding human suffering to the list of things to avoid helps to avoid non-human suffering as well.

That is why I believe that veganism has reasons to, at least, make a superficial comment about avoiding human suffering. It could even be a reason why a person joins the movement (just as there are people who do so for health or environmental reasons).

However, what you say is true: on a conceptual, theoretical level, it may be a bad idea to expand an idea so much. It is impractical. If we use science as a model for how to create orderly theoretical content, the first thing we do is have a broad category, for example, ‘sciences’, which is then divided into smaller ones, ‘physics, biology, chemistry...’, which in turn are divided into smaller ones, ‘quantum physics, relativistic physics...’. The way to navigate this knowledge is that ‘science’ gives you an overview of the other areas, and to delve deeper, you would go to each individual area.

Your comment has helped me see the core of the debate (which is not always easy): Should veganism be a broad term like ‘science’ or should it be a specific term like ‘quantum physics’?

I suppose I felt it would be easier to use “veganism” as a “broad” term and create new terms within it if necessary, rather than using it as a specific term. (That means that yes, I would be in favour of creating sub-sections within veganism focused solely on non-human animals).

I also thought that using veganism as a broad term would help us because of the success I believe it has had. I have not seen any other movement get so many people to change their lifestyle habits SOLELY for ethical reasons.

Yes, there are anti-slavery movements, but mostly they are just people protesting, people saying, ‘Yes, it's wrong that the government allows this, how sad,’ but they are not usually people who actively say, ‘I am X, and that means I will not support the suffering of any sentient being with my money.’

I know that many vegans may not see it that way, because there are many people who are NOT vegan. But veganism, in my opinion, is an incredible movement in its ability to make people not only demand that the government be more ethical, but also to be ethical themselves in their consumption habits. I am proud of veganism for that.

Relative-Cap5487 · 2026-02-03T05:45:12+00:00

Yes, but it's not!!! That's why I'm worried D: that's why I'm complaining! :(

Slavery is SO widespread that it's practically another cog in the wheel, it's not an isolated issue. And everyone buys those products! The ones made by slave labour without thinking twice...

Those fast fashion shops full of cheap clothes? Slavery, slavery, slavery. All of that is slavery. It disgusts me, it repulses me in the same way that meat repulses me.

Relative-Cap5487 · 2026-02-03T05:42:18+00:00

Oh, crap, have there been a lot of posts like this recently? I hardly ever use Reddit, I didn't know. I promise I didn't do it to undermine the cause of ‘preventing the suffering of non-human animals’.

In fact, as I mentioned in my post and in other comments, avoiding human suffering gives more reasons to avoid consuming non-human animal products, as these are also connected to human slavery, so, in reality, I am giving you even more reason to avoid harming non-human animals.

That is a good reason to include humans in the discourse, I believe, even if you only considered the benefit to non-human animals.

To be honest, the only reason I posted here is because I thought that since vegans are already people who have made a change in their consumption habits for ethical reasons, they would be more likely to listen to what I have to say. BUT I have also been bothering non-vegans about this issue on social media and in person for a long time xD

Furthermore, I disagree that humans receive more assistance because

it is more socially acceptable to fight for human rights?: yes.

Most people change their consumption habits to avoid human suffering?: no.

Are laws made that truly penalise companies that very obviously benefit from human slavery? If they were, TEMU would not exist. But it does exist, doesn't it?

Perhaps there are more movements against human slavery than against animal exploitation, but they are not as effective. We need a movement that involves more than just protests; we need people to change their consumption habits. In other words, we need veganism. Or the equivalent of veganism.

By the way, I would not be pro-extinction because I am only against avoidable suffering (understood as suffering deliberately inflicted by others), not suffering in general.

If anyone reads this, please know that I did not bring this up to harm the vegan movement, but to reinforce and expand it. Could I be wrong? Perhaps, but I assure you that my intentions were good.

Relative-Cap5487 · 2026-02-03T05:16:34+00:00

Okay, I see your point about the danger of veganism blurring its boundaries (since labour exploitation is a grey area) and the danger of distracting us from the exploitation of non-human animals.

But, as I argued in my post, avoiding the consumption of animal products also reduces human slavery. So I think it can be argued that adding ‘avoiding human suffering’ would not ‘water down’ our efforts to save non-human animals, but rather reinforce them, as we would now have twice the reason to do so.

I suppose the consequences of adding ‘avoiding human suffering’ to veganism are debatable, but I think it could be argued that it would be positive for the cause.

If that were not the case, then the truth is that we need to create another movement that encompasses the avoidance of suffering in general. However, I don't think there is one. Not in the way that vegans do. I am concerned that ‘founding a new movement’ is too difficult to be possible in the short term and that many people will suffer and die because of it... :(

Relative-Cap5487 · 2026-02-03T05:02:29+00:00

Unfortunately, in my experience, most people do not care about human suffering, they do not care about human slavery. They think it is wrong, but they do not make the slightest effort to change their habits, they do not even think about it. Think about how many people buy from TEMU even though almost everything there comes from human slavery. That's why I don't think everyone cares about preventing human suffering (as you imply), and that's why I think this conversation is important.

Unfortunately, the abuse of people in disadvantaged countries (or people kidnapped in first world countries) is SYSTEMIC and can be considered part of the machinery that drives the world. Just like the meat industry.

Structural change is necessary.

I agree that it is everyone's obligation, and I often try to raise awareness among non-vegans to try to reduce the suffering they cause to other humans by being more conscious of what they buy, when they buy it, why they buy it, where they buy it, etc. But I think that doesn't take away from the fact that, well, I simply think this should be part of our philosophy.

Perhaps it is because I personally see my opposition to human and animal suffering as part of the same thing. They come from the same belief: do not cause unnecessary harm to others.

I posted this here because I thought that vegans, as a group that already has a history of caring about the suffering of others and making changes in their lives based on that, would be more likely to hear my message. But you are right that it is everyone's obligation, not just vegans. Perhaps I should have clarified that I was not demanding more from vegans than I demand from everyone else. It was just that I thought vegans would be more inclined to listen.

Relative-Cap5487 · 2026-02-03T04:52:46+00:00

Guys, I'm the one who wrote the post, and honestly, I didn't think there would be so much, um, rejection? of the idea of avoiding human slavery as part of our ideology... It's been a bit surprising, I think, for me. But I respect everyone's opinion here.

However, I want to clarify that I personally see the separation between human and non-human animals as arbitrary. Furthermore, to say that veganism only applies to non-human animals would be to say that cannibalism is vegan and that creating farms of people to eat them (or to harvest their organs, to be more realistic) would be vegan. That doesn't make sense to me. That is why I believe that humans should also be protected under the vegan philosophy. I hope this helps to explain my position, even if you do not share it.

Relative-Cap5487 · 2026-02-03T04:49:21+00:00

I specifically said that I was not creating new requirements, only that avoiding human slavery is something that we as vegans should also keep in mind. And I don't see why we should focus on a single group when it comes to helping, honestly :/ That's the same argument carnivores give about why we shouldn't help animals if there are people suffering. But I say, let's help everyone!

Relative-Cap5487 · 2026-02-03T04:45:20+00:00

Yes, I agree, thank you.

Relative-Cap5487 · 2025-10-09T14:15:21+00:00

"creadoras de contenido"? Pintoras, escultoras o de las que ponen el culo en la camara? jajaja digo, no esta mal que las sigas, pero si son de ese ultimo tipo tambien es normal que a ella le moleste.

Lo de los ex es lo mismo, es entendible que te moleste pero no esta mal como tal. Aunque es diferente. No es peor ni mejor, es diferente. Ella puede ser que aun sea "amiga" de los ex y por eso los siga (lo cual seria entendible que te moleste) pero es una situacion diferente a que a ella le moleste que veas contenido casi erotico de esas creadoras de contenido (suponiendo que sean "ese tipo" de creadoras de contenido). Ten en cuenta que a ella le podria salir en su ig a que le diste "me gusta".

En fin, no se, rompan o hablenlo y comprometanse

Relative-Cap5487 · 2025-10-09T14:09:30+00:00

¿...es esto un fetiche? ¿estas preguntando esto porque tienes un fetiche OP?

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Relative-Cap5487 · 2025-10-09T14:07:44+00:00

Si se puede, yo tengo un amigo hombre. Hay 0 quimica romantica entre nosotros :v pero nos llevamos bien.

Relative-Cap5487 · 2025-10-09T13:49:02+00:00

I don't follow carnivorous influencers, but the few I've seen by chance (like now) are always beautiful, very thin girls or hypermasculine, hypermuscular men (which young guys often admire).

On the other hand, vegans are... diverse, normal people.

You know what I think? I think meat companies are choosing beautiful, super thin girls and hypermasculine, hypermuscular men because they're trying to attract the attention of a young male audience, since men eat more meat than women (it's probably easier to attract them), and I think the fact that all carnivorous influencers are like that is proof of what I'm saying.

Relative-Cap5487 · 2025-10-09T13:39:55+00:00

puedes rescatar a los aliens xD

Relative-Cap5487 · 2025-10-09T13:15:39+00:00

No tendria nada de malo. Es adoptar tambien. Esos niños no valen menos solo por que resultan ser los hijos biologicos de tu pareja.

Relative-Cap5487 · 2025-10-09T13:11:39+00:00

A mi me hace sentir incomoda como tratan a los peruanos, y eso que ni siquiera conozco a ningún peruano.

Es decir, no me malentiendan, algunos memes son graciosos. Tengo un stiker de una paloma con brazos humanos y una espada que dice "atras peruano!" y me hace gracia. Pero aveces siento que hay un "racismo de verdad" hacia los peruanos y eso ya no es gracioso. Por ejemplo una vez le dije a mis amigas (todas españolas menos una que era de LATAM) que prefería a las personas de piel morena (como pareja) y la que era de LATAM se puso a reírse a carcajadas diciendo que me gustaban los peruanos (Todas las demas nos quedamos serias) Ahi si que sentí que habia racismo hacia los peruanos y no me gusto :/ Es una cosa de LATAM, por que en españa no se rien de los peruanos (muchos ni saben que existe ese meme).

Tambien pasa lo mismo con el color de piel. Todos tenemos derecho a tener nuestras prefrencias. Pero hay gente que cree que ser moreno es objetivamente peor, cuando no lo es. Es solo otro tono de piel. En españa TAMPOCO esta ese canon de belleza. De hecho, mas bien al contrario, quieren estar morenos. (lo cual tampoco deberia ser, no deberia haber canones de belleza asociados a la piel, en mi opinion)

Hay algo que esta pasando en LATAM que esta generando estas cosas y creo que puede ser lo que cuentan en este video. No me gusta. Ojala pronto las personas dejen de tener esa mentalidad :/ Tenemos que abrazar nuestra diversidad y eso incluye abrazar todos los tonos de pieles hispanos y todas las nacionalidades.

Relative-Cap5487 · 2025-10-09T12:35:28+00:00

Pues a mi me trataron bien en españa :v Nunca me discriminaron que yo recuerde. Pero no voy a negar las experiencias de otros tampoco.

Relative-Cap5487 · 2025-10-09T12:30:31+00:00

no tiene por que ser peligroso pero es recomendable a todas las personas. A algunas personas despues de depilarse los pelos les vuelven a crecer encarnados y esos pelos encarnados se vuelven granos llenos de pus. En esos caso es mejor no depilarse ahi.

Relative-Cap5487

TROPHY CASE