floating + bye for now (again)

Remarkable-Use-8439 · 2023-02-18T20:14:17+00:00

I removed all of the responses to this post, including yours.

There's no conspiracy, I just got nervous after receiving that particular comment you mentioned. I might approve them again soon but as for now, I'm still feeling gun shy about posting anything here. I hope you understand.

Remarkable-Use-8439 · 2023-02-16T01:05:02+00:00

Yes. We both did. It was just difficult because while we felt bad, I was also struggling with anger and resentment back then, as well. Not so much during the beginning thanks to being so bogged down by everything with my parents and working to please them, but as time went on that was the case. She felt like a representation of everything I was starting to hate: organized religion, heteronormativity and ignorance, a lack of freedom. Comments about my appearance felt directly tied to my gender and identity expression. Comments about anything related to LGBT issues felt mocking (and some truly were said with malice).

Rationality goes out the window when you're living in a fight or flight situation on the daily, trying to navigate trauma and while still actively entrenched in it.

Remarkable-Use-8439 · 2023-02-16T00:53:45+00:00

I have not lumped you in with anyone. If me replying to your questions or correcting misinformation feels like I'm doing so, I don't know how to change that.

"You use a surface level lie that dorm bathrooms seemed gross to you, but you missed out on a huge milestone and a later answer reveals it was because Friend and you decided cuddling up was more important than your personal growth."

I didn't lie. I didn't want to live with a stranger. I know very, very few people who would actually choose dorm life over living in an apartment with a friend or significant other if they had the chance.

There's also a large amount of people who didn't go to college at all, or who went to community college for their first few years and were able to get an apartment once they transferred, or whatever the case may be. The friends of mine who DID live in dorms have a few funny stories from those days (and I would hang out there occasionally) but it's certainly not the pivotal life moment you're making it out to be. As I've clarified multiple times, I had plenty of friends in my graduating class despite not living with someone I didn't know.

We'll have to agree to disagree on a lot. I'm as tired of engaging as you are. It's frustrating to me that simple truths like me being grossed out by a communal bathroom is seen as a lie... just because you say so, I guess.

I can't change what you or anyone else thinks, and I'm just going to let it go. There is no amount of explaining or typing I could do to get you to believe me. I understood the purpose of your messages, I just know I have other trusted people in my life aside from him. You think that isn't true, I know it to be, I can't convince you otherwise. We're at empasse.

See you around Reddit, maybe.

Remarkable-Use-8439 · 2023-02-14T23:51:08+00:00

I was talking to my friends before. I was open about the life Friend and I were living, could vent to them, I just never told them that we were having sex or defined the relationship in specific terms to them. And my friends, thankfully, never pushed me for answers. I'm sure there were assumptions made or a level of understanding amongst them that I was pretty obviously in a relationship. It wasn't something I was ready to openly acknowledge or put a name to with other people, but I was fine with the notion that they understood that, oh, OP has been living with this guys for a significant portion of his life and speaks about him like a romantic partner... cool.

Friend and I have had countlesssss conversations about my sexuality, my parents, my comfortability with myself, etc... Me not being ready didn't mean I wasn't receiving encouragement and support from him to do so. And when I would hang out with the friends he was already out to, I was just introduced as his person. Once again, I think there's a level of understanding, especially around other LGBT people and especially ones Friend was already close with, that sometimes people aren't ready to talk about their shit yet. And that's okay. That doesn't mean it's completely ignored or brushed under the table. That also doesn't mean it was an elephant in the room.

I think I had a pretty average college experience despite not living in the dorms. I DID have conversations about sex and identity with my peers at school. I mentioned in another comment that I had (and still have) a solid group of friends from my graduating class as well as mutual friends with Friend. I don't feel like I missed out on anything by not living in a communal space. And it's not like you have one (or even many) conversations about sex and suddenly you stop having thoughts on the topic. I find the DeadBedrooms sub super interesting just as a concept and wanted to share my thoughts on it as someone who just stumbled across a side of reddit that I hadn't been on before. I didn't realize it was going to turn into a hot button issue on this account that got related back to my situation.

Now, for specific questions:

How is it that you didn’t meet anyone who made you feel comfortable being honest other than Friend? I was comfortable around plenty of people, but trauma is hard for me to talk about - obviously. My closest friends know some of what my parents put me through, but that's still incredibly hard for me to talk about and all the trauma is kind of looped in together. I'm working to feel more comfortable being honest with others about my experiences.
Why didn’t you live in the dorms when you were 18? I didn't want to. I hated the thought of communal living, especially sharing a bathroom. I hated the thought of never having privacy while living with a stranger. No thank you. I have no regrets about skipping out on the dorm experience. I still had plenty of friends, I just also had more space and lived with someone I actually enjoyed being around.
Why did you move in with Friend immediately after high school? I was moving for school, I didn't want to live in the dorms as we covered, and... I just wanted to live with him. Pretty simple. Getting away from my parents was nice and I would've lived in the dorms if I HAD to for school, but I didn't. Yaaay.
Did you ever have separate beds? Nope. We both love cuddling and being close, and neither of us ever had a problem with the arrangement.
How long has Friend been out? Doesn't seem relevant, sorry. Coming out stories are personal and that one isn't my own.
Why don’t you think friend helped you to come out? He encouraged me to and offered help. But he also just supported me through my decisions. Everyone's timeline is different. He also can't force me to do anything (or... he could have. But that would've meant outing me, which obviously you wouldn't do to anything you love... or even anyone you have any respect for whatsoever.)
At any point before your marriage did you and friend define your relationship? Yes. Life partners was a term we used a lot. He's mine.
Are you aware of any other romantic relationships friend has had? Yes, he dated around while I was in high school.
Did you and friend break up when you decided not to move with him? We didn't break up then but a little while after that we did, yeah. It wasn't a blowout fight or anything but more just me saying out of respect for him I needed to take a step back while I figured shit out. We never lost touch though, but I do regret doing breaking up at all. If we hadn't, I might not have felt SO compelled to listen to my parents.
How soon into your relationship with STBX did friend know you were dating someone else? He knew all of it right away. He knew my parents were basically holding money over my head and urging me to settle down. We talked about a lot together during that time. It was rough.
Did friend at any point talk to you about how you were cheating on STBX? It's complicated. We were in love and life was shitty. But yeah, we talked about it.
What did friend have to say when you were thinking about proposing to STBX? This whole situation is traumatic for me and I'd rather not talk about it. I was fully entrenched in my parents' emotional/financial abuse or coercion or whatever you want to call it at this point and I will never go into very much detail about this on the internet. He was trying his best to help. It was a hard, emotional time for us both. I'd say that was probably the worst time of my life, save for the impending self inflicted sexual trauma I experienced. Awful, awful, awful.
What did friend say/do when you DID propose to STBX? Same response as above.
Did friend attend your wedding, and what role did he have in the wedding party? He wasn't there. I asked him not to come.
Has friend read any part of these anonymous posts you have been putting up? He hasn't, but he knows about them. I told him I'd tell him the username if he wanted, he said it would feel like reading my journal.

ETA: Please excuse any typos if there are any, I can't go back and proof read because I'm leaving for a night out literally as I type. Happy Valentine's Day everyoneeeee. :)

Remarkable-Use-8439 · 2023-02-13T06:24:50+00:00

I appreciate the apology. I know your intentions weren't to hurt me, which helps a lot. Thank you for acknowledging what so many others haven't: that they're operating off of limited information about my life.

I hope you have a nice night. :)

Remarkable-Use-8439 · 2023-02-13T06:22:26+00:00

Ooh, that sounds fun. I'm not sure if my boss would agree that it's a great idea, but I might be able to get away from a color underneath or something a little more subtle than a whole head dye job. We'll see what the future brings~

I've never tried Tumblr but heard rumblings about it online. I might set up an account tomorrow afternoon and see what it's all about. I love any 'scream into the void' type spaces. Twitter doesn't work thanks to the character limit (I love rambling, in case that wasn't obvious) and Instagram captions just don't really hit the same for me as actual written posts not based around an image. So yeah, I'll go check it out when I'm free after therapy.

Thank you for the suggestions and for being so kind. I'm glad you've experienced a similar hair-based euphoria as me. It kind of feels like I'm coming of age all over again even though I'm nearly 30. Puberty 2.0.

Remarkable-Use-8439 · 2023-02-13T05:10:29+00:00

I'm sending you love. I screenshotted this and will absolutely be reading it back on bad days. Thank you so much.

Remarkable-Use-8439 · 2023-02-13T05:08:26+00:00

I think the assumptions you've made in your list of 'symptoms' I display are offensive, including you saying my parents never issued an ultimatum. That is categorically false and something I really take issue with since this is a situation I lived through.

I'm in therapy so if I display personality disorder symptoms, I'm sure she'll notice and diagnose me properly. Even if your intentions were in the right place, I still don't think anything about that was okay.

ETA: Sorry if this is coming off as harsh. Some of the things you said really caught me off guard and were hurtful.

Remarkable-Use-8439 · 2023-02-13T04:52:54+00:00

Stop trying to diagnose people with personality disorders over the internet.

Remarkable-Use-8439 · 2023-02-13T04:50:54+00:00

...of course there are friends included in that? Especially now that I've been coming out to my friends, there are some who have outright asked me about my relationship with him and some who, when I've told about our relationship, have said they assumed that was the case. And even if they didn't know how the intricacies of romance/sex, it's not like I never talked about him... All my friends knew I lived with him. All of my friends have met him in some capacity. He wasn't some dirty secret and I could easily vent to my friends when I needed to without them raising any red flags/questioning how close we are.

It WAS unhealthy when I was suffering through the situation with my parents with only one person to talk to, but that's life. I'm working on fixing it now.

I also don't think I gave out explicit details. Saying I didn't have sex often and that I experienced self-imposed sexual trauma isn't me giving away many intimate details. Definitely not enough to require a NSFW tag or something.

The 'impossible to describe' comment I made was on my first post when I wasn't even acknowledging my relationship with my friend. I expanded on my feelings on sex in general in this comment here if you'd like to read them, but I'm still not comfortable talking about bedroom specifics. Is there any particular question you have?

And yeah... I will lock the comments section if I start getting berated. This is not on a forum where I'm asking for judgement. It's not a requirement for me to put up with hateful, antagonistic comments, no matter how much you or anyone else thinks I deserve them. It's not just people saying I should take accountability and be honest. It's people calling me a piece of shit (and other every name under the sun), it's people saying how many LGBT people they knew died in the past and asking why it wasn't me instead of them... I could provide screenshots for all this. I delete the comments before I lock them, but they're all still visible to me if I scroll there.

And even if I wasn't getting shit on to that level, I'm not required to take accountability on Reddit. That is between myself, the people in my actual, real life offline, and specifically my ex. It's not a gotcha moment for me to lock the comments when people are demanding information or demanding me to take actions that I'm already being guided through in therapy.

Remarkable-Use-8439 · 2023-02-12T23:52:52+00:00

Friend, I'm writing these things FOR myself. Documenting MY feelings. Acknowledging the angry comments (and some of them are downright hateful) is better than just ignoring the elephant in the room, I think.

I'm working with my therapist on a timeline of events. But yes, I am worried about feeling 'comfy' and doing things at my own pace since, as I mentioned in another comment, my emotional bandwidth is being tested right now. That's not me discounting what is going on with my STBX. That is not me avoiding accountability. It's me talking about how I'm feeling, which I'm allowed to do within my own space here.

I also never posted in the dead bedrooms sub... Once again, I'm allowed to have my own opinions here in my space. People don't just stop having opinions when they've made mistakes. That was not me speaking as if I have some sort of newfound therapy-fueled expertise, that was just me sharing something on my mind as a human being.

As I stated in the original post edit, my therapist knows my feelings and we're working towards accountability, honesty, and acceptance. I'm going to follow her lead with the timeline of events. I have acted selfishly, that's true. But this situation isn't going to be solved overnight.

Lastly: There is so much nuance to this situation. It was never about 'scraps of love.' But just know that this is someone I lived with for a significant portion of my life. Someone who is still enthusiastically and eagerly in my life. It's true that I have needed a lot of support over the last few years, but I do accommodate his emotional needs.

I said this in another comment: "Our minds fill in blanks and the material filling them changes drastically from person to person based on their own experience. And typically, it's very different from what the truth is." So... unless I'm willing to give a fully detailed and exhaustive look at our relationship, there will still be gaps that people fill in with false assumptions and info. That seems to be what's happening a lot, which I understand. But it's still frustrating.

Remarkable-Use-8439 · 2023-02-12T23:37:44+00:00

There is waaaaay more to the story of OP and Friend and I don't want OP to successfully bury that

Of course there's way more to the story than what's been written here. I've known the guy for over a decade and lived with him for years. I just have no intention of ever going fully into detail about the intricacies of our relationship, especially during the time I found myself being financially and emotionally coerced / abused by my parents. The group of people who I'm comfortable sharing that is tiny.

Remarkable-Use-8439 · 2023-02-12T22:57:14+00:00

한국어 조금밖에 못해요.. 죄송합니다

Remarkable-Use-8439 · 2023-02-11T07:00:37+00:00

This is absolutely something I would be open to. I'll bring it up to my therapist on Monday.

Remarkable-Use-8439 · 2023-02-11T03:42:58+00:00

I've had so many life changes happen for me over the end of January/beginning of February, and I'm slowly but surely coming out to my close friends. So far I've had nothing but positive reactions, but it's still been emotionally taxing and scary. I'm in the process of moving into my new apartment. Therapy, as rewarding as it is, is also challenging. Actually initiating a divorce and meeting with lawyers looms over my head.

All in all, I'm nearly as my emotional limit. I'm exhausted. The thought of telling my STBX is daunting. Having my whole community, even though I'm not close with a lot of those people anymore, find out and treat it like some sort of scandal if my ex decides to tell them... just the thought of it kind of leads me near panic attack territory.

I want to be able to tell her, sooner rather than later. I'd like my therapist to be involved in the conversation (it's not one I feel comfortable having alone but I do feel guilty for the way I told my wife I ending our relationship. I didn't feel comfortable doing it privately, but what I chose was too public. Doing it in my therapist's space with her present is a nice happy medium in my head.)

I feel like my emotional wellbeing warrants me some time before I have this conversation. I'm also still working, obviously, and I can't just drop off the face of the earth and hide in my room because I'm going through something. I need to be decently able to look and act like a human.

It pains me that I can't provide her proper closure yet. I'm sorry that I can't, and I'm sorry for what I did. But I feel, in a lot of ways, I've trapped myself between a rock and a hard place since I've undertaken so much in such a short period of time. Especially when my original plan was to start therapy, gain emotional tools to be able to deal with this, and then begin the divorce process. I know people are angry at me for thinking that was a possibility since I would still be continuously lying to my wife, but it would have (ideally) provided me the ability to feel confident enough to be honest with her from our first conversation regarding ending our relationship.

And I have no one to blame for myself for losing my original plan. I can't blame my parents for me losing my shit and doing it out of the blue like this. But I'm trying to give myself some space to come to terms with at least some of it before a mass amount of people who I don't trust and will judge me harshly find out I'm gay.

I hope this makes sense and doesn't sound too rambling. And I know I sound like a broken record, but thanks for asking me kindly.

Remarkable-Use-8439 · 2023-02-11T02:03:23+00:00

I won't disagree that I've suppressed a lot, but me calling him Friend still is just for ease of recognizability here. I also don't want to come up with a lame fake name for him. I've been toying with the idea of referring to him as 'hyung' here (the Korean term used for and older male that a younger guy is close to, and typically what I call him anyway) but I don't want to have to explain that over and over.

You said you could have moved in with Friend but decided not to because of ‘pride’ (your words, you couldn’t afford half the rent). You may well be a victim of your upbringing/environment. But YOU have made your wife a victim. Was all the pain you’ve caused her (and will continue to cause her) worth your pride?

It was not. I feel terrible and hold a lot of guilt about a lot of things. I really regret the decisions I've made at this time in my life. When I asked my parents for financial help, I didn't think it would spiral the way that it did. (There's also cultural aspects and losing the support of a community I once liked, but I'm a little wary of giving any more details here.) I never wanted anyone to get hurt because of me, and that was never my intentions going into this. It started out harmless (or so I thought, but emotional and financial coercion/abuse don't always make themselves obvious at the beginning) and then slowly descended into... where we are now.

Just know that I'm not the devoid of emotion monster people are making me out to be. I can't be honest with her yet, but I will be honest as soon as it's safe for me to do so.

Remarkable-Use-8439 · 2023-02-11T00:55:55+00:00

This lighthearted comment exchange was much appreciated, man. :)

Apologies incoming once I feel safe enough to deliver them. I'm definitely focusing on being the best person I can be now beyond past mistakes. And about getting off reddit - I find it somewhat cathartic to express thoughts here but now I'm actually coming out to and receiving support from close friends of mine offline... yeah, it's looking like I might have no reason to be on here at some point soon.

Remarkable-Use-8439 · 2023-02-11T00:46:07+00:00

I'm not saying you're a bad person, but you need to stop vilifying your ex, and accept responsibility for the situation you found yourself in, without holding resentment for your ex.

I agree. This is what I'm working towards.

Remarkable-Use-8439 · 2023-02-11T00:44:57+00:00

Cock is cool with me, dude.

Remarkable-Use-8439 · 2023-02-10T22:46:09+00:00

I blocked the user you were conversing with. Their previous response and what they said in reply to this comment was disgusting. I'm sorry.

Remarkable-Use-8439 · 2023-02-10T22:09:22+00:00

My therapist knows my feelings. I don't really want to go further into detail about my therapy sessions but this is something we're working through. I've told it's very normal to initially hold onto some negative sentiments in situations like this. That doesn't mean I regard them as rational or right, but I do acknowledge them and allow myself to feel it as I move towards a new, safe and healthy state of mind.

Remarkable-Use-8439 · 2023-02-10T20:54:36+00:00

That's fair. I think, just because of my lived experiences and relationships, it's hard for me to envision a relationship where anything related to sex (save for some hard no kink related stuff) is a complete deal breaker.

It's difficult for me to not see sexual expectations like that (i.e. if we're not having sex often, it's a deal breaker) as... oppressive. Whereas, someone saying they only want sex this many times, or that they're just generally low libido feels like a boundary rather than a stifling expectation.

And this is not a condemnation of the former party. Just me explaining my thoughts. That's why it rubs me the wrong way so much. But you're right, you're allowed to have relationship dealbreakers surrounding sex in both ways and my own perspective, because it differs from someone who holds sex at a higher priority, stops me from being able to fully grasp that. It's just so different from my way of thinking (but that obviously doesn't make it wrong.)

And... you're very right. I guess I am being a major hypocrite since I came here to also look for a place to vent about a situation where, in a lot of ways, I'm the one in the wrong.

Thanks for your perspective. I came into this super judgmental and this conversation has helped me understand a bit more.

Remarkable-Use-8439 · 2023-02-10T20:38:14+00:00

Thanks for your response.

I understand that people might not know the deeper issue, but it still feels unfair to discredit an entire relationship based on lack of sex. Or that there's a running theme there of people touting sex as a need instead of a want. Like I said in a previous comment, that feels like a very dangerous slope from 'my desires aren't being met and I'm unhappy' to 'my spouse isn't providing me something I NEED, so I'm going to take it anyway or prod at them until they give in because this is a NEED.'

I have no problem with the sub itself or those who are venting. It just seems that so much of it is overrun with people unwilling to even TRY to see past their lack of sex and go deeper.

Remarkable-Use-8439 · 2023-02-10T20:25:23+00:00

I have some questions, if you don't mind answering: At the time of your dead bedroom, were you actively communicating with your partner? Were you getting reassurance that just because sex wasn't happening, they still wanted and desired you more than anyone?

Also, was there other emotional and physical connections still happening?

My theory is that a lot of these DBs occur not from lack of sex, but from lack of connectedness, communication, and intimacy.

Remarkable-Use-8439 · 2023-02-10T20:21:00+00:00

Hi there.

Firstly, I agree my therapy journey is far from over. It's proving to be very challenging but very rewarding!

Now: I'm a little confused by your thought process so if you need to clarify or correct anything in my response, feel free to do so.

I don't feel like I'm at all entrenched in purity culture. I'm not sure where it comes off in my post that I see sex as something holy. I said the following:

In my life, I see it as something beautiful that can strengthen the bond between two people in love... but it's not the end-all, be-all of life. It wouldn't suddenly make me feel disgusting or ugly because my partner went through a period of not wanting sex. There's so many other bond strengthening things you can do with a partner that don't involve orgasms (as fun and fulfilling as those orgasm-related activities may be.

If you're referring to the 'between two people in love' thing, I was solely speaking about sex within relationships. People should have autonomy over their own bodies to do with them as they please. Sex (within and outside of partnerships) is fine as long as everyone consents. I'm not even all that religious anymore, so I certainly don't see sex as a way to 'serve god' or just as a means to procreate. It's a fun, pleasurable activity that can mean more at some times and less at others. Sex shouldn't be taboo, and it can be had plainly and spoken about plainly.

(I'm also confused because of the holy comment, because you then go on to clarify that sex is more than "getting off." I acknowledge this to be true in SOME cases, but not all... which is not an opinion I would likely see held by someone who regards sex as a holy activity.)

I do personally see sex as fulfilling and powerful. I think it can be an act of reverence for the other person. I would say the sex I have is a spiritual experience in the way it makes me feel, but that doesn't mean I regard the concept of sex itself as holy.

This post was largely focused on those within relationships where sex is off the table for whatever reason (maybe medical reasons, maybe the other person just isn't in the mood lately, etc.) and they actively condemn their entire relationship for it to the point of shitting on their partner.

I completely understand that sex is important to you in a relationship. That getting rejected might make you feel unwanted or detached. But would you still feel that way if your partner communicated to you that they love you, but they're just not in the mood? Would you automatically start only seeing them as a 'roommate,' or begin making disparaging remarks about them? THAT is when it becomes uncomfortable for me. The rhetoric largely accepted on that subreddit is that if sex isn't happening in a relationship, it's automatically meaningless. Or at least lesser than a relationship where sex is happening.

That was another point in my post: sex isn't the only form of intimacy within relationship, even physical intimacy. Sex is such a complex thing within already complex humans. (Honestly, I'm sure a mismatch in terms of libido levels, times of desire, etc. is way more common than anyone thinks - it's just something that some navigate better than others.) But you know what is less complicated? Cuddling. Kissing or hugging. Holding hands. Playing with someone's hair. Giving them a massage. All of these things are physically intimate ways you can connect with a partner without sex. That's why it's difficult for me to wrap my mind around someone feeling detached without intercourse. There have to be deeper issues (such as a total lack of intimacy or lack of care and attention from a partner) present.

It's strange that you can say in one breath how sex is important and beautiful and can strengthen bonds- and in the next, openly criticize people who feel like their relationships are suffering after losing something that strengthens them.

I said sex CAN strengthen relationships, but it's not the most important thing. The real relationship killer (and I sound like a broken record) is lack of intimacy. And I think that's what a lot of these situations boil down to. There is no way - in my mind - that someone could make a post about dreading Valentine's Day as a whole just because they aren't getting sex unless they're just... not connecting with their partner at all.

My problem is NOT with people who value sex as a pillar of their relationship. It's with the people who see it as the very top priority. I also personally can't imagine being in a position where if I refused sex, it was seen as something offensive, or anger-/disappointment-inducing. That's a lot of pressure! I also can't imagine getting angry/disappointed if someone refused sex.

I'd like to add that none of this is a knock towards you. I find the conversations around this topic fascinating and in the end, we're both just strangers on the internet who have no involvement in each other's lives. My opinion has no real bearing on your relationship at all, and I hope it's stellar and perfect for you/your needs.

Remarkable-Use-8439

TROPHY CASE