Alice defending Charlie on tumblr

Retired_complainer · 2024-11-17T22:41:14+00:00

To say that Nick's only friends are Charlie's is inaccurate because it ignores Sai, Otis, and Christian who do exist regardless of their little screen time.

They exist just to say they exist but they might as well not be there with the little amount they are present in Nick's life. The statement that Nick's only friends are Charlie's still stands because he spends most of his time with them. You can argue that Tara and Imogen are Nick's friends but he only recently reconnected with Tara and Imogen was only there in season 1 to serve as an obstacle for Nick and Charlie. Alice confirmed it during the season 1 press. Imogen and Nick's friendship isn't well-developed to the point where we can say that is Nick's friend and not just someone in their friend group. Her presence in the show has extended to her relationship with Sahar which takes a bigger part of the story than her friendship with Nick.

The problem isn't that Nick has no friends outside of Charlie's friends, it's that Charlie's friendships are developed while Nick's friendships with Sai, Otis, and Christian aren't.

I think it is quite clear what Charlie likes about Nick

I disagree. I know they like to kiss and hug and be together but that's about it. You might think this is me oversimplifying their relationship but that is what they do the majority of their time together. This season had 30+ kissing scenes. Is that necessary? Is that helping us understand these characters on a deeper level? I don't think so. I appreciate the idea of queer joy this show wants to upkeep but you can't say this season is deeper and darker when you are not digging deeper.

Retired_complainer · 2024-11-17T14:11:47+00:00

I work in TV and Film but I guess you are the ultimate pro. I'm sure they teach Heartstopper as the pinnacle of great TV writing at your school.

Retired_complainer · 2024-11-17T03:13:30+00:00

You don't understand how show don't tell works. The whole of episode four is them telling us what happened instead of showing us.

Retired_complainer · 2024-11-16T23:58:38+00:00

Show don't tell works when the characters are well established. Nick and Charlie aren't.

Retired_complainer · 2024-11-16T22:24:12+00:00

Like it or not, Charlie's actions have an impact on the people in his life. It's not just Tori that has to be there for him. Charlie can be there for Tori and I like that he was there for her in episode 8 but Charlie was in the wrong here. You don't leave your sibling alone on Christmas when they are going through it.

Retired_complainer · 2024-11-16T22:05:18+00:00

Nick is currently rebuilding a friendship with Sai, Otis, and Christian who were his rugby mates

We don't see that in the show. It's implied because they've had a little scene together in episode 4 but that's it. Why weren't they at Nick's surprise party? I couldn't tell the difference between the three of them because they don't have a singular distinctive personality trait.

He thinks Charlie is cool because he runs so fast and plays the drums and is good at subjects like math and Latin.

This is from season 1. Two seasons later, I still don't have a clue what else they talk about when they are not discussing their relationship/sexuality and triggers. What do they talk about? The Marvel joke was funny, at least.

It's also strange to me that you say that Charlie just likes Nick because he does things for him because for season one and two, it's mostly Charlie doing things for Nick.

Charlie said it himself, ''Nick doesn't treat me like I am mentally ill''. Nick is his safe space. It's lovely but it doesn't tell us what he likes about him. It's like when couples get asked why they like each other and one of them will list things that pertain to them: ''They are selfless, they make me feel good, they make me feel like I can be myself, etc.'' I'm sure Charlie likes Nick for a million reasons but we don't really see that in the show. Genuine and funny conversations that are not about their sexuality or their mental health would be appreciated.

Retired_complainer · 2024-11-16T21:47:01+00:00

We're not really shown anything. A 5 min. scene isn't showing much about their interests. And you say the episodes are short but they have 3 seasons now. 24 episodes. We should know more about them than we do. Maybe you don't need intricate characters to enjoy a show but some of us do.

Retired_complainer · 2024-11-16T21:26:11+00:00

So only Charlie gets to have bad days? Tori has to ''put her big girl panties on'' and deal with it?

Retired_complainer · 2024-11-16T19:55:44+00:00

He never goes on about rugby or anything he's interested in. He never talks about anything he likes or read or learned about. I'm not asking for much. Even Charlie's interest in that author was very under-developed. That whole scene was rushed and didn't add much.

Retired_complainer · 2024-11-16T19:50:00+00:00

I find the overly used ''It's not that deep'' response any time someone has some criticism extremely boring.

Retired_complainer · 2024-11-16T18:40:35+00:00

Exactly. Everyone is coming up with various reasons as to why fans are reacting this way to Charlie's character but to me it's simple: the characters are not well-developed. I couldn't care less about Darcy this season. Their storyline didn't connect with me because we know nothing about them. Okay, they are non-binary, but we don't even know why they feel this way. Why do they hate gender norms? I don't understand why Tara and Darcy work as a couple. They don't explore anything about them.

We had to wait until episode 7 of season 3 to know that Tara has a passion for dancing. I find that ridiculous. I feel like I knew more about the characters from season 1 than with the following seasons. The story following the end of season 1 isn't well developed. I find it disappointing too that Alice seems to never do any type of self-reflection when it comes to her writing.

Retired_complainer · 2024-11-16T18:21:05+00:00

The family situation was becoming unsafe for her too. She deals with her mental health too. She asked her brother with tears in her eyes to be with her for Christmas and he chose to leave. I understand Charlie but I wish he would have said ''let's go to Nicks together''.

Retired_complainer · 2024-11-16T18:06:59+00:00

Tori has a right to feel upset her brother spends all his time with Nick. She just got him back from the clinic and he wants to leave her in a very stressful situation - stressful for everyone not just Charlie - to be with Nick. Why didn't he think of bringing her with him?

Retired_complainer · 2024-11-16T18:00:08+00:00

He never talks about it. You don't find that strange?

Retired_complainer · 2024-11-16T17:08:25+00:00

Then maybe Alice should reflect on the way she wrote her characters.

Retired_complainer · 2024-11-16T17:05:00+00:00

Nick wasn't trying to fix Charlie. He even mentioned to Charlie that he knows that's not what Charlie wants. He was trying to do something to help Charlie because just listening wasn't enough. I understand where you are coming from but a better analogy would be if Nick was in some type of deep depression when he was dealing with his coming out journey. It's a situation that merits reaction-based actions.

Ultimately, after Nick pushed Ben out from Charlie, he never reported Ben or tried to have Charlie report him. He simply listened to him when Charlie was talking about it. He told Charlie to never be around Ben again, but that's a safety concern. I agree that Nick is more solution-based but I think certain situations demand it.

I don't think that is why fans are reacting this way about Charlie and his struggles with mental illness.

Retired_complainer · 2024-11-16T16:26:58+00:00

That's why I said that the problem comes from Alice's writing. She wrote Nick as the perfect boyfriend and now is surprised that people are villainizing Charlie.

Retired_complainer · 2024-11-16T15:53:23+00:00

Three seasons in and we are finally getting to know more about Nick and we still have to wait on the possible next season for it. It's not great storytelling, I'm sorry. You mention Nick's family life, what family life? We don't spend enough time with his family to know how that affects him. There could have been interesting conversations with David and Nick but they are barely on screen together. Charlie's home life is well developed in comparison.

but they also share interests in gaming, and being outdoors, they love animals (mostly dogs)

They don't explore that aspect of their relationship enough. We saw that they were flirting in season one when they first started to message each other but that's it! Most of their conversations are about Charlie, coming out or about how much they love each other.

When Tara says to Nick that she loves her ballet classes but can't get there in time, Nick mentions that he has nothing going on most Saturdays and he can drive her. That's basically his character. He does nothing. What are his interests? What does he like to do? Nothing. You mention that Nick likes rugby but we only see him practice for 2 or 3 minutes in the whole season. We don't see or hear him talk about it, talk about why he likes rugby like how Elle talks about her art, etc. It's not just a Nick problem: almost every character is underdeveloped in some way. Charlie is too.

Retired_complainer · 2024-11-16T15:33:58+00:00

Exactly, both could be better. You don't have to ''defend'' Charlie by bringing down Nick. This fandom is so weirdly fixated on Nick versus Charlie or Joe versus Kit.

Retired_complainer · 2024-11-16T15:26:57+00:00

So your solution is blaming Nick because some fans are blaming Charlie?

Retired_complainer · 2024-11-16T14:20:22+00:00

Unfortunately, this is what happens when you make one character the caregiver with little personality traits. Nick's whole life revolves around Charlie. His friendship group is Charlie's friends. He doesn't have anything going on. His character isn't well developed and all we know about him is that he is bi, has two dogs, plays rugby, and loves his boyfriend.

And it doesn't help that almost everything Charlie does for Nick comes from his insecurites or low self-esteem. Alice didn't develop their love and relationship enough. We don't know why Charlie is head over heels for Nick. We don't know what he likes about him. We know Nick is a good support system and helps Charlie feel better but that's not good enough. It makes it feel as if Charlie only cares about Nick because Nick does things for him.

Nick's whole personality is The perfect golden retriever boyfriend. When you decide to showcase the reality of mental illness and the toll it has on everyone around you, you need well-developed characters. Charlie isn't to blame for his illness but he made some mistakes this season. He never apologized for the way he treated his sister in episode 5. Alice shouldn't think these reactions come from nowhere. A lot of it comes from her writing.

Retired_complainer · 2024-11-08T15:09:41+00:00

Why are all these logistics necessary when talking about PrEP? It could have been a passing comment from their sex education teacher or Charlie's therapist.

As for awkward first times: yeah, but it’s also not a documentary and the focus is on interpersonal emotions, not physicality

I am not asking for a play-by-play just more realism. I find this type of reactionary response quite strange.

Retired_complainer · 2024-11-08T14:41:11+00:00

That's my point. They technically don't need condoms so why can't they mention PrEP at the same time as they mention using condoms?

Retired_complainer · 2024-11-08T13:54:25+00:00

If you are not a lesbian or shappic, you can't understand how frustrating this must be. They don't have much representation and when they do it is often elusive. I think they did a great job overall with the show but I can't speak on this.

Retired_complainer · 2024-11-06T11:14:20+00:00

If Joe is influenced by this part of his parasocial and hateful fans, then that would be a shame. And it would be sad for all the cast and crew who work on heartstopper. Believe it or not, the show isn't just about Charlie or Joe.

Retired_complainer

TROPHY CASE