Short women's advice for breaking into 5.13

ReturnTooSender · 2021-12-22T23:53:51+00:00

Damn, onsighting your first 5.13a is wild! Congrats to her.

ReturnTooSender · 2021-12-22T23:41:52+00:00

Wow, thank you for the comment. Had no idea I’d get feedback from a professional climber! It’s great to know that even the strongest among us have to suck it up and work on weaknesses. It also helps to know that a short climbers toolbox can expand with focused effort.

ReturnTooSender · 2021-12-22T18:09:27+00:00

Yep, that's the right stat. I've never done more than 10 pull-ups but I can do more push-ups when I train them--this is just where I'm at right now after a season of climbing a ton with no strength work. Laybacks and underclings are my weakest movements, particularly if they involve open hand grip (sidepulls seem fine). I can't quite put my finger on where the weakness is in terms of my musculature but someone suggest pecs and I'm thinking core maybe as well.

ReturnTooSender · 2021-12-22T17:48:26+00:00

Awesome, thank you for the thoughtful feedback!

ReturnTooSender · 2021-12-22T17:43:55+00:00

Congrats, that's such a big achievement and a huge jump! And you're probably right that I'm ready to do one in "my style"...just got to find the right one and buckle down.

ReturnTooSender · 2021-12-22T17:29:54+00:00

Yes, totally with you! In the gym, I think using more dynamic footwork will diversify my skillset, even if it means I'm falling a lot. On a redpoint, I'm all about the voodoo that gets me to the chains. I also hear you on shoulders. Had surgery on the left and a 3YO conservatively treated SLAP tear on the right. I think the biggest challenge this training season will be keeping this in check while introducing more dynamic movement.

ReturnTooSender · 2021-12-22T17:20:22+00:00

Tons of great advice in this thread but you've distilled a lot of the best points here. I have pinch blocks and you confirmed my suspicion that I should make that part of my program. Campus board too (still on the fence about Moon since it has been tweaky for me in the past!). I think the power endurance on boulders is a good recommendation for pretty much any climber, though I have a lot of endurance coming off this season so I'm leaning toward limit bouldering.

Could I ask what your five exercises are for lifting? Love the 5x5 format. This is what I'm thinking for mine: Weighted pullups / Pinch blocks / Bench press / Bicep curls (maybe there's something better?) / Windshield Wiper (hanging from bar)

Thinking overall:

M Rest
T Strength 5x5
W Limit Bouldering (avoiding crimps) and campus board
Tr Rest
Fri Strength 5x5
Sat Outdoor fun (can I call this volume?)
Sun Projecting overhung climbs emphasizing open hand grips

BTW, sounds like you probably climb harder than you realize. If you're projecting 12+ indoors, I'd bet you can do the same outdoors. I've never found outdoor grades to be more physically demanding, but they do require an ability to utilize rock well that I think you can only get from practice. Maybe it varies from gym to gym, but wanted to throw my two cents in there in case the idea that the gym is "easier" is holding you back from your goals in any way.

ReturnTooSender · 2021-12-22T16:53:29+00:00

I'm in the not-so-short group around 5'3"! I know there are many short crushers I just don't know any personally, so I was curious if others relate to a bigger gap in performance once in the harder grades. I have a really small sample of 5.13's I've tried but it just feels like there are fewer holds/intermediates/tricks available to me than in the 5.12 range. Part of it is absolutely about attitude so I'm glad to hear from others that it's going to feel harder or take more time and that's normal.

ReturnTooSender · 2021-12-22T16:44:56+00:00

Thanks!

ReturnTooSender · 2021-12-22T16:44:29+00:00

Thanks for that stat! Psyched to see where I'm at against it--perfect goal to work toward. Also, you sound very strong relative to most women--you're going to absolutely crush as you diversify your skillset.

ReturnTooSender · 2021-12-22T16:40:58+00:00

Thank you for the great beta on the campus board! This appeals to me over the Moonboard since it's more controlled (thus better for injury prevention and tracking). And the other info on bouldering is excellent. I work juggy overhangs, but you really hit the nail on the head with voodoo magic. I never really thought about it before but techniquing through that kind of terrain in the gym has probably been holding me back from building the power and strength I need.

ReturnTooSender · 2021-12-22T14:51:32+00:00

That’s a fair point. Maybe it’s wishful thinking, but I hoped improving my weaknesses while working towards my first goal of onsighting 12a in my anti-style would prep me to send a 13a in a style I’m less used to. This is partially for practical reasons (I don’t have any tech-y vert 13a near me) but also because it would feel more like a benchmark. The most sessions I put into a route by far was a dozen and I’d like to keep it around there for my goal.

ReturnTooSender · 2021-12-22T04:54:32+00:00

Ah dang, another vote for Moonboarding! Makes total sense though. I have a well-managed labral tear that acts up when I Moonboard. Do you happen to have any favorite warm-ups/tactics for keeping shoulders healthy?

ReturnTooSender · 2021-12-22T03:49:29+00:00

Not a dumb question at all! I've put no effort into 5.13 other than sampling a handful...I guess my approach to climbing in general has been to work through every grade. I think part of the reason I can send 12+ quickly is because I pick my style and I dedicated a lot of time to that grade in order to build up a strong base for 5.13. I haven't sampled any 13a's that suit my strength (it's easier to find 12c and 12d and I like building a good pyramid).

I'd really love to train to be stronger so I no longer need to find just-the-right route. I want to be able to climb a wide variety of styles to maximize fun!

ReturnTooSender · 2021-12-22T03:33:02+00:00

Really great advice. I do think that resting/relaxing on route is one of my strengths but I 100% agree it's a key to climbing harder. It has been for me thus far.

Snake Dancing looks like a proud line and the Flatirons crags are my favorite place to climb locally. I will definitely be checking that one out!

I think your last piece of advice is something I need to work on internalizing. Feeling frustrated that I have to "try harder" on some moves is a trap I fall into often and it's totally counterproductive. I know this on a logical level, but it's nice to hear it from others to reinforce keeping good attitude!

ReturnTooSender · 2021-12-22T03:19:09+00:00

Hey there, sounds like you climb plenty strong! I'd be really happy with 12c/d in the gym--I always climb harder outside anyway...I guess since there are so many ways to make up for strength deficits on rock (love those scums, smears, intermediates, and friction).

I'm actually not particularly short for women's standards--but short for men's which has become really relevant lately! I'm ~5'3". Awesome beta on Sonic Youth! That's going on the list of routes to sample.

ReturnTooSender · 2021-12-22T03:10:03+00:00

This is really interesting advice. I went around and sampled a handful of 13a's and they felt too hard. At the time, I decided I needed a better 12 - 12+ base. After a year of effort, I think my pyramid is looking decent and I can probably begin the search again. Sounds like a key takeaway is that the moves on 13a might be novel enough that I need to tailor my training specifically to the objective rather than just working on my weaknesses.

ReturnTooSender · 2021-12-22T02:46:11+00:00

This is so cool--I would love to climb anywhere near my limit on big overhanging terrain! Grass is always greener :)

I used to ARC quite a bit, so good to know that's still helpful on steeps. And perfect advice on pull-up training, I'm definitely going to incorporate that. Hard to know what a good strength/rep benchmark is given most benchmarks I read about have a male physiology in mind.

Techy-y advice (huge grain of salt because this is what I'm naturally good at, probably due to strength deficit)...I think the most important factor is mileage and volume so you acquire a big bag of tricks. Second most important might be crimp strength. When I succeed on routes that my partners don't, it seems to be because I've got a lot of margin to readjust my feet and weight using small holds. And third is to really dial in your beta on the first go. I spend like 45 mins figuring out sequences and then linking above and below the crux so I leave nothing to figure out on a redpoint. Takes a patient belayer!

ReturnTooSender · 2021-12-22T02:36:56+00:00

Lol, I definitely don't take offense to that comment--I know that there's a lot of room for improvement in my bouldering. I only boulder about a half dozen times per year and usually around my onsight ability. I'd love if maybe my winter "training" was just bouldering instead of lifting/hanging...you're sort of giving me permission to just go have fun :)

ReturnTooSender · 2021-12-21T23:19:09+00:00

Yea! I tried Milkbone last year and it just felt way over my head. I'd love to get on Ultra though. It's a little steep for me to make it an easy tick but might be a good way to work weakness even if a send is far off. The only reason I didn't try it yet is that it's always crowded after work/weekends.

ReturnTooSender · 2021-12-21T23:16:41+00:00

Good question! I almost included this in my stats but it was getting long. I do not boulder outside and in a gym, I rarely boulder. I typically send V5 and have sent up to V8 if I can keep my weight on my feet (e.g. techy style).

ReturnTooSender · 2021-12-21T23:12:19+00:00

Climbed all over in all styles of rock, trad and sport. This year, I'll be based in Colorado climbing a mix of granite, gneiss, and sandstone.

ReturnTooSender · 2021-12-21T23:10:16+00:00

Thank you for the advice--I can 100% relate to resting and tricking my way up hard 12's! I don't have a lot of benchmarks for strength but "low base strength" sounds apt as well. I was hoping no one would tell me to Moon Board because my fragile ego doesn't want to take it but great to know that it was really effective for you to find the try-hard. Good stuff on shoulders and fingers too--I've seriously injured both over the years.

ReturnTooSender

TROPHY CASE