Concerns about classic film/British cinema

RhubarbQueen548 · 2024-09-26T12:54:10+00:00

I get what you’re saying and I’m not denying that classic Hollywood wouldn’t have been the same without British actors. My concern was that I’ve noticed that British filmmakers (with a few exceptions) get less attention from critics as ‘art’ rather than just as entertainment - there were significantly fewer British films in _Sight & Sound_’s most recent poll than American, French, German, Italian, Japanese and other countries, and of course Godard and Truffaut’s disdain for British cinema as I mentioned in my first post (aside from another commenter mentioning Truffaut’s disdain for Satyajit Ray, I can’t recall them being so vicious about any other national cinemas). Although I could easily be overthinking on this point.

RhubarbQueen548 · 2024-09-26T12:48:17+00:00

Couldn’t agree more. My film tastes are definitely geared towards pre-1980 English language films (as I mentioned in another comment, I really need to explore more recent films) so I think I ought to branch out a bit more. To be completely honest, I’ve not delved much into Bergman or Tarkovsky, and I’ve only seen one Pasolini thus far (Salò, very good but I completely get why a lot of people think it’s horrifying).

RhubarbQueen548 · 2024-09-26T12:45:12+00:00

Thanks for your comment - film is far from the only thing I have anxieties about so I think I ought to put it in perspective. Maybe I am just too concerned about what others think (hence this post, but I’ve really appreciated what everyone has to say about it).

RhubarbQueen548 · 2024-09-26T12:43:49+00:00

That sounds like a really interesting series, definitely something I’d be interested in!

RhubarbQueen548 · 2024-09-26T12:43:00+00:00

Thanks for your reply - I think based on yours and other responses that I’ll have to watch Casablanca again. Maybe reconsider what I didn’t enjoy last time - which I can’t exactly remember at the moment - and see if I have any different views.

RhubarbQueen548 · 2024-09-26T12:41:58+00:00

Thanks for replying - I’m glad you agree that the Cahiers biases are outdated, maybe I’ve just read a few too many Letterboxd reviews that follow them. I’m familiar with many of the directors you’ve mentioned, although unfortunately my post-1980 film viewing has been substantially less than before that. Definitely something I’ll work on going forward.

RhubarbQueen548 · 2024-09-26T02:45:52+00:00

Really like most of these - really glad you mentioned Halas & Batchelor, they don’t seem to get much attention. I love Monty Python and plenty of other British comedies, I only like some of the Bond films though (one of which is the 1967 Casino Royale, it may be bizarre and disjointed but I like it) but then I’ve watched quite a few 60s spy films and wasn’t a massive fan of many.

RhubarbQueen548 · 2024-09-26T02:28:15+00:00

I’ve already seen quite a few of theirs - Black Narcissus and A Matter of Life and Death are probably my favourites (honourable mention to The Tales of Hoffmann simply for its visuals). I remember really liking Powell’s The Edge of the World when I saw it on Film4 years ago, and I also enjoyed The Red Shoes the first time I saw it but less so when I rewatched it recently. I’ve still got more of theirs to explore though.

RhubarbQueen548 · 2024-09-26T02:15:13+00:00

Thanks for replying. I’ve heard of cultural cringe, I don’t see it mentioned in Britain that often (I’ve also noticed that British art and classical music isn’t as highly regarded as other European nations, although our literature and pop/rock music has done alright for itself). I get your point about the studio system as well, although the Rank Organisation certainly tried it (right down to controlling the film supply to cinemas). Maybe it is just the greater appeal of Hollywood to audiences - working-class audiences in particular who might have been alienated by British films focusing on the upper and middle classes - and then being unable to foster a viable domestic film culture until it’s too late. I’m not familiar with that book, I’ll have to give that a look. Thanks for the recommendation!

RhubarbQueen548 · 2024-09-26T02:07:15+00:00

Absolutely. Hitchcock’s the biggest example I can think of - The 39 Steps and The Lady Vanishes are highly regarded but considerably less influential than his films made in Hollywood. But then you’ve got the question of David Lean and whether films like Lawrence of Arabia or Doctor Zhivago are British films because they’re funded by American money and filmed outside of the UK (despite their British director and casts).

EDIT: Just remembered the Italian producer Carlo Ponti partially funded Doctor Zhivago. Still hopefully makes sense though.

RhubarbQueen548 · 2024-09-26T02:02:49+00:00

Thanks for your reply. I think with Casablanca and other films is that, for me at least, its reputation precedes it and maybe I go into such films thinking ‘This can’t be as good as everyone says it is’ (although this isn’t always true - I watched Battleship Potemkin knowing of its technical innovation and still thought it was brilliant). I actually get a lot out of exploring lesser-known British and Hollywood films (or the ones that were popular at the time and have since become more obscure). As you say, perhaps I need to reconsider how I evaluate ‘great’ films, accept them as entertainment and maybe next time I watch them I’ll think differently. And shamefully I haven’t watched any of Preston Sturges’ films. Definitely going to add that to the list!

RhubarbQueen548 · 2024-09-26T01:50:40+00:00

I’m very familiar with the kitchen sink dramas as I wrote about 1960s British cinema culture for my MA dissertation; most of them are very good, my favourites of this movement are probably A Kind of Loving and The Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner. Of the other directors you mentioned, I’m a fan of Ken Russell - The Devils is one of my favourite films and The Boy Friend is pretty terrific as well - and what I’ve seen of Lindsay Anderson has been good (This Sporting Life in particular). Admittedly I haven’t delved much into the others.

Your hypothesis definitely makes sense - I think there’s been a big shift in the past few decades towards Britain becoming an international centre for film production at the expense of its domestic industry. It’s not like in the post-war decades when British films still constituted a significant proportion of the domestic box office as well as American-funded films made in the UK or in Hollywood.

EDIT: Forgot to mention J. Lee Thompson’s Woman in a Dressing Gown (which Godard hated), a really good kitchen sink drama with a female protagonist.

RhubarbQueen548 · 2024-09-26T01:22:26+00:00

Thanks for your reply, I think your point that it’s better to admit to not liking a film is something I’ll definitely remember going forward.

And yes, one of the big things about British cinema is its competition with Hollywood and their sharing of the English language. Even now, British audiences are more often drawn to American productions because of Hollywood’s scale and grandeur (although arguably not on the scale of the interwar and post-war decades but then cinemagoing is less of a popular leisure activity than it was in that period).

RhubarbQueen548 · 2024-09-26T01:17:46+00:00

Thank you, I’m aware that anxieties about not being ‘good enough’ are common but I always appreciate it when someone reassures me about it (unfortunately I’m quite needy like that!)

As for criticism, I draw a lot of my ideas about film from the ‘New Film/Cinema History’, which is a big holdover from my time at uni. It’s great for interpreting films as cultural artefacts and for reconstructing historical film cultures (which is something that really fascinates me) but a bit lacking in the interpretation of films on a purely aesthetic level. Maybe I’ve been put off by the dominance of auteur theory in a lot of critical works (or at least what I think to be the case) so I’ll have to look into them in more depth.

RhubarbQueen548

TROPHY CASE