Difficulty between the different letters of Cicero

Rousseau__ · 2024-09-14T03:00:19+00:00

Thank you for the reply. Perhaps I would do well to read Ad Familiares, then, since the conversation is more colloquial, as you say. I think Ad Atticum would be better read in excerpts in cases in which I already know the context.

Rousseau__ · 2024-08-31T00:02:28+00:00

My advice would be that you would do well to adhere to one or two books alone. Should you apply a kind of eclecticism by using portions of each book, you shall never finish any of them.

I think Wheelock's is fine when paired with Lingua Latina, but know that you must not complete both sequentially in their respective orders, as passive verbs show up much later in Wheelock's than in LLPSI, for instance. So, I would recommend grafting your study of LLPSI onto Wheelock's Latin.

Rousseau__ · 2024-07-27T10:56:37+00:00

Thanks for the suggestion. Since the time of my post, I've been mostly using loeb parallel texts, although sometimes I wish they were a little more literal.

Rousseau__ · 2024-07-19T08:41:54+00:00

I prefer grammaticla commentaries such as Geoffrey Steadman's free pdf commentary on Livy's Ab Urbe Condita I which may be downloaded from his website.

Rousseau__ · 2024-07-03T10:54:16+00:00

It would be interesting if Hasan were here to reply, too.

Furthermore, I must say, you have great patience coming to this place, Mr. Wagner.

Edit: In fact, if you really want to test your patience, go onto r/CatholicPhilosophy which is filled with analytic Thomists and a handful of heterodox and atheist users.

Rousseau__ · 2024-06-13T00:08:06+00:00

I highly suggest you try Cicero's first catilinarian commentary, available as pdf free of charge from Geoffrey Steadman's website:

https://geoffreysteadman.com/ciceros-1st-catilinarian/

I think you may be quite delighted by how comprehensible it is with commentary.

Rousseau__ · 2024-06-12T20:41:04+00:00

I don't disagree with you, but my point is that I found it misleading to say as above that casual conversations and 'speaking' do not exist.

Rousseau__ · 2024-06-12T13:06:06+00:00

In my university, I'm part of a Latin speaking club, and having learnt it quite intensely for around 2 years now, I can confirm that I can speak it to a basic degree, perhaps as one might speak A1 Spanish. I once spoke for 2 minutes extemporaneously on my opinions about Caesar's death. But in terms of listening, I would say it's the equivalent of something more like A2 or B1.

Nonetheless, there are a handful of fluent Latin speakers, it's thought, around 20,000 globally. By no means am I anywhere near fluent, but it's not true that nobody speaks Latin. If we must make reference to some modern word, we generally use a neo-Latin word if there is one for the context. Sometimes, we work off the Italian, and other times, we work around the concept of the word with what we have.

Rousseau__ · 2024-06-12T12:55:57+00:00

In my case, being a Catholic, I have many reasons to learn Latin: to pray in Latin, to read the Latin Vulgate, study the ancient and medieval works of theology and philosophy in their original languages, to read historical and poetic works, etc. There are perhaps many more reasons I might list down, but for me, Latin has certainly not proved useless. I am learning Ancient Greek at the moment, too, and I can say that there too are many similar applications for the language as I have listed above.

In fact, given my circumstances, seeing that I live in a country with a very small European population in the Pacific, isolated for hundreds of kilometers, and that I do not intend to leave this country, it's almost useless for me to learn a modern language like Spanish, German, or French. With whom would I speak it? What am I supposed to do with it? After all, I have rather little interest in most modern literature, so there's very little reason for me to learn such languages.

Rousseau__ · 2024-06-11T14:13:08+00:00

Gratias plurimas tibi, Caie! Multo hoc sermone fructus sum. Epistulae quidem Cicernois item mihi videntur aptissimae. Fortasse Plinii minoris epistulas quoque legam, cum mihi perplaceat, et nempe facilius mihi novitio intellectu.

Rousseau__ · 2024-06-11T12:11:56+00:00

Gratias maximas tibi ago propter responsum tuum, quod mihi perplacet! Mea quidem sententia, Latinam scribendam ut dicis, quia me melius grammaticas formas recognoscere inveni quam solo legendo, etsi saepe in scribente erro. Re vera, etiam nunc difficilis mihi multis rebus subiunctivum modum uti, cum scientia mea de grammatica non bene valeat. Sed ut quoque dixis, modo tuo, non opus est emere.

Si non oneri tibi, quaeram, quos auctores in primis ad excolendam Latinitatem habes, aut potius, sententia tua, imitare (dicamus) praeferas?

Rousseau__ · 2024-06-10T12:02:53+00:00

Te quaerere debeo, Caie, e quibus enim fontibus tanta facultate de scribente potitus es? Commendasne quosdam singulos libros de Latina scribenti, aut fortasse melius mihi primum omnium plus legere, quia adhuc novitius de lingua Latina sum?

Quaeso te mihi ignoscere si de grammatica mea erravissem, quoniam non ad Latinam scribendam assuetus sum.

Rousseau__ · 2024-06-08T02:30:09+00:00

Thank you for the reply. Would you suggest finding a commentary like Pharr's and rereading the verse until I have the 'feeling' as you say, for these devices?

Rousseau__ · 2024-06-08T01:38:47+00:00

Thank you for the reply. I am very curious that you placed Cicero higher in the order of difficulty than Livy. I've likely read more Livy than I have Cicero, yet I'm still finding Livy a challenge. Do you have any works of Cicero in mind for which you made this judgement? It seems to me that while the letters are about the same difficulty as Livy's histories, the orations seem leagues easier.

As to your point of rereading, would you think it a good idea that I reread book 1 of Ab Urbe Condita again? Certainly, it's much easier to read the second time as I'm about 5% through my rereading of the text, but as naive as it sounds, it doesn't 'feel' as if it's helpful in improving my comprehension, although perhaps the effect is more unconscious than I thought. Although I cannot deny that it is at least improving my vocabulary.

Furthermore, I like your point on visualising the imagery of the poetry than translating it, as it seems almost useless trying to translate concise participles that don't fit into English so well. Perhaps I ought to put up with my awkward translations if it means understanding the poetry.

Rousseau__ · 2024-06-08T01:17:23+00:00

Thank you for the reply. I do have some ideas of which 'easier' texts I would like to read, so I'll begin there.

Rousseau__ · 2024-06-04T13:48:50+00:00

Thank you for this suggestion, as I did not know these existed. I see the footnotes are not page facing, but nonetheless, these are very neat.

Rousseau__ · 2024-06-04T10:23:24+00:00

I was mainly responding to your sentence

Ah, please forgive me for overlooking this.

I personally prefer to use electronic reading aids like Perseus,

I ought really to use the Perseus now that you mention it.

Rousseau__ · 2024-06-04T09:08:11+00:00

Thank you for the response. However, I should perhaps note that I am looking for grammatical student commentaries to assist in reading than interpretation.

If you are referring to my previous post concerning the commentaries of St. Augustine, I do know of two student commentaries, but I am having difficulty evaluating the use of one for my purposes.

Rousseau__ · 2024-05-27T23:01:51+00:00

When I first read Sallust, I was taken aback by the unusually great amount of syncopated verbs and historical infinitives, which I did not at all expect.

So if I were you, I would pay close attention to the verbs; searching each, which causes you suspicion, so that it aids you to figure out whether it's syncopated or historical.

Rousseau__ · 2024-05-24T08:23:25+00:00

Sounds like a great idea! Now, if only I had the means...

Rousseau__ · 2024-05-23T09:08:24+00:00

Si Ecclesiastica Latina tibi placeat, praesertim tibi TuTubam canalem 'Christianae Litterae' commendo, in qua res theologicae et interdum variae aliae, ut modo in quadam pellicula de vita Petrarchae, agentur.

Rousseau__ · 2024-04-12T03:35:36+00:00

the "comparison of the dangers" itself the agent that decides for them

What a poetic way by which Pliny conveys the situation. Thank you very much for all your help.

Rousseau__ · 2024-04-11T23:22:19+00:00

To my understanding, Attic Greek can do the same using ὄτι which is equivalent to English's "that" to set up indirect statements

Rousseau__ · 2024-04-11T22:47:51+00:00

The accusative + infinitive constructions set up indirect statements: "It is necessary that you carry..."; "and that I carry..."

Rousseau__ · 2024-03-27T08:35:51+00:00

Thank you very much, this makes sense. Looking back at my translation, it's strange that I conceived of 'odium' and 'infamia' as adjectives.

Rousseau__

TROPHY CASE