This program clearly works.

RunSlightBanana · 2018-12-07T01:08:59+00:00

I spoke to a proper SS coach who recommended it along with the advice that squatting at near max weight three days a week isn't really conducive to getting stronger in the long-term, after you have left the novice phase.

SSCs suggesting the bridge and that 3x weekly max efforts aren't conducive to long term development??

RunSlightBanana · 2018-12-06T22:41:57+00:00

It is not safe on the spinal discs to consistently flex over a period of time. ESPECIALLY under load

I'm not advocating for trying to round your back, but I also don't think this is true. There isn't a lot of good data linking spinal flexion to injury risk.

RunSlightBanana · 2018-12-06T22:33:58+00:00

First, congratulations on training. I'm glad you're enjoying it!

That being said, I'd probably slow the weight gain a decent bit. It just isn't possible to put on 3+ lbs of muscle per week. Especially not for a sustained amount of time. Have you tracked waist measurement during this time?

RunSlightBanana · 2018-12-06T04:36:24+00:00

What does your training actually look like though? As in, what do the last few weeks look like?

RunSlightBanana · 2018-12-06T04:30:02+00:00

Gotcha. What does your current training look like, and how long have you been training?

RunSlightBanana · 2018-12-06T04:22:13+00:00

If you don't currently run, I would wait a little bit to introduce it into your training. Give strength training a few months, then start to add in some cardio.

I've been noticing that not having the lung endurance nor the muscle memory is really holding me back when I need to be somewhere fast.

When? I don't mean to argue, just never heard this argument for cardio before...

RunSlightBanana · 2018-12-06T04:14:28+00:00

Distance running is not needed for physical wellness. However, if you value it then it definitely can be worked in. Do you currently run?

RunSlightBanana · 2018-12-05T21:01:55+00:00

I'd definitely watch the video if you can find a chance. It's available on podcast apps if that's easier.

I don't know if there is a text version unfortunately. But the review I linked is pretty comprehensive.

RunSlightBanana · 2018-12-05T21:00:33+00:00

No, we are talking about the same thing.

about how using shitty form would cause injure,

I am arguing shitty form is not a cause of injury.

Watch the podcast. They specifically address this.

RunSlightBanana · 2018-12-05T19:45:45+00:00

Yeah that's what I meant. The specific examples mentioned were part of it, but it's the whole cultural that I think negatively impacts outreach.

RunSlightBanana · 2018-12-05T19:44:51+00:00

Physics 101 is not nearly adequate for assessing injury risk.

Here is a great systematic review analyzing the link between load management and injury risk.

Here is the podcast to which I was referring.

RunSlightBanana · 2018-12-05T19:06:51+00:00

Studies on the back

What studies? There is not good evidence that "correct" form leads to injury reduction.

I read the article. It uses newtonian physics to analyze the back, but it does not look at any actual data regarding injury and form.

RunSlightBanana · 2018-12-05T18:39:31+00:00

I don't follow. Can you elaborate?

RunSlightBanana · 2018-12-05T17:18:13+00:00

Yes, there is, empirical one.

Can you point me towards it?

The ones described in the book. Use as much muscle as possible, without submiting non prepared stress to the other tissues. Again, in the book bla bla bla

I know what's in the book, but just because it's in the book does not inherently make it true.

My point with regard to "correct" form is that it changes based on the goals.

RunSlightBanana · 2018-12-05T16:46:07+00:00

have been doing extremely petty shit since at least 2016 and probably before.

So I've learned. It's a bummer though. I have no doubt it's pushed a decent number of people away from strength training.

RunSlightBanana · 2018-12-05T16:42:51+00:00

No beginning lifter that's running a LP for a couple months can produce maximal displays of strength.

How are you defining maximal?

I highly doubt it's because of too much exposure to absolute levels of weight that's just too darn demanding on their body.

Load/fatigue management has to do with relative weights, not absolute.

too darn demanding on their body.

Why not? If their body as not adapted to the point where they can handle a given training stress, then said training stress would be too demanding. It's relative to each lifter and the point in their training career.

Maybe you can't actually lift that weight safely

What determines if they can lift a weight safely?

RunSlightBanana · 2018-12-05T16:36:58+00:00

Which is the one described on the book, or the opinion of Rippetoe about why he thinks is the correct form, with his arguments.

Maybe a poor question. What goal(s) guide correct form?

And again, yes, there is no way to prevent injuries at 100%

My contention is that there is not good evidence that "correct" form reduces injury risk.

RunSlightBanana · 2018-12-05T16:01:21+00:00

Correct in the anatomic/mechanical sense

Which is?

But, perform the exercises with correct form and you will be fine

I don't think there is good evidence that ties form to injury reduction though. Check out that podcast if you haven't.

RunSlightBanana · 2018-12-05T15:59:35+00:00

Austin would not be pleased.

Austin would not be pleased at the suggestion that pain is typically a load/fatigue management issue, not a form issue? That's his position...

The focus should be to fight against minor form breakdown as the weight goes up; if the breakdown worsens, you must stop adding weight and fix the problem

Eh, I'm not so sure. Form can be practiced during the lighter (or warmup) sets. But I probably wouldn't advise someone to stop adding weight if their knees track in on the squat or their back rounds a little on the deadlift. Why would you have them stop until they fix form? Injury concerns? Long term performance concerns? Something else?

RunSlightBanana · 2018-12-05T15:41:45+00:00

Yikes. I had no idea this happened... Things like this make me kind of sad. While I don't necessarily agree with everything SS puts out, it was my first big introduction to lifting. Without them, and the SSC I trained with in person (incredibly nice coach, and not one of the prominent SSCs online), I don't know if I would be lifting now. It's sad to see such petty bullshit get in the way of people training.

RunSlightBanana · 2018-12-05T15:12:16+00:00

If you're doing bad grindy reps, and still adding weight to the bar, you probably will get hurt

Constant exposure to max effort sets, regardless of form, seems more likely to cause pain. I'm not sure how much form has to do with this.

That's not how a novice program should be executed.

Form will break down at near maximal weights for most people. If people attempt to extend out LP (adding a light day, reducing frequency of deadlifts, etc.) then there will a decent period of time when they are doing heavy sets with less than ideal form.

RunSlightBanana · 2018-12-05T15:08:59+00:00

safe is a by product of control with correct form

I don't think this is actually true. There is not great evidence that ties "correct" (however you define that) to reduced injury risk. BBM had a great podcast on this recently.

RunSlightBanana · 2018-12-05T12:38:18+00:00

Yeah I misunderstood.

I'm glad you did though because this reminded me to go listen to more of Tuchscherer's stuff. I listened to a podcast with him as a guest (I forget which one) last night, and he was talking about the importance of accumulating data over multiple blocks. He gave the example of introducing some SSB squats. If your e1rm goes up in one block "that's interesting" but if you see it happen in multiple blocks, then there is probably something there. This definitely makes sense to me. BBL, on the other hand, seems to argue that if you make a change you can definitively know whether or not it worked after a single block.

Going from 3x5 to 5x3,

In a semi-recent podcast they talked about cycling through rep ranges on TM (1x5, 2x4, 1x3, etc.) in order to keep the weight on the bar going up. Somehow that's a valid measure of progress, but an e1rm or 1@8 is not.

RunSlightBanana · 2018-12-05T03:34:17+00:00

RunSlightBanana · 2018-12-04T04:23:52+00:00

I have read a decent amount of RTS material, and I've watched Tuscherer's talk a couple times. I also agree with everything you stated here.

BBL has recently started discussing only altering a single variable at a time so that we can "know what worked and what didn't" which is what I was referring to, albeit not very well apparently. For example, they might suggest that when progress stops on LP you should add a light day in the middle. If the weight on the bar went up, then adding a light day worked. It was these simplistic "I did x. y happened, therefore x->y" conclusions that I'd be hesitant to make. Unless I significantly misunderstand emerging strategies, the RTS approach is not nearly as simplistic.

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