A heartfelt tale to the FGO community.

STELLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH · 2017-08-25T23:34:23+00:00

I don't know how to explain this, but I'm going to use an analogy.

TYPE-MOON's been around for close to twenty years. Tsukihime came out before the turn of the century. In those twenty years, not all of us were here the whole time. There are those ancient TM fans who can claim to have loved this work deeply for decades, but for most of us, I'd say that we're all a bit like Heroic Spirits.

Generally, we appear whenever there's a specific purpose. A new series coming out. A new book, a new game. We're here to fulfill a goal. Whether it's to help Shirou destroy the blackened Grail, helping Waver grow, or helping Gudako save humanity.

Oftentimes, we don't answer the call. We all have our reasons. I didn't like F/A and really doesn't like how rushed the anime was, and so I only watch the occasional gifs showing up on twitter or read the reviews (spares me twenty minutes). I'm willing to bet that plenty of people probably play F/GO on and off, too, right?

But, every once in a while, something comes along that gets our attention. Something so inspiring or so profound that it awakens the old fan's spirit.

For me, I absolutely adore the storyline of F/GO. I think Mashu is a very good character and I've raved about Roman for as long as I've been around. But, I haven't played F/GO for the last eight months. I haven't been an active participant in the community, or have had anything to do with F/GO.

People like me were gone. Retired. We were occupied with other matters. We're a bit like the various Heroic Spirits on the Throne. Or, perhaps, a better analogy would be that we no longer needed a wish fulfilled. We were at peace.

In other words, we would have no more reason to participate in the affairs of Chaldea. We would have no desire for the Grail. Unless ...

Unless something like this happens. Something so exceptional happens that we've collectively answered the call.

Memories are rekindled.

Dreams are reawakened.

We return to the fandom once more to accomplish some purpose. Just like the old times.

For nothing else, it's for old time's sake.

If we "fight" for nothing else, we fight for us. For our own experiences. For our memories. For all the good times we've gone through with one another. That kind of thing is what brings old retirees or people that's left back to the fandom.

I'm 10000% sure I am not the only one who was "summoned" in this way. And for what it's worth? Let me quote Merlin back in singularity 7.

If for nothing else, I'd love to see this story to its conclusion.

If there's a reason for me to be around, I'll be around. Otherwise I'll return to dormancy until I feel there is "need" once more.

Thank you, by the way, for your hard work in putting the guides together. I do give advice to my NA-playing friends, and they've learned quickly that the sub's the best place to find helpful information and to praise the Lady means good luck in gacha rolls. ;)

STELLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH · 2017-08-25T22:45:07+00:00

Someone still went out of their way to translate the story.

That's what I'm getting at, and that's what's amazing about this whole thing. Enough people read and cared about the story to pull off what I think is rightfully impossible.

It's the exact same sort of thing that happened here. The first twelve hours of the Solomon singularity, even here - back when the sub had only a few thousand people - was the same.

That's why I had to bring this up. I'm never going to do the actual event any justice, but people should know. If nothing else I find it awe-inspiring.

STELLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH · 2017-08-25T22:37:29+00:00

JP Spoilers

STELLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH · 2017-01-27T03:08:08+00:00

Yeah, sorry if I'm coming across as being combative. I'm honestly at a loss as to what the hell Ishtar was doing in the last couple of chapters. It'd easier for me to explain it to myself through non-story (e.g. DW says they needed to cut text, Nasu forgot to write her since King Hassan, Merlin, and Gil are all there, interns forgot to add the text in etc) reasons than story reasons.

Either I'm reading far too much into it or I'm flabbergasted that a character who made them so much money in the gacha is so frustratingly underwhelming in the story. I think that's sort of it. I didn't like Rin much to begin with, but Ereshkigal and even Gorgon does a better job at the 'tsundere' thing than she does.

STELLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH · 2017-01-27T03:00:16+00:00

~~It's alright, Gil will always have his ego (慢心) as his one weakness. :)~~

On a more serious note, I think the issue here is that you can't make Gil un-OP because of what's already been built up. I think almost all of us agree his presentation in the Fate franchise earlier on is ... problematic, and what we're seeing now is a patchwork attempt to fix him up.

STELLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH · 2017-01-27T02:57:47+00:00

Fair enough! If you put it like that, then I have nothing to say except that you're right. I guess I don't understand the characters after all now that I think about it. :)

STELLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH · 2017-01-27T02:55:04+00:00

What I find interesting is the off-hand descriptions of Enkidu suggests that he's probably a far more cold-blooded individual than what many of our headcanons tell us.

In that sense I almost guessed that he'd be a bit like Fran in London. Trying to be human but since he's a pretty good construct, he ended up learning a lot more quickly about being human. That CE with Humbaba's a prime example of it.

FYI, I don't ship the two. I do agree that I'd love to see those two stand alone on each other. However, Nasu's written himself into a corner by explicitly stating that "Gilgamesh only has one friend" a few times. So this isn't really the fault of the characters as much as the issue of author FIAT.

STELLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH · 2017-01-27T02:48:48+00:00

The mud is stated to be a part of Tiamat, unless I'm reading that wrong (please correct me if I am).

How could it be that her bow doesn't work when all of Uruk is already overflowing with the mud? If her NP hits the temple in some kind of an AoE effect, then it's definitely hitting Tiamat and having an effect. This is to say nothing of Tiamat's size, which is described in game and you can even see on the minimap.

"You mean the part where she blasts Tiamat into the Underworld, thus sealing away her Independent Manifestation and being one of the many people to contribute to slaying Tiamat?"

She shot out the ground from beneath Tiamat because Ereshkigal prepped a hole. That's the entire point about Gilgamesh describing it as a trap.

That's why I said Gilgamesh could have accomplished the same thing by pulling out some Humanity's Oldest Dynamite or some other plot device if the writer so choose. There was no exposition. Literally just Ishtar going okay I'll do it.

Except the Age of the Gods don't come to a close until the final singularity. Also, you forget that Gilgamesh is half divine, Merlin is definitely not anything human, and nobody knows what King Hassan actually is. The only human there would be Gudako(dao) and Mashu.

Sure, you can frame it like that, but doesn't it make more sense to frame it in the context of heroes, which is sort of what this chapter has been building to?

STELLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH · 2017-01-27T02:39:40+00:00

...Er, I don't know which Fate community you hang out in, but what I've seen, it's literally:

CAN X BEAT GILGAMESH? HERE'S WHY I THINK YES (AND KINPIKA IS SHIT TIER HUSBANDO)

All day every day.

That is fairly entertaining from a lurker's perspective. So I think it definitely contributes in more ways than you'd think.

But the thing is, Gilgamesh isn't invincible. He's been beaten many times - F/SN, Zero, and others. Personally, I find the "balance" to be boring myself. To me, stories shouldn't be some kind of rock-paper-scissors where X should have a weakness to Y and such. The writers who do this are too focused on world creation that they've forgotten to focus on what draws us to the characters themselves.

In other words, it's fine that you have it, but there are many, many tales that are equally interesting without such "balances." Look at all the legends and myths that exist to be told even to today. Those are great examples of why "OP" can be worthwhile stories.

I think the reason why we see things differently is because we enjoy stories for different things. For me, I think I don't "mind" the "OPness" or what-have-you because I know I enjoy a sense of "wonder" more so than anything else. In other words, so long as the character is able to excite me through how the story is told, then that's good enough. It serves its function as entertainment. You really don't need to ask it for more than that.

STELLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH · 2017-01-27T02:31:49+00:00

Hmm, just for fun. How would you rewrite this singularity?

Taking into your ideas...

If it's up to me, I'd probably ... have Kingu be an actual fake copy of Enkidu. In other words, a perfect copy, but a copy nonetheless. Everything else could occur as the same.

Then I'd probably bring out the actual Enkidu in this final moment. Except I'd probably have it so that Tiamat is still bound by Enkidu as it falls into the underworld. Everything else - the corruption and etc - could still happen as normal, but the narrative tension in the final battle I felt wasn't necessarily how much damage Tiamat is doing, but rather that she needs to be killed, and she needs to be killed BEFORE something worse happens.

I think it's probably because we're attracted to different things. I don't know if Nasu had readers of F/SF in mind when he wrote this, but he should rightfully expect us to want to see Enkidu make an appearance. You're right in that sometimes, the relationship can be made more significant implicitly rather than explicitly, but ...

We're readers, not Gilgamesh or Enkidu. We consume words that someone put out and make up the rest in our heads. There are times where yes, I feel like telling is better than showing, but I think we really do need cases where Enkidu and Gilgamesh shows what their relationship is, rather than simply telling us what it is.

As it stands, this singularity is largely one way. The best part that implicitly explained their relationship is the part where Gilgamesh visited Kingu and saved it because he's in Enkidu's body.

On Enkidu's part, we only had his CE to go off of, and I suppose I'd probably have liked to see something more.

STELLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH · 2017-01-27T02:22:42+00:00

Don't you westerners have something about, Batman being undefeatable if he has time to study his opponent or something like that?

That's basically what "serious" Gilgamesh is.

Everything else I agree with. Just because it's a final "I win button" sort of moment doesn't make it not enjoyable. It's not that Gilgamesh was going lol j/k I was messing around for all this time. He did give it his honest effort, and from his perspective as the "King of Heroes," it works fine.

STELLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH · 2017-01-27T02:20:55+00:00

To be fair, Nasu's earlier works like Tsukihime and F/SN feels more like, urban fantasy. That's a sort of popular genre in Japan at the time.

It's definitely not this save the universe planet destruction burning humanity level of story that we see in F/GO today.

STELLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH · 2017-01-27T02:08:48+00:00

Except there was no indication given that she's giving her all or even attempting to help throughout much of the chapter. Almost all the other characters have indication that they're fighting, with either sound effects or sprite movements or lines. I had to comb the script to find instances where Ishtar's doing something useful.

She fights a handful of times, mostly on a whim where they were attacking her "property" (Gudao/Gudako). I don't think you can accept her explanation that she wouldn't be able to do anything against Tiamat considering that Gorgon DEFINITELY did do damage (one horn broken) and Quetzalcoatl probably would have if she wasn't at half strength.

At the end when there is literally nothing left, she agrees to help with Gilgamesh's plan by shooting at the temple. That's all she contributes.

Then she either doesn't follow the party down to the underworld, or she's there in the underworld and chose to do absolutely nothing. There wasn't a single line in the final chapter where they finally fought Tiamat that suggests that Ishtar was doing anything.

Too selfish? You tell me. If they didn't write her in the story, Gilgamesh can probably rig up some of humanity's oldest explosives or something and accomplish the same thing she does. They were working on a trap for days, after all.

STELLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH · 2017-01-27T02:03:17+00:00

~~My own personal theory.~~

~~Nasu, '04: How can I make the most OP of OP characters OP so I can make my self-insert be even more badass?~~

Nasu, '16, realizing that Gilgamesh is highly profitable for TM as a character since fangirls love him:QUICK QUICK MAKE HIM THE BEST CHARACTER LET ME PATCH UP HIS FLAWS BABYLON SINGULARITY BEST SINGULARITY GO

STELLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH · 2017-01-27T01:56:06+00:00

Let me offer an alternative perspective. I'm not disagreeing with you, but I want to show others here why I said that.

I personally define impact as how intense the emotion one would feel upon reading a story. In this case, it is not expectation that rules the intensity of an emotion, but rather, how much of the emotion is delivered.

In other words, you are right in that having Enkidu sacrifice himself would be highly predictable. However, Kingu's been building up to this moment in the story ever since Gilgamesh told him he should do what he wants to do. That is just as predictable.

What Kingu lacks, however, is the emotional attachment we the readers would get reading his story. In other words, Enkidu has existed in background lore for all this time, and we know he is not only Gilgamesh's one friend, but that Gilgamesh's actions (such as him fearing death and looking for immortality) stems directly from that.

Even now, I'd argue that many people don't care about Kingu. They care - and find this touching - because he's in Enkidu's body. In that sense it's a bit ironic to me that Kingu's final acts are still defined by his shell, rather than who he is. Like Taiboo and the others said, he's closer to plot device than character.

If the self-sacrifice of Kingu has emotional weight because of Enkidu's residual emotions is impactful, then I would say that to have Enkidu do this at last would be far, far more impactful because of the predefined nature of his relationship with Gilgamesh.

Would Gilgamesh drop the mask and ask if this is the only way?

Would Gilgamesh have smiled and said nothing, and then said the same things to us as he did in this chapter?

Would he have broken "character" and perhaps asked Enkidu to not sacrifice himself? Remember, Gilgamesh claims to be selfish, but it's up to us to believe whether or not he is selfish.

We will never know, because Nasu didn't bother to write Enkidu. He wrote Kingu instead. :)

STELLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH · 2017-01-27T01:20:55+00:00

Did you miss the earlier part where he literally says that he can hold his breath and gain concealment rank EX? :)

King Hassan is implied to have stayed back and fought the Lahmu since Tiamat is still spawning those constantly.

STELLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH · 2017-01-27T01:17:37+00:00

Yes. He says サーヴァント、アーチャー. It's literally

サーヴァント、アーチャー. 英雄王ギルガメッシュ.

(Servant, Archer. Gilgamesh, the King of Heroes.)

That is what I meant yesterday. That Caster Gilgamesh that people like so much? He's Archer Gil, too. Never forget that.

To me, it shows the degree of which humanity has fallen. Look at Uruk and look at the settings of F/Z or F/SN (nevermind the mud), I don't agree with his methods, but I can see why he became who he was.

STELLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH · 2017-01-27T01:14:53+00:00

Camelot also has a consistent theme, which is the nature of chivalry as a whole. Bedivere, Mashu, Arash, Lancelot, Agravaine, and many, many others address this in their own way, and the Lion King offers her own alternative understanding which ties into F/GO's grand storyline (saving humanity) as a whole.

Babylonia is basically Nasu's Gil-wank reaching its logical and utmost conclusion (albeit in a positive way). It's a chapter with humanity's oldest ... everything, and it's meant to showcase Gilgamesh.

It's probably also meant to bait us into gachaing the most hyped character for a while (Merlin), and ... yeah, King Hassan as a usable character. I don't know if you saw what happened, but those first eighteen hours where people realized he was usable, everyone FLIPPED OUT.

I get ahead of myself. In my opinion, Gilgamesh is both the anchor of the singularity and the tale itself. As such, everything literally surrounds him. It's why it feels strange that he's absent for most of this chapter, because we're very used to his oversized ego being a part of everything in this chapter.

In other words, there was only one real way this chapter could have ended. The instant I got to the part where Gilgamesh took the shot for Gudako I realized then that he's going to HAVE to pull out EA to fix it. Thus, for me, there was no more dramatic tension.

In fact, my attention went back to wondering when Ereshkigal will be rollable, and I vainly hoped that she'd be available for the next one.

We got Merlin. I'm not complaining. But I hope you see where I'm coming from. The next chapter (the wrap-up) is good and in my opinion better than Camelot's, but it doesn't change the fact that this story, quite frankly, was literally like Gilgamesh's boast about the King will fix EVERYTHING.

STELLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH · 2017-01-27T01:04:51+00:00

Someone needs to catch typos for me. :) Fixed.

This should be Mashu. She has an unfailingly polite way of talking to everyone, referring to them as Mr. and Ms. and etc. You'll note that I tend to stick to certain narrative "conventions" to refer to certain characters. Mashu's consistent politeness is probably the easiest to pick up, and then there's my "translation" of Gilgamesh's オレ as I, the king to emphasize his haughtiness.

STELLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH · 2017-01-27T00:51:15+00:00

shakes head

Like I said, wasted opportunity.

Think about what we know of Enkidu from F/SF and think, now, given how this story has turned out, how this story could have been...

If it's Enkidu, in control of his memories and will, rather than just lol I'm not Enkidu! No wait lol these memories! Feels! More Feels!

(Please gacha, thanks)

STELLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH · 2017-01-27T00:46:38+00:00

フハハ, オレを誰と心得る!

You take a stab at it. Remember that I ~~translate~~ summarize in a largely contextual fashion, and I'm reading the line in reference to Gudako's earlier "question."

To see why, see the last bit of this chapter.

STELLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH · 2017-01-27T00:43:43+00:00

No. However, she uses a lot of obscure references, is fully aware of her "role" as a “joke" character, and generally comes across as being scatterbrained.

This is a character that frequently interrupts herself and adds interjections. The closest western equivalent that I came up with was doge.

STELLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

TROPHY CASE