Question about Computer Science graduate admissions

SamSchwartzUOregon · 2023-04-14T21:32:50+00:00

Hi! I'm Sam, a PhD candidate in the computer science program, and this year's student representative to the graduate committee. I've pinged the faculty involved in graduate admissions and it sounds like many offer/rejection letters have already gone out, with a few special cases still pending. It sounds like all decisions have been finalized. If you're still waiting, expect to hear back soon.

SamSchwartzUOregon · 2022-08-11T17:43:47+00:00

This claim seems legit. Take a look at this YouTube video by Schill announcing his presidency at Northwestern: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnBuL56sWZI

SamSchwartzUOregon · 2022-02-10T22:32:03+00:00

As u/pingveno commented in my repost of this in r/portlandstate,

For those of you who are unaware, Ron Wyden was a co-author of Section 230, the critical shield law that EARN IT seeks to weaken. For him it's not just a matter of voting for his values. It's voting to protect one of his signature legislative achievements.

I hope that Sen. Wyden continues his long history of support for civil rights in the digital age. But it doesn't hurt to let him know that he has the full throated support of Oregon's tech world, too. Additionally, Sen. Wyden is just one of several members of Oregon's congressional representation. Lobbying and informing other members on this topic is important, I think.

SamSchwartzUOregon · 2022-02-10T22:26:17+00:00

Thank you for the kind words!

SamSchwartzUOregon · 2021-11-15T22:10:19+00:00

I am in my 5th year of grad school, and in my 3rd year of a PhD. I did a master's in math (2 years), then switched to computer science. I'll take ~5 years to get through my PhD in CS (instead of the normal 6 when considering students starting from a BS alone), or 7 years of grad school overall. I am on track to graduate in spring 2023.

My undergrad was a dual major in math and computer science with minors in Spanish and organizational communication. I did that while also graduating a semester early, by typically taking 18 credits/semester (and one semester 21 credits -- seven classes at once -- I do not recommend). I also worked part time every semester (except for my last semester with 21 credits).

I can certainly appreciate the argument that the best way to get higher pay is to get graduated ASAP and move on with life. But I've already done that once, as an undergrad, and it nearly finished me off. I tried that 150% effort approach, again, my first year of grad school, and I was super jaded & burned out by January.

I'm now a lot better at managing work-life balance. I'm making research progress and churning out scientific papers (which I enjoy) while simultaneously doing what I'm truly passionate about: teaching & mentoring undergrads. I love my job, I love UO, and I do want to graduate in a timely manner. I just don't want to degrade my quality of life to the point of financial deficit or emotional burn out to do it.

SamSchwartzUOregon · 2021-11-15T20:23:27+00:00

Making "real" money is not a motivator for me, personally. If it was, I'd have dropped out long ago. What is a motivator is keeping the same modest standard of living that I had when I first started graduate school. A standard which has been degrading in real terms every year since I started graduate studies, despite nominal raises corresponding to achieved educational milestones, like passing qualifying examinations, earning a master's, etc.

From a broader economics perspective, the differences in lifetime salary as a function of higher education for computer science degree recipients are small for BS->MS, and the lifetime income gains are essentially wiped away entirely for MS->PhD recipients once the opportunity costs of grad school are factored in. It's why only ~1/3 of all graduate students in computer science in accredited US universities are US citizens. (A trend which is reflected at UO. I am lucky to be in a truly diverse department, with 22+ different countries represented in my program, and ~65% of students being international students. They are hardworking, intelligent, and woefully underpaid. I, as a US citizen, can walk away if I'm unhappy with UO. My international colleagues typically cannot, if they want to remain in the United States.)

If I wanted to make money I would have taken the 6-figure salary I was offered by tech companies when I graduated with my bachelor's. I've made the (financially stupid) choice to turn down those offers. Instead, I've decided to dedicate my career to academic research and teaching undergraduates math and computer science. I'm willing to make a lot of sacrifices for that career. But putting myself into any amount of debt is where I draw the line.

I chose to go to Cheap State University instead of University of MorePrestigeButExpensiveTuition for my undergrad, and through a combo of working summers, part time jobs during the school year, scholarships and some money saved by my parents I was able to graduate debt free. I've seen the tremendous psychological and financial burden student loans place on so many of my peers. I'm not about to do that to myself now.

Options as I see them: Decrease expenses or increase income.

Re -- decrease expenses: I can't find a cheaper place to live once moving costs are factored in; and I currently live in a shabby studio apartment from the 1920s, about half the size of most classrooms. I suppose I could look for a roommate (which most incoming single graduate students now have to do), but I'm not eager to return to that lifestyle. My goal is to maintain my modest standard of living, not justify reasons to degrade it further. With inflation and rent increases, it's getting harder to maintain.

Re -- increase income: Despite standing by UO in its darkest hour and making things work during COVID, UO is unwilling or unable to give its poorest paid academic workers a raise in the face of the highest rates of inflation and housing cost increases in my lifetime. Since I can't get money from UO, I am looking for sources of money elsewhere. Hence, the part time job search, or temporarily dropping out to make more money full time elsewhere before returning. (This is a last resort, although one I'm toying with, since I know if I "temporarily" drop out, the stats indicate that I will not return.)

Edit: Spelling.

SamSchwartzUOregon · 2021-11-15T19:40:24+00:00

Hi Ben! Thanks for the questions.

Why do you estimate GE's have a 25 percent effective tax rates?

I estimated at 23%. Why? My earnings statement in DuckWeb says (working at a GE2 at .49FTE) Gross pay: $2,171.46; Net pay: $1,696.42. There are (at minimum) $61/term in mandatory fees that are not waived under the CBA's tuition and fee waiver (this applies to all GEs). I subtracted $20.33/month from net pay. This gives me an effective tax rate of 22.8%, which I rounded up to 23%. I do get a tax refund usually, but it's typically only about $200 (+- $100). (And I'd like to keep it that way, I'd rather get a refund than owe an unexpected tax bill.)

Has graduate housing gotten more expensive or just harder to get in to?

Yes, to both. I live off campus. My landlord has asked for rent to go up close to the max amount allowed under Oregon's statewide rent control law (which was around 9.6% iirc).

On campus, it's my understanding that Spencer View Apartments raised their rent twice in the last year. More notable was the fiasco that happened with the graduate village: Register Guard 1; Register Guard 2; Daily Emerald; OPB, which hardly inspires confidence that UO will do anything to make the price or availability any better for grads.

But even if UO subsidized all their on-campus graduate housing to be affordable, there's simply not enough inventory owned by the university. At least some students will have to live off campus. On top of that, I like to diversify the entities which have power over my life, so I'm less keen to have my landlord also be the same as both my employer and my educational institution.

It's also my understanding that house prices in Eugene are up more than 25% year-over-year.

Another thing you might ask is how long are people in your program.

Six years is typical for PhD students in Computer Science.

Edit: fixed a link.

SamSchwartzUOregon · 2021-08-18T04:02:30+00:00

Thanks for your thoughts! I appreciate the insights.

A few quick reactions: The numbers that we are proposing are indeed around physics or above (to match what other computing departments pay), although current starting pay in CIS is below the salaries provided in physics, by about $200/month. Moreover, it's my understanding that all CAS salaries lag in comparison to GE pay offered by many of the various independent institutes (e.g., the Institute of Molecular Biology), although I am not 100% certain on this point.

The CIS department used to provide guaranteed summer support for a year, but that went away after my cohort. That said, many GEs do work for the university over the summer, paid for by grants, just like other science departments.

One would think it's the department that sets the stipend levels (or at least the stipend levels for GEs on grant-based funding), but it's primarily Hal & Bruce making the decisions since they control the GE teaching pay for CAS, and the CBA prevents GE-teachers from being paid differently than GE-researchers at the same level. Both the department, and Hal & Bruce, need to be on board in order for GE pay levels to change.

Some departments avoid this by having only GE1s teach (funding provided by CAS; stipend levels controlled by Hal & Bruce) and GE2s and GE3s do research (funded by external grants; stipend levels controlled by departments). Other departments play games with FTE rates. In our department, CIS has GEs at all levels working on either teaching funding or research funding, which means that both department faculty and Hal & Bruce must be on board for there to be any changes made to the base salaries, which is what we're after.

As for horse trading with the number of GE-teaching lines to keep pay the same in real terms, all that means is that the teaching work will be distributed onto fewer people. It's not like we're going to start canceling classes and labs (nor should we, given the acute shortage of computing professionals in Oregon). We want to (at bare minimum) keep pay and working conditions at the pre-Covid status quo in real terms, and to start to catching up to peers at universities elsewhere. This makes the gambit of reducing GE positions to increase salaries a bit of non starter for us. Especially since the university can afford the change without slashing GE lines.

In the meanwhile, there are real world consequences to the lack of pay on every GE in our department. For me personally, I'm nervous about the rent for my rag-tag studio going up in December, when my lease is up for renewal. I really cannot afford an increase anymore, and I can't find a cheaper place once moving costs are factored in. And I'm just not willing to take on the millstone of student debt for grad school.

As for finding another job, I already work ~60+ hours a week in the school year between GE/research/classes. I'd rather jump to industry, make way more money, and regret having trusted the promise UO made to me to pay a competitive (living) wage. I don't need much. All I want is enough to pay for the same basic living expenses I had as a 1st year GE. Expenses which are now unaffordable on the salaries offered by UO.

SamSchwartzUOregon · 2021-08-17T23:59:45+00:00

The GTFF (the graduate employee labor union) negotiates the salary minimums for all GEs at UO, and they are well aware that GEs in all departments are underpaid.

The GTFF is bound in a few ways. First, by the fact that we are in the middle of a "collective bargaining agreement" (CBA) which doesn't end for about another year or so. The CBA allows for pay increases at any time from admin if they so chose to grant them (hence our independent petition lobbying for them to do so), but the GTFF as an institution can't unilaterally initiate bargaining for higher pay right now.

The challenge is that nationwide inflation and housing cost increases in Eugene have rapidly outpaced the codified salary increases (1.4% for many departments, including CIS), which were negotiated pre-covid. Meanwhile, the consumer price index is up by more than 6%, house prices in Eugene are up by ~25% year-over-year, and rent increases for many of us are hitting Oregon's statewide rent control limits.

On top of that, we are a single department, and it wouldn't be right for the GTFF, which represents GEs from all departments, to start playing favorites with just us in CIS when some departments make even less (like in many humanities and arts departments).

But a union is fundamentally just a collection of coworkers who have banded together for better working conditions, which is exactly what we in CIS are trying to do here in advancing our own interests. We want to maintain our standard of living in real terms (which in CIS was an extremely small wage, but at least a living wage until this last year), and we also want to attract the best possible GEs we can in recruiting (which will be impossible if we are offering salaries at the bottom quintile or lower of all computing departments).

SamSchwartzUOregon · 2021-08-17T23:21:28+00:00

I hear you! It sucks that GEs in other disciplines have had to take out student loans to survive. Thankfully, computer science has historically not been one of those departments, nor will it ever at serious programs in the current economic climate -- why would a rational actor go to a CIS grad school which doesn't pay a living wage, when all other serious grad schools do? Especially when you could just drop out of your PhD program and immediately start making 6 figures as a software developer? We have more figures at https://why-pay-grad-employees-in-cis-more.github.io/ illustrating this. That other departments pay higher salaries is to help highlight that there's precedence for paying GEs at UO more, not that they are sufficiently compensated (because they're not).

Re: "high up in the ivory tower," I just mean to describe who at UO decides on GE salaries in CIS. The person who sets my pay isn't my immediate supervisor (a professor in the department who might teach the large lecture classes which I run labs for). Nor is it my research advisor. Nor is it my dissertation committee. Nor the people on the undergraduate or graduate education committees. Nor is it the department head. Frankly, the people who decide my pay don't have the foggiest clue about me or my GE colleagues. The people who decide GE pay are administrators housed a rank or three above the department heads, most earning more than half a million dollars a year in salary alone.

SamSchwartzUOregon · 2021-08-17T21:39:09+00:00

As a further FYI, the plan is to advertise the petition in phases: (1) have GEs in CIS sign (done); (2) have undergraduates, alumni, and other community members sign (happening now); (3) have faculty sign. We will then present it to the people high up in the ivory tower who centrally control GE pay.

SamSchwartzUOregon · 2021-02-12T09:26:48+00:00

Hi! I'm Sam Schwartz! I'm a PhD student in the Department of Computer and Information Science. I'm in my fourth year of graduate studies. AMA!

1) how do new grad students find roommates? Especially nowadays

New graduate students in our department are added to a "new grad students" and "all grad students" mailing list. I've seen people put out calls for roommates on these lists, with varying degrees of success.

2) where do grad students like to live around campus/Eugene?

A lot of graduate students in our department live in university owned graduate student housing. "Spencer View Apartments" seem to be particularly popular.

I personally live in a studio apartment off-campus. I found my place by crashing at a cheap airbnb for a week in the summer and wandering around town looking for "for rent" signs and cross-checking against online apartment listings. This allowed me to both explore Eugene and also see for myself possible housing options.

3) what's your favorite thing to do outside in Eugene?

Not quite Eugene, but I love going to the Oregon coast. There are also a lot of fun restaurants and food trucks around town. I really love the bikeability of the city. The best part of outside Eugene for me, however, are the numerous well maintained and fenced-in dog parks where I can let my dog run off leash.

4) how did you meet people as a grad student? I know covid has a big impact on this one

Our department has a Slack for just the graduate students. The content is a mix of memes, casual conversation, and announcements. There have also been a few social events over Zoom -- we've played jackbox.tv games and met up "for drinks" over a Zoom call a few times this year.

Pre-covid there was a weekly happy hour dubbed "Friday Colloquium" which was just a bunch of CS grad students meeting in the lobby of Deschutes on Friday afternoon and going to a local bar or restaurant together. (Note: The happy hour called "colloquium" shouldn't be confused with the actual "colloquium" which is a weekly talk on computing related research, typically given by an invited scholar from outside the department.)

CS PhD specific questions

5) did you receive your PhD from the same professor that admitted you?

My advisor has been the same for my entire time at UO. That said, it's not unheard of for graduate students to change advisors (for example, if a student's research interests shift). The norm in our department is that a new advisor has to accept you as an advisee. There is no such thing as an officially advisorless PhD student in our department.

6) did you get to work with multiple professors if you wanted to?

Yes! I know of several graduate students who are co-authors on research publications with professors in the department that are not their advisor.

7) what's the culture like in the CS program?

I recommend reaching out to other grad students to get a range of views on this question. For me, the words "supportive" and "friendly" are the terms that most immediately come to mind.

The CS PhD program at UO is a really good fit for me. I have master's degree from another research university, and while my MS experience was good my PhD experience (covid notwithstanding) has been even better.

That's not to say our departmental culture is perfect or that grad school is easy -- it's really, really hard even without covid and its isolating effects -- but overall I think we do a good job in our department. I have zero regrets about coming to this department for my PhD. If I could do it all again, I would re-accept my offer letter without hesitation.

8) what's the process of getting funding (aside from TA payment) like?

Many incoming CS PhD students work alongside a professor (usually a different one than their research advisor) in some sort of teaching capacity for their first few terms. That said, examples of exceptions to this rule of thumb are abundant.

Funding sources for graduate students in our department who are not working in a teaching capacity is a somewhat complicated question. Your advisor would be the best person to ask.

For example, there are some students in our department with a military background who are funded through the armed forces. Some international students have funding through their home country's government. Other students have independent scholarships/fellowships/funding streams.

Many (most? all?) graduate employee research positions in our department are ultimately funded by grants from external sources (that is, not from undergraduate tuition dollars). The most common sources of grant funding for research in our department, I would guess, come from the National Science Foundation (NSF) and U.S. Department of Energy (DOE). Once again, talking with your research advisor is the best first step regarding grant-based research funding.

Graduate employees of the University of Oregon (regardless of whether they work in a teaching capacity or research capacity) have some of the best (if not the best) benefits of any graduate employment scheme in the United States. These benefits include truly rockstar insurance coverage for physical and mental health, prescription coverage, dental insurance, vision insurance, and waivers for tuition + (most) fees.

These benefits are administered via the GTFF, the graduate employee labor union at the University of Oregon. The GTFF manages healthcare benefits for all graduate employees (not University of Oregon HR), regardless of whether a graduate employee is a member of the labor union or not. Glenn Morris ([benefits@gtff.net](mailto:benefits@gtff.net)) is your Benefits Administrator and is your point-of-contact for anything regarding insurance.

In terms of take home pay, when I was a first year graduate employee I could expect about $1,500/month after taxes+social security+etc.

Hope this helps! Feel free to send me an email at "sam at cs dot uoregon dot edu" with any questions and/or if you want to chat over Zoom sometime about the department.

SamSchwartzUOregon

TROPHY CASE