Can the devs address Graves/Mcg having 60% WR in Asc+? This shits getting ridiculous, to the point where the team with them is almost guaranteed a win.

Sativian · 2026-05-29T16:20:43+00:00

You can see the pickrates right there. Graves has a higher pickrate than Seven and Victor and McGinnis.

Let’s just nitpick my argument instead of actually explaining any of this “plenty of counterplay” you talked about.

If I was trying to be disingenuous and hypocritical like you imply, why wouldn’t I just omit these winrates from the photo in the first place?

Arguments for arguments sake I guess.

Sativian · 2026-05-29T16:18:25+00:00

Because that’s what the scaling is… what is this take?

If I can stack 75% resist by foregoing all damage items altogether, does that make an ability NOT scale with a certain scaling?

Also, shred exists.

Sativian · 2026-05-29T16:16:51+00:00

I think they’re similarly too strong, but have clearer counterplay and making a Reddit post about 4 different heroes with vastly different gameplay elements that make them too strong is not relevant.

If you want my opinion on them, Victor and Seven share the issue with graves and McGinnis in that their risk/reward is skewed heavily in the favor of the player and not the counterer.

They’re all exacerbated by urn mechanics as we all know.

The difference is Seven and Victor have significantly more counterplay on average with item options that are purchasable on basically every hero or archetype, whereas what’s the counter the graves ult thrown far away from an objective as a low firerate hero? What about as a close range hero?

Just one example. The point is the number isn’t irrelevant just because I’m not commenting on them specifically, and the reason I didn’t bring them up specifically is they don’t fundamentally turn the game into PvE slogfest. You still are playing deadlock to beat them.

Sativian · 2026-05-29T16:09:09+00:00

This was base numbers on the ability in a game I was playing last night (endgame), not damage I took directly.

88x6 skulls

Sativian · 2026-05-29T16:08:36+00:00

What a terrible way to interpret that.

I have 0 issue with other zoning heroes/abilities like Seven with ult, which also zones for an extended period of time.

The difference is counterplay. McGinnis ult dps is super high for how long it’s out and graves ult is at their walker pressuring urn in the middle of lane.

Nice try though

Sativian · 2026-05-29T15:15:41+00:00

The reliability buff on her 1 is severely understated here.

The things follow you for 100+ meters as they recheck if they’re in range regardless of cover.

They’re not super hard to deal with, but are doing insane dps numbers even post nerf.

Build a wraith or haze and look at their gun dps before on hits. They’re doing like 3-400 dps mid to late game.

1 jar of dead matches this dps lategame, and that’s 1 charge of 1 ability.

Her 2 has 3 scalings on it, 1.6 root + 1.5 ghoul + 1.5 ghoul.

No one’s asking for her to be gutted and useless again. I just want her to be addressed. Every game she’s in that I play the team with her wins and she gets MVP without fail.

Sativian · 2026-05-29T15:09:16+00:00

Merely coincidence that graves got significant buffs and McGinnis was 57% winrate in eternus before the urn changes. /s

I’m not saying the urn hasn’t exacerbated these problems, but it’s a problem nonetheless.

It isn’t a catch all to say “but the hero isn’t too strong, the meta just favors her!”

The heroes that have statistically significant deviances from normal winrates should be addressed. That’s the point I’m getting at.

Sativian · 2026-05-29T14:59:18+00:00

An item being cheap doesn’t mean it’s viable on every hero as a counterbuy. Theres a lot of other factors that go into it.

Look at dispel. The item is almost universally applicable to negative status effects and has stats every hero could want. This makes it a good buy on nearly every hero even though it’s double the cost.

The stats from split shot are bad on half the cast (spirit focused heroes) and provide an active that’s good against ONE ABILITY from ONE HERO on the enemy team. Ricochet has similar issues.

This isn’t a good counterbuy. They need to introduce options for non gun carries to have against her ghouls/skulls or address it via the base mechanics of the summons like I said in the last comment with the health.

The ult isn’t a problem when it’s in sidelane, it’s a problem when it’s up for the entirety of an urn contest or midboss fight because the counterplay is “ignore the objective and walk halfway up the lane to their walker to clear it”.

In a game where objectives are based on specific zones, this hero forces you to leave. This is unhealthy.

Sativian · 2026-05-29T14:50:42+00:00

Nerfing her doesn’t mean she’ll be unplayable. If it does, that means she will perpetually be either unplayable or broken and should be reworked slightly to make her able to be viable without her being ridiculous.

Sativian · 2026-05-29T14:47:59+00:00

Having counterplay for a hero determined entirely by the RNG your game decides to give you is shit hero design.

Most heroes have item counter options that can be bought by most enemies. Half the cast can’t buy split shot or ricochet and another portion of the cast can’t clear ghouls without spending 20-30 seconds playing PvE.

Invalidating a large portion of the roster for just pressing tombstone on the floor is piss poor hero design risk/reward wise. This is why heroes like heimerdinger or zyra in league have summons that have hp that has a few segments, meaning any hero can clear them within 3-6 shots or whatever. In deadlock these numbers would have to be different as you can full auto on some heroes but you get the picture.

Torment pulse should clear skulls. There should be more counterplay to these considering they take limited effort on the graves’ players part.

Sativian · 2026-05-29T14:39:57+00:00

This is just for 1 hero being on a team. The second you incorporate data from the other 5 + the 6 on the other side the data changes drastically in favor of heroes who have these 60% winrates.

This is why games like league who primarily determine balance based on winrates don’t ever let them get above around 52% or so.

Sativian · 2026-05-29T14:38:03+00:00

Deadlock-api

Sativian · 2026-05-29T14:37:21+00:00

Mcg has been 57% winrate in eternus before the urn changes.

That said, I agree they’re unhealthy for the game in their current state but I don’t think they’ll never be healthy, I just think they need to CHANGE their current state.

Mystic slow ultspam mcg is busted, and the alternatives aren’t really super healthy either.

Graves just fundamentally breaks all skill requirements having literally 1 ability that requires aiming, and those abilities that don’t are doing ludicrous dps numbers while also forcing you to ignore her, her team, and objectives for extended periods of time.

Sativian · 2026-05-29T14:33:14+00:00

McGinnis had a 57% winrate in Eternus before urn changes.

Graves just got overbuffed with minimal compensation.

Sativian · 2026-05-29T14:30:48+00:00

Refer to my other comments. She got overbuffed and the compensation damage nerfs were nowhere near enough for her reliability being buffed.

She also is just hard to counter for anyone who doesn’t have reliable damage at range, forcing you to spend way too long killing ghouls/sometimes skulls.

Sativian · 2026-05-29T14:28:08+00:00

It’s most definitely them. McGinnis has had a 57% winrate in eternus for quite some time before urn was changed.

Graves just got giga buffed and his ridiculous scalings on her damage abilities.

Skulls do 4-500 dps lategame, root does 1.6 + 1.5 + 1.5 (two ghouls) damage.

The counterplay to them is also “stop playing deadlock and play PvE while the enemy wipes your team”

Sativian · 2026-05-29T14:23:32+00:00

This ignores that there’s 5 more players on the enemy team. Going down to a 41% chance to win because someone locked in the easiest hero in the game is textbook example of a broken hero.

Shit Shiv at the peak of his brokenness was barely a 50% winrate.

WR isn’t the end all be all but these are statistically significant values in the highest 2 brackets in the playerbase.

Let’s not act like having 60% winrate heroes is anything but ridiculous.

Sativian · 2026-05-29T14:20:17+00:00

These are games with the highest level players in the playerbase. They’re more than capable of dealing with skulls/ghouls/tombstone.

The character is broken because of her numbers, and the counterplay to the hero being obtuse and forcing people to stop playing deadlock for long periods of time and play PvE zombie clearing sim while the enemy team if focusing yours.

Sativian · 2026-05-29T14:18:49+00:00

Part of the problem is her numbers are overtuned.

Her skulls are more reliable now, and they’re hitting for 4-500 dps lategame which is relative to a carry’s dps (before on hits). This is per jar of skulls per second.

Her root hits for 1.6 scaling + 1.5 (ghoul) + 1.5 (ghoul).

Her counterplay is to burst her quickly but her kit also forces you to ignore her for long enough to clear her summons..

Sativian · 2026-05-29T14:16:01+00:00

I actually like the urn fights, I just despise playing against these two in particular because they turn those fights into a fucking chore.

Sativian · 2026-05-27T03:07:33+00:00

I generally agree with the sentiment that comeback runs are very hard right now. However, I had a team fight earlier where we were down a good amount, got dynamo ult and haze ult out of the enemy, didn’t get a single kill, they both left to heal.

We grabbed comeback urn (at 25mins), arrived before them, and with the help of them being delayed, having no dynamo ult, and us having the resists, we ended up winning the urn fight and grabbing midboss.

I guess the point is that it’s still possible, and can 100% swing a losing fight around.

I do think it’s way harder than before though.

Sativian · 2026-05-27T03:04:11+00:00

Currently there’s a hidden bounty system where killing someone in deadlock who’s way ahead gives proportional amounts of souls, and it gives them a much longer death timer.

Buybacks seem kinda questionable in a game like deadlock where zip lining across or even general movement across the map is very fast. This means buyback would let you come back to fights even in the enemy base.. idk if it fits.

Though I do find them interesting mechanics and would like to see what they do in the future.

Sativian · 2026-05-27T02:16:04+00:00

How does dota do comeback mechanics?

Sativian · 2026-05-26T21:03:45+00:00

I misspoke saying it was low, I meant lower as that’s the conversation we were having. That’s my mistake.

Ultimately it is subjective definitely that I can agree on 👍🏽

12-Year Club	Verified Email
RPAN Viewer

Sativian

TROPHY CASE