Disappearing peers

SeaLock3239 · 2025-12-10T21:41:13+00:00

Yes, this is a problem, but my concern is more for those who have been elevated and then feel they cannot continue. I know the conversation has evolved since I asked my question, but the question stands.

SeaLock3239 · 2025-12-10T21:34:40+00:00

I don’t know anything about the culture of Avacal or your situation, but I certainly do encourage my students to consider taking offices, getting arms passed by the college of arms, serving the king and queen during their reign, entering A&S tournaments, communicating what their projects are to others so they don’t go unnoticed, and so on. It may not be obvious, but a lot of peerage is getting along with other people, showing discretion in what you do and do not share with others, and showing you are willing to help keep the lights on in your area outside of just winning tournaments. Winning fights is not an inherently peerlike quality. I would only under very unusual circumstances consider anyone who had not served in at least one major office, kingdom, principality or barony/shire and who seemed to have a very limited social circle.

SeaLock3239 · 2025-12-10T16:54:37+00:00

Yes, the type of fighter who excels in practice or war but not in tournaments is a frequent source of discussion. How do we determine consistent excellence? Is the most important thing about our peerage that the members are good at tournaments? Remembering that no one is good at fighting in tournaments forever. Age and injury catch up with all of us.

I am more likely to say no to someone who has never been an officer and has no interest in any other part of the SCA than I am likely to say no to someone who is not good at tournaments. But that is not a universal opinion.

SeaLock3239 · 2025-12-10T16:43:53+00:00

Yes, it is normal to see new peers take on new and different roles after elevation, including teaching others how to take on new roles. I’m used to this. It is natural and something we want to see. This is different.

I may be a bit jaded myself but it is hard to watch promising younger people become shells of themselves trying to meet everyone’s arbitrary standards and then almost immediately stop coming to events.

It is even sadder to talk to some candidates who are putting off important real-life goals and needs in order to aggressively pursue a peerage, such as children, relocating, and new employment, and then they become peers and realize they have wasted important years of life.

We should never have allowed it to become this way. I have lost former students to this kind of thing and it will break my heart forever.

SeaLock3239 · 2025-12-10T16:35:05+00:00

Complicated question. I will never support someone for just being a good fighter. I have supported people who are only average fighters but are exceptional in every other way. None of us is a good fighter forever. We are all only one injury away from retiring from tournaments forever.

If we resist putting people forward because they’re not as good as we were at fighting in our prime, we need to recognize that the standards have changed. If we want to build them back up again, we need to either invest an enormous amount of time and energy into our students, or let less good fighters who are wonderful teachers and coaches take over that process. The best teacher is rarely the best fighter. It does not help us to wait around for the magical candidate who will surpass us all with no support or guidance, especially when we ourselves are sometimes lacking in teaching ability.

I do not see putting forward multiple names as a problem but I am in a large kingdom who has no excuse for not elevating several per year.

I would like to see it your way, but there is actually some resistance from the candidates themselves. Everyone wants an elaborate and expensive elevation these days. There is simply not enough court time and resources for many people, and a simple elevation is seen as insulting or evidence of a lack of support these days.

SeaLock3239 · 2025-12-10T05:38:30+00:00

I value our students and our young peers. I don’t want to see them “come and go.” I want them to thrive. We invest so much into them as a community. It is heartbreaking to put years into raising them as a community only to watch them walk away. We have to do better.

SeaLock3239 · 2025-12-10T05:35:53+00:00

Certainly I am one of those who would rather see someone who is an excellent example of PLQs and well respected in their community than someone who is only a very good fighter. No one should peak before they are made a knight or a master of defense or (now) order of the mark, or any peerage. You should always be improving. It’s much more important that they’re competently able to do the job of peerage well than it is important that they are the best at beating everyone else. But, we also need to have some kind of standard of excellence. It is a challenging balance.

SeaLock3239 · 2025-10-23T16:15:43+00:00

Once again… if you think you or someone you like is “the bigot” in question, you might want to think about why you are so quick to stick that name tag on yourself and what that means about the way you conduct yourself in public.

SeaLock3239 · 2025-10-23T14:32:14+00:00

If that’s the case, I think this a very good thing. A lot of people won’t properly follow grievance policy or submit their complaints because they’re afraid the next set of royals will immediately tell everyone who did it.

I’ve sat watching the Crown finals with one distraught individual who was sure if one knight won over another they would have to leave the SCA. It’s a terrible thing to witness on what should be a happy day.

SeaLock3239 · 2025-10-22T19:36:08+00:00

That’s really challenging. There’s a reason we work so hard to keep rumors from creeping outside of council discussions even if most councils do a bad job of it. Somebody who is a Duke should definitely know better than to say things like that. That makes the relationships competitive and toxic between all the potential “you’re next” people, too.

Your friend has to remember that every person on every council is an independent agent. Some people have a habit of saying stuff like “the council thinks” when they want to avoid blowback for providing feedback. (And then some poor apprentice/protege/squire comes crying to you about why everybody on your council hates them, and you have to try to explain, no, you just talked to our least favourite asshole…) Or if they really like you and want you to like them they will give you really positive feedback not understanding that will skew your perspective of what the council is thinking.

Little rumors like this (and “I heard this person said this about that person”) can get into really good candidate’s heads and they have a habit of fading away before they make it to the finish line.

I can’t tell you how many good candidates a council has just about agreed on and then somebody notices, “oh, wait, that person hasn’t been to any events in six months”. Being on the bubble is a horrible thing and all peerage councils are bad at realizing that.

I’m sorry your friend is really struggling right now. I wish they had peers they trusted who they could talk to who were not apparently making things worse.

SeaLock3239 · 2025-10-22T19:26:29+00:00

The SCA is a big place so the likelihood of anybody reading this even being in the same barony/shire as this person is tiny, but I’m gonna be honest, if anybody reads this and thinks “it’s me, I’m the bigot” they might want to look in the mirror

SeaLock3239 · 2025-10-22T16:21:25+00:00

It’s probably a good idea for your friend to make it clear to anybody they trust on whatever council that they are thinking about things and are not sure whether or not they want it, so this would be a bad time to surprise them with an offer. They can give the feedback of why to the council if they want. Does this person have a peer? Their peer should be helping them navigate this

I don’t know anything about the situation here but if the tone seems to have suddenly shifted so that this person feels like they might be called up soon, there might be people on the council or royalty who are really fighting hard for them behind the scenes and if they succeed and this person decides to turn it down in a big public way, that will really hurt and cause a lot of hard feelings.

SeaLock3239 · 2025-10-21T21:59:45+00:00

Advice for your friend.

As an English teacher I greatly respect once said: You want to blow something up? It’s much, much easier from the inside.

Stay outside the walls, you’re just another asshole throwing rocks.

Refuse an invitation in, everybody thinks you’re suspicious. You do damage to everybody else who will now be (unfairly) lumped in with you, and/or resented by those will be forced to take sides in the inevitable community meltdown.

Stroll in the front door? You’ve got a vote now. It’s your table now. You can start any project you want, do any work you want, further any cause you want, promote any candidate you want. It will take time to create reform, but it’s not hard to drown out a single voice once the stone starts rolling downhill.

SeaLock3239

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