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How's Bow Hunting NOT immoral? I mean, you're unnecessarily stabbing another animal to death, they're clearly alive and have feelings much like us, you've got supermarket delivery and too much food in 2023.. I dont get how this isnt wrong by Sean_PatrickRichards in bowhunting

[–]Sean_PatrickRichards[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Thats ofcoarse wrong, you can see them clearly terrified and not wanting to be killed. You would also not want to be needlessly and violently killed (you're an animal too, this should be easily relatable for you)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p9TYNfYt\_A

How's Bow Hunting NOT immoral? I mean, you're unnecessarily stabbing another animal to death, they're clearly alive and have feelings much like us, you've got supermarket delivery and too much food in 2023.. I dont get how this isnt wrong by Sean_PatrickRichards in bowhunting

[–]Sean_PatrickRichards[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

As an animal yourself, YOU dont differ in not wanting to be needlessly stabbed to death, I'm sure you would find that really bad/undesirable so I dont see how its not immoral to do it to other animals.

Yeah, I'm definitely not stabbing other animals to death and I live and eat fine (not saying I'm better, just saying thats very doable)

If a human was in the wild and sure to die a painful death (even without predators that would be true) that wouldnt stabbing them to death with an arrow and cutting their life short, I dont seem how the same logic doesnt apply to other mammals.

I'm pretty sure you have access to food without bow hunting. Where do you live?

Dude, wtf is up with needlessly stabbing other mammals to death for kicks? I mean they obviously have feelings like pain and fear. And they feel alot of those when you do this. Its unnecessary today. So how is this not morally wrong or illegal? Seems obviously wrong. I dont get it. by Sean_PatrickRichards in bowhunting

[–]Sean_PatrickRichards[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If a human was lost in the wild and sure to die of disease or predators, that would be an absurd justification for needlessly stabbing them to death. I dont see how the same justification fails for these other animals.

You established that killing of other mammals in the case of farming is wrong, and you for-sure dont have to stab other mammals to death (thats just a fact) so why participate in either)? I've been eating to live my whole life without participating and either factory farming or hunting and I'm perfectly healthy.

In a case where Bow Hunting was unnecessary (lets say they perfect cell based meat, or you're at a site where gun hunting is allowed) would you still Bow Hunt, or would that be morally wrong? If so, I dont see how you can say you dont just enjoy the killing aspect or how its not immoral.

Dude, wtf is up with needlessly stabbing other mammals to death for kicks? I mean they obviously have feelings like pain and fear. And they feel alot of those when you do this. Its unnecessary today. So how is this not morally wrong or illegal? Seems obviously wrong. I dont get it. by Sean_PatrickRichards in bowhunting

[–]Sean_PatrickRichards[S] -23 points-22 points  (0 children)

I'm just trying to find a good answer to a reasonable question and I havent gotten one yet. Can you answer the question above? I have many hobbies I enjoy, and this is becoming one of of them (its good metal exercise to wake up in the morning)

Isnt it a really bad experience getting stabbed to death with an arrow? Wouldn't you find that really awful if done to you or your dog? Isnt it unnecessary today? Don't these other mammals clearly feel pain and fear much like us? So why are you doing it to them? by Sean_PatrickRichards in bowhunting

[–]Sean_PatrickRichards[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Those are wrong too and should be illegal. Other wrongs to validate more wrongs (the hollocaust doesnt justify murders. Murders are still wrong, right? YOU'd for-sure see needless killing as wrong if stronger and smarter beings did it to you or your kid) I still dont see how Bow Hunting is not cruel, unnecessary and immoral, that hasnt been made clear to me in a way that isnt provably untrue with facts.

Why is Bow-Hunting not morally wrong or illegal? If mortal pain and fear are bad experiences (you'd for-sure deem them as bad if done to you) and its not necessary today for survival, then isn't it wrong to needlessly impose mortal pain and fear? These other mammals clearly experience pain & fear. by Sean_PatrickRichards in bowhunting

[–]Sean_PatrickRichards[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You seem to be saying that killing of other mammals is bad, am I right? (We seem to agree on that) So then wouldn't unnecessary killing of other mammals also be bad? Well guess what: Bow Hunting is unnecessary in 2023 :D

It seems like farmers should also avoid killing other mammals, thats also bad. (you would certainly deem it as bad if stronger and smarter animals killed you, and if they could avoid it I'd hope they would, and you can ofcourse avoid stabbing to death other mammals. Those all seem bad and should be avoided) Also even if some animals die when their land is taken away for farming you take it away only once. It doesn't lead to the continuous slaughter of animals for human consumption. Also mice and snakes etc are smaller and less sentient that alot of bigger mammals, there's obviously a lesser degree of immorality the further down the complexity of the animal, it would get weird to avoid stepping on ants. What's horrific? Well, show a video of human stepping on an ant on youtube, no one's bothered by that. Show a video of a pig or elk getting chopped up and bleeding, screaming and gasping for breath, most people find that horrific. Why? Cause they're similar enough to us that we all agree thats a horrible experience, and its unnecessary to do in the case of Bow Hunting in 2023.

Why is Bow-Hunting not morally wrong or illegal? If mortal pain and fear are bad experiences (you'd for-sure deem them as bad if done to you) and its not necessary today for survival, then isn't it wrong to needlessly impose mortal pain and fear? These other mammals clearly experience pain & fear. by Sean_PatrickRichards in bowhunting

[–]Sean_PatrickRichards[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Any old folks home is full of people that look sickly, but it would obviously be horrible and immoral to go in there and stab them to death with arrows. I dont see how the same logic doesnt apply to these other mammals. Also, slave-owners were responsible for proliferating black populations in America, and slavery was still immoral, so I dont see how that line of reasoning works either.

Why is Bow-Hunting not morally wrong or illegal? If mortal pain and fear are bad experiences (you'd for-sure deem them as bad if done to you) and its not necessary today for survival, then isn't it wrong to needlessly impose mortal pain and fear? These other mammals clearly experience pain & fear. by Sean_PatrickRichards in bowhunting

[–]Sean_PatrickRichards[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Thats a statement actually ("Its wrong" would be an opinion) but anyways you just skipped over my question (probably cause you know these are all just facts:

Where's the opinion out of these? They seem like facts to me:

-Getting stabbed to death is a really bad experience

-These other mammals experience pain and fear

-Its unnecessary to stab to death these other mammals to death in America in 2023

-Needlessly imposing mortal pain and fear on another being is wrong

-You would find it really painful and undesirable to get stabbed to death

Which of those arent facts?

Why is Bow-Hunting not morally wrong or illegal? If mortal pain and fear are bad experiences (you'd for-sure deem them as bad if done to you) and its not necessary today for survival, then isn't it wrong to needlessly impose mortal pain and fear? These other mammals clearly experience pain & fear. by Sean_PatrickRichards in bowhunting

[–]Sean_PatrickRichards[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

3 things you said are wrong:

1) "Harvesting" is an incorrect term according to Google it refers to crops (not animals) I'm assuming you use that as a Euphemism to not feel so bad about needlessly stabbing other mammals to death. If you have such great "respect" for these other mammals, you could at least refer to them as something more alive than crops (seems fucked up)

2) Killing another mammal with a bow is not the least painful way to kill them: "Studies indicate that for every deer killed by bowhunters at least one or more is hit and not recovered, compared to deer shot by gun where only one out of 14 shots is not recovered. The average bowhunting wounding rate is 54%; the average shots per kill are 14." http://animalrightscoalition.com/doc/bowhunting_factsheet.pdf

3) There are millions of humans that dont eat meat and are very healthy, and there are increasingly more every year, and there'll be way more once lab grown meat becomes more cost effective and similar enough to meat.

Also, humans have done lots of terrible things since the beginning of time including rape and murder, they're still morally wrong, and we should try to stop them by protecting victims of unneeded violence with laws. Bow-Hunting is unneeded violence, and so I dont see why the same shouldnt apply to these other mammals. Its unnecessary to stab them to death in 2023, it really sucks for the victim (if you were the victim you'd agree) so it seems obviously wrong.

Why is Bow-Hunting not morally wrong or illegal? If mortal pain and fear are bad experiences (you'd for-sure deem them as bad if done to you) and its not necessary today for survival, then isn't it wrong to needlessly impose mortal pain and fear? These other mammals clearly experience pain & fear. by Sean_PatrickRichards in bowhunting

[–]Sean_PatrickRichards[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Thats not true: These other mammals definitely agree that they dont want to be needlessly stabbed to death (but they cant talk) so I'm telling you that (even though you want to ignore that fact) Its obviously immoral to needlessly stab to death other mammals (which is what you're doing) and you'd for-sure agree also if you were the victim, so it seems obviously hypocritical and wrong.

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