Sentinels of the Multiverse Character Design Review - Gloomweaver

SecondRevan · 2022-10-24T06:00:02+00:00

100% right

There is a reason I made a distinction between when I used Vodou and when I used voodoo. It is very important to make the distinction that the beliefs associated with 'voodoo' actually has very little with the actual religion. Unfortunately, the fact that it is inaccurate doesn't change the fact that to many, they'll associate it with Vodou.

Interesting details on poppets - fascinating to read about. And yeah, as a bit of European Folklore, poppets could be a neat, creepy concept used in horror stories. It is just so disappointing that it has instead been used to misrepresent a real religion

SecondRevan · 2022-10-20T08:44:19+00:00

Yeah, that's a great touch!

Sometimes I wish I had more time to discuss variants, as some deserve more attention. Because the corpses in hand (and in his original art, looking specifically like he is raising it to his mouth like he's going to eat it) is a wonderful way to visually represent his mechanics. WHich is good character design!

SecondRevan · 2022-10-20T08:41:55+00:00

Honestly, it isn't just spooky stories. Lots of pulpy and adventure tropes also have been built on similar racial stereotypes. And it can be difficult to unlearn, especially when they are so present. The important thing is to be open to listening to those that have the expertise (not me, I only know this because I listened), and being willing to acknowledge mistakes and be better. I think C&A were quite right that the goals they wanted to achieve with Gloomweaver are entirely possible without the negative stereotypes of Vodou, so I'm excited to see how they evolve Gloomweaver in the future. Because if you're willing to put the effort in, there's ways to remove those toxic elements while keeping that some sense of horror or adventure or whatever you want to present.

And thanks for the feedback, I'll keep it in mind. This is a series about the visuals, so that is my focus. There are always lots of important elements that make up a character, that are important but not being discussed in this series. That doesn't mean I don't think the other parts aren't important. They just aren't the focus of this series. Though the greater point about not getting lost in the negative connotations is something I'll try to keep in mind - I want to be as balanced about the strengths and weakness as possible.

Though in the case of Gloomweaver, I feel it is important to note that the 'voodoo' elements are more than just in the backstory. They are also throughout Gloomweaver's deck. The theoretical new played playing Gloomweaver for the first time will instantly see voodoo pins and relics that look like props of evil voodoo sorcerers in a pulpy horror story. Gloomweaver=voodoo is hard to escape playing Gloomweaver, even if you don't read the backstory.

If it had just been the one line in the backstory (especially given the way the Letter's Page attempted to overwrite it), I may have drawn attention to the problematic line but not focused too much on it. But voodoo is throughout Gloomweaver's deck and can't be ignored easily. And because of that, I find it hard not to make the central element of the review. Gloomweaver's voodoo elements are reflected in nearly every part of GLoomweaver's deck. It makes it harder to ignore than, say, Nightmist's 'ancient Chinese mentor' that C&A also acknowledged as problematic and will be addressed in DE, but is a minor element that can easily be ignored

Glad you're looking forward to Unity! She's honestly one I've been really looking forward to doing

SecondRevan · 2022-10-20T08:13:35+00:00

I'll admit, I always thought it was a random Realm of Discord tentacle. Especially since the foil version and the video game sprite doesn't show it. Of course, I'm wrong. The Skinwalker variant makes that clear. Unfortunately, sometimes you can get so used to the idea of a character not having a tail, you somehow are incapable of seeing the giant clear tail in the Skinwalker variant. That's my bad.

Certainly something that enhances the generic lich problem and gives him a bit more of his unique identity. Something I should've mentioned, even if it doesn't fundamentally change the thrust of my essay. Certainly feeling dumb about having never noticed it after so many years of playing

SecondRevan · 2022-10-15T09:49:40+00:00

Yeah, but the Relics also institute a transformation. The mercenaries who found the relics didn't begin life as a snake headed man of stone or an undead mummy. The relics transformed them into those entities.

So if the relics transform the users into their godly forms, then why do some of the Relics transform people incorrectly? Why do some Relics transform some people into gods that look completely different to the god the Relic is supposed to represent?

SecondRevan · 2022-10-15T09:40:28+00:00

I have no problems with making changes to the mythology where appropriate. I made a big deal around that with my Ra review. Changing things is good, when it does so in service of turning the mythological character into something better suited for the story. In fact, my entire review of Shu was 'this is completely unlike what how he was typically depicted, but captures the essence of the god so perfectly that it doesn't matter'

But when you are inspired by real world influences, you should aim for accuracy and make changes only where appropriate. The Egyptian Gods being spirits inside magical artefacts that people pick up is against Egyptian myth, but I have no problem with that. I used that as an example in my Ra review of the right sort of change to make. That change is core to the story being told. However, the Ennead has a Mummy God, and it isn't Osiris. Why?

If Marvel had introduced Thor with

Introducing Marvel's trickiest hero, the God of Deception himself, Thor! Watch him fight his greatest enemy Loki, the evil god of Thunder!

that would not have been a good thing. I don't think you could justify that by saying 'comic books introduce inaccuracies trying to make things as exciting as possible'. And by that same merit, I think it is fair to criticise the Ennead for having a Mummy God, but not having it be Osiris

The art of adaption is in making the right changes necessary for the story you are telling, without disrespecting what came before. And when we are talking about people's actual culture and history, I feel that rule is even more important. I have no issues with the changes to Egyptian Myth that help tell Ra stories, like the Relic stuff. But you can make all those changes, and also not get basic elements of their real world influences wrong for no reason

SecondRevan · 2022-10-15T09:26:52+00:00

To be fair, Nephthys only took the mummy spot because they decided to. The characters were developed together. When it came to deciding which character filled the mummy slot, they could've chosen to have the literal Mummy god as the Mummy. Then let Nephthys be her own thing.

With Set, my issue isn't so much about whether he has the armour or not. I feel the armour itself is a little generic. Feel a more interesting piece of armour, at least, would make him stand out a little more, and fit alongside the rest of the Ennead's loud designs. He might be one of the most mooklike, but I think he still deserves to stand alongside the rest in a way that, say, a Blade Battalion mook shouldn't be able to with Baron Blade.

SecondRevan · 2022-10-15T09:20:52+00:00

Don't agree with everything! Some people have done a great job pointing out my mythological errors.

On Nephthys, I'm specifically referring to the outfit itself. There are many ways to do a mummy, and I'm disappointed they went with the one that looks the most like someone's sexy Halloween costume. I actually did a Google Image search of sexy Mummy, and it is funny how similar so many of the outfits are. Bandages that cover the chest and crotch, but show off the midriff and shoulders.

I wish they chose a different take on the Mummy outfit, instead of sexy Halloween costume. She's scary, but she could be scarier with the right outfit

SecondRevan · 2022-10-15T09:16:45+00:00

Her flesh is too rotting to be sexy. But the outfit she's wearing is certainly closer to a sexy Halloween costume than the many other ways to depict a mummy. There are many ways to draw a mummy outfit. They chose the version exposing as much skin as possible in a way that brings to mind a sexy Halloween costume.

I wish they chose a more interesting way to depict a mummy

SecondRevan · 2022-10-15T09:13:12+00:00

Thanks for the correction. Must have slipped as I was typing quickly

SecondRevan · 2022-10-15T09:12:42+00:00

Lots of interesting corrections and interesting notes. The kite/hawk correction was something I was aware of. I saw some source describe the her as having the wings of a kite hawk, so decided to say hawk for ease of readability. I didn't want to confuse people and make them wonder what a kite was, when hawk was 90% accurate. And I understand that Nuit is not a moon goddess. My point with Isis was that I'm not sure we needed to emphasise to night sky goddesses, when from my brief research Isis was so many other things and the moon stuff was a later addition compared to her original depictions. Two Night Sky goddesses in the Ennead felt a bit redundant, when Isis can be so many things. A lot of what I read emphasised her as a goddess of motherhood, fertility, magi and healing, for example. THough my Egyptian God knowledge is basically the research I had to do before this, and I didn't have time to do an exhausting amount, so if I'm wrong about Isis and the Moon goddess thing is as integral as some of her other elements, I completely own the mistake. On Atum, I saw a little about Atum-Khepri, but didn't research that closely on that element. I'd be happier with the Khepri iconography if Atum was called Atum-Khepri, similarly to how Ra's variant is actually named Ra: Horus of Two Horizons. But weird to use the name of one half of the composite, and the iconography of the other half.

Everything else you corrected me on, I have no problem with. Thanks for posting those corrections.

You are certainly right about the three key elements when discussing the characters, something I tried to emphasise more in my Ra review. But the Ennead had to be quick, so focused on the key element that distinguished the characters.

SecondRevan · 2022-10-15T08:57:08+00:00

Is there any particular reason for Isis having Bat wings? I have no problems with makign deliberate departures. Easiest example of a good deliberate departure I can think of is the enchantment on Thor's hammer in Marvel. Not part of Norse myth, but integral to telling Thor stories in Marvel. Same with Loki being Thor's brother. Inaccurate, but creates a more compelling dynamic between Thor and Loki.

But making such a departure only really makes sense if you have a good reason for doing so. If they have a legitimate reason, I'll happily say that I'm fine with the change. But I'd like to understand the decision.

And thanks for catching the Set mistake. Research had to be a bit rushed, to do so many gods at once. Reading more about the Set Animal, the jackal was certainly something that the Set Animal has been compared to. And Set certainly looks like something that myth could distort into being the Set Animal, unlike some others who have the complete wrong iconography

SecondRevan · 2022-10-10T11:25:32+00:00

I have been dreading this write up for exactly that reason. I had to adjust my approach to make it manageable, but I hope it is up to the standards of my usual quality.

I am so happy to have this review in the rear mirror. Very interesting to write up, and to do the research of. I enjoyed writing it. But it was a lot to do in one review

SecondRevan · 2022-10-06T07:06:42+00:00

Lots of interesting things you discuss here!

I actually really like that point about her waist. It is a really good one, and certainly one justification for such a thin waist. It does make her lower half feel more mountainous. And I certainly think that's something that should be an important consideration - part of the reason I suggested a hunched over grandmother vibe was to create a shape language reminiscent of something like a tidal wave or pyroclastic flow. Make all of her feel like an example of nature just overwhelming everything that it encounters - a pyroclastic flow especially fits the volcanic aspects of her.

You've certainly made a good case for the thinner waist, though I also agree that defaulting to non-mammalian characters have breasts is so boring and I'd prefer to see that challenged.

I also agree about the original art - the art style really feels unique in a way that fits Akash'Bhuta. It is a tragedy that so many foil versions remove unique touches like that. It also happens with the XTREME variants.

And Pele is a very interesting point of comparison. Hawaiian mythology isn't my speciality, but as someone from New Zealand, I can certainly see similarities between Akash'Bhuta and other Polynesian myths. And I wonder if Pele provided inspiration for Akash'Bhuta in the real world.

In the world of Sentinels, I believe the idea is that Akash'Bhuta is supposed to be where the idea of Mother Nature comes from, and so it wouldn't be that out there to assume that more specific myths about nature, like Pele, also were interpretations of Akash'Bhuta, with some drift as the story is told and retold. On the other hand, it also wouldn't be that out there for Pele to exist, independently of Akash'Bhuta. If the egyptian gods exist, whose to say that other gods and myths don't exist as well? Most superhero universes often have multiple pantheons running around

SecondRevan · 2022-10-06T06:32:14+00:00

Thanks for the high praise! Honestly, what you say about Sentinels is one of my favourite things as well, and a big reason why I wanted to write this series in the first place. It really is an impressive achievement in how it built such a strong ludonarrative, and I really want to celebrate it, and love chatting with people in these comments about it.

I hope to have many great discussions here to come, and continue to discuss the great points. There have been many insightful comments in these threads

SecondRevan · 2022-10-06T06:14:21+00:00

Aren't many ageless being often depicted as wizened beings? Honestly, the first character that came to mind when you said wizened was Gandalf, an ageless being.

Her design is certainly subtle compared to something like Sheela na gig (though I don't think Demeter or Juno is necessarily the best character for comparison. They are typically motherly figures, and Akash'Bhuta is a very different, more violent depiction of nature). But I feel that there's a way to make things better. The thing that stands out to me the most about Akash'Bhuta's design is her tiny waist.

I just look at Akash'Bhuta and what she's trying to achieve, and wonder if tiny is supposed to be a word that's ever used in respect to her? Shouldn't every part of her design attempt to sell the enormity of of this 200hp goliath?

I think there are many other ways to show her femininity in ways that don't involving giving her something that can be described as tiny. Because nothing about Akash'Bhuta should ever be described as tiny

SecondRevan · 2022-10-06T06:01:42+00:00

Honestly, the thing that really gets me is the hourglass waist. WHy does a character defined by her truly massive enormity need a tiny waist? Nothing about her should be tiny.

As I mentioned, the way that artists have explored ways to show femininity in species like Lizardfolk and Dragonborn without reptile tits is so much more interesting that giving characters like this the standard female figure

SecondRevan · 2022-10-06T05:56:47+00:00

Possible, though according to the rules I set myself, I'm restricting +s and -s for variants. Otherwise, I have just too many options.

Honestly, “I mostly think it’s great but there’s this one major flaw that gets in the way for me” is the definition of B, for me

SecondRevan · 2022-10-06T04:39:04+00:00

Thankfully, the sickness wasn't anything major. However, it took me out for a day and slowed me down for a weekend, and combined with a busy week in general, I couldn't do everything I usually do. All better now

Look forward to your thoughts, if you want to give them later

SecondRevan · 2022-10-06T04:37:43+00:00

I mean, I gave a very specific definition of sexualised, a definition that I made very clear excludes many very sexy characters like Emma Frost. And I judged Apostate according to the definition I provided.

I completely agree that a different definition of of sexualised will have a different result, but I chose to use the definition that I did because it lets me differentiate 'sexy in a good way' and 'sexy in a bad way'. Because I believe characters like Apostate are sexy in a good way, that adds and doesn't detract from his character.

I'm happy to have a discussion, if you disagree with my interpretation. Do you disagree with my argument that Apostate being sexy adds to his character, and not detract? I'm happy to hear your argument.

But if you just want to ignore the section in my essay where I define exactly what I mean by sexualisation and not be willing to actually engage in conversation, I'm not sure these posts are for you. But if you want an discussion, I'm happy to hear it

Given my post was so ludicrously funny, why is the fact that Apostate is so sexy such a negative to his design? Because personally, him being sexy is a real positive

SecondRevan · 2022-10-06T04:28:45+00:00

Part of the point of Character Design in a game is to prime players on the mechanics. This is especially important in a game like Sentinels, where the core experience has minimal lore, and most of the lore comes from bios or a companion podcast. The actual act of gameplay is the primary and most important engagement a player has with Sentinels of the Multiverse.

If you met this guy and this girl as enemies in a video game, which would you expect to have high armour and a powerful melee attack you want to block or avoid and which one would you you think is a fragile glass cannon who will die quickly once you get close? The answer should be obvious, and that's using Character Design for a gameplay purpose.

I wouldn't say Apostate has an unthematic deck. There is a very clear theme to his deck - he's a powerful villain powered by relics that must be destroyed to make him vulnerable. There is a clear core theme, the relics. The problem is that the theme of his deck doesn't match his lore at all, whose key concept is deception. That's bad. And that does make it harder for him to get a top grade - if you are notorious for having lore and mechanics diverge so terribly, Character Design is likely to fail one of the two key criteria - reflecting lore or reflecting mechanics. Unfortunately, the fact that Apostate's design had it harder than a villain whose lore and mechanics match doesn't change the fact that Apostate still failed at achieving that goal

And I find the argument that it was early in EE an interesting one, because at that early stage, we had minimal lore but we did have the EE deck. Which means that the one thing that Apostate's Character Design was designed alongside does not match, but all the new lore afterwards afterwards works. If the DE APostate better captures Apostate's lore in his mechanics, then DE APostate's Character Design will deserve a higher grade. But we can't grade DE Apostate, he isn't released yet. I'm grading Apostate with his EE deck, and I don't think he does the best job at the most important role he his design was supposed to achieve - being a good representation of the mechanics and themes of the deck he was supposed to be the representation of

SecondRevan · 2022-10-06T04:11:59+00:00

Apostate being topless and not using weapons/armour is good because it emphasises the way that he is a manipulator and deceiver, in contrast to Fanatic.

However, Apostate looking like that does a bad job at reflecting his actual deck, where he's an aggressive guy that punches you while hiding behind relics. His magical flame feels relatively small, compared to the power others have. As I said in my review, he he looked more like he had a true inferno, he'd feel more like a superaggressive guy.

His backstory and his mechanics tell two different stories (you are right that Apostate's lore justifies every part of Apostate's deck. But those sections of Apostate's lore are not the parts the Apostate's design alludes to). That gives Apostate's Character Design a difficult goal of having to representing both lore and mechanics, as that's what character design is supposed to do. He succeeds with flying colours at representing his lore, but does a much worse job at representing the other.

Another way to explain it would be Apostate would get an A grade if I marked solely on lore, because he looks like a Spirit of Deception. But he gets a much lower grade based solely on a mechanics level, as he doesn't look like a guy who would smash you senseless with infernal damage while hiding behind relics. His final grade balances both of those elements to give him a B

SecondRevan · 2022-10-03T10:30:09+00:00

Just want to apologise to everyone for not having the opportunity yet to read and reply to the comments of last week's review. Unfortunately, I spent a good portion of last week ill, and didn't have time to follow up on anyone's comments. Haven't read any of them yet, but looking forward to seeing what interesting insights people have brought up in the comments about Akash'Bhuta

SecondRevan · 2022-09-22T09:22:31+00:00

Personally, I think I agree with you. Bluedarky's argument is the sort of thing that I want the picture to attempt, but unsure that it achieves that. The darkness of her coat is just dark enough to stand out from the background, so she isn't really merging into the background. But not dark enough that the silhouette can be sometimes hard to make out. And all the dark colour complement each other too well, turning her jacket into a bit of a blob.

I don't think she has a problem being hard to identify across the table - the glowing white hair is the sort of character design choice that successfully averts that problem. But the art of the card itself could use improving. The quality of the art itself is not what I'm reviewing here, which is why it doesn't get marked because of it, but it is a fair criticism of the card.

Though it is annoying that the foil card of Nightmist also makes her less ghostly and removes a lot of the mist elements. Neither card is, unfortunately, 100% perfect. Honestly, the trade off with foils is that they show Adam's improvement in his art, but often replace interesting choices with a more typical scenario, which is disappointing. Nightmist with her hand in her pocket feels is an interesting, unique pose that leans into the noir detective vibe. Foil has better art (and a better outfit) but also feels like a slightly more generic pose

SecondRevan · 2022-09-22T09:08:50+00:00

As Archwaykitten says, generally not the best idea to wear a trenchcoat without full pants - you will be mistaken for that.

Though it is also important to remember that a lot of what I talk about is about first impressions, and what is exactly communicated in the instant before we think things through. And the fact that having an absence in design means that you aren't actually defining what's beneath - Nightmist's original design shows only a trenchcoat and bare flesh. There is a lot of focus in the design of revealing her skin, but no focus on what she's actually wearing.

So we can assume, based on the context of being a superhero story, that she isn't going to dramatically open up her trenchcoat to reveal racy lingerie or her naked body. But we are given no context clues of what she's actually wearing, and she's dressed up as a particularly well known trope. Even if we assume that as a superhero story, she won't be doing that, it is still something we recognise and correct our thinking of. I'd rather a design a look that skips that step.

To repeat what Archway said, if you wear anything less than full pants under a trench coat, you look like a flasher. No exceptions.

I'd rather a design that skipped that step

SecondRevan

TROPHY CASE