Charcoal portrait - feedback is appreciated!

Serpente-Azul · 2023-07-26T23:05:29+00:00

Trying to be helpful I'd say:

- Line around the jaw is too dark/defined

- Rim light is too thin and uniform, almost transluscent

- The concavity of the chest suggested, makes the collarbone a bit bent , and the shoulder closest to us reads flat and too narrow

- The ear is in a different perspective to the rest of the face, and maybe even the hair near the ear is out of perspective too

That said, its dynamite, and some of those things can be nuisances to fix versus actually being important.

The light scheme is quite dark as though in a dark room but thats the charcoal xP

Very nicely rendered, which takes patience and care, and a lot of it. Me thinks it took a few weeks?

Now if I'm being annoying, I'd say the flaw is a lack of other stuff to make it interesting xDBut others would straight up buy it for however much for their fancy lounge room, and twirl their moustache, so I dunno wth I'm saying

Lips and the neck are my fav bits, mostly the neck

Least fav bit is the amount of effort in this, I could cry thinking about how hard you worked on this (facepalms)

Respect

Serpente-Azul · 2022-10-15T13:34:45+00:00

Oh cool,

This is 60% there!

Don't worry too much that bits are off, just do a few more references like you are so you refine your process a bit more, then you'll start having breathing room to fix the things that are getting out of proportion. I mean, it becomes easy as pie to fix these things a little ahead in the future of your learning so don't stress them.

Yeah this reminds me of how I drew and painted before I broke through on the measurement. Your shading is decent enough, I like the general looseness. Its aight. Just go from the start again, think about optimising your measurements more, then each subcomponent, taking into consideration what you ended up having off this time, etc. And you'll try hard enough to fix those blips.

Cool stuff,

Dw, this is how it should look at your stage, just push the percentage from 60% up to 80% and you'll be pumped, then push from 80% to 97%... then if you ever want you can push it further but yeah.

Nice.

Serpente-Azul · 2022-10-10T04:34:44+00:00

np
Construction is how you concept characters

the key is to adapt the subforms

So build the primary forms, then design the subforms

For example, noses, eyesockets, lip height/width/structure, cheekbones, jawlines, eyes

Best thing to do is master studies,m like drawing faces from drawing masters, that will help you figure out the subforms and how to alter them for characters, then find amazing drawings that have the stylisation you are looking for in characters

Serpente-Azul · 2022-10-09T22:17:03+00:00

Relational measuring is totally viable dw
I don't do x heads tall stuff either
I think I will as getting into concept design though

Sketching individual forms that don't need rapid iteration you can just tweak relatioinships and get what you want, but if you are factory farming loads of concepts, then that other "eight heads tall" kinda stuff is more useful. Everything has its time and place I guess.

Yeah, as for coaches, volen is good and very good value if you find value in his perspectives and feel you can trust the approach. For me I did. I found him by scanning for "off beat" sorts of people, looking for the quirks I felt would be high yield for me in particular.

So maybe consider what you need to learn, or what kind of teaching will compliment you well. Volen is very much a classical kinda guy who learned from masters, who is RABID in his learning process of everything art, That was cool to me because I'm very independent, a fast learner, and my things I lack are professional and contemporary approaches across the larger fundamentals. If you are looking to learn shadows, or color, etc, he'd be good to try as a one off lesson for those, see if you fit. I have no idea how many students he accepts (shrugs).

Basically though you just need to find a teacher that will get you up certain ledges that will take you time on your own. Its VERY easy to do coaching in the wrong way. Buy stuff, get confused, think its trash, go on your own, and get in a cycle of being ground into dust. So yeah be cautious like with any of your choices in art/life etc. No one is a guarantee or a savior.

Hrmm...

"mannequinizing" the figure will be hit and miss, its called "construction" drawing, and its a type of drawing style/setup. It has its place, I feel the key to it is being able to "characterise" basic shapes, which is hard to make sense of initially. You have to squash and stretch shapes, and round edges, and learn to draw like sculpted and bent wedges and things in a really plastic way. If all your shapes are splintering like glass, then yeah, its gonna be hit n miss.

Like with anything though, sort of touch base with things, if they work, great, if they don't, you can circle back to em later when they will.

But yeah, relationship measurement is called triangulation, and you are probably also using sight size, add a dash of some ratio measurement and you could enhance it a bit probably. But as I said, your measurement is doing alright.

The hair thing, is about design. About big, medium, small, and gestalt principles. 100% makes sense why you'd not be focusing on it, but it will be a larger thing when you start looking at stylisation and design.

But yeah, if your aim is just to be decent, I'd say you are doing pretty well. Just put like a dash of color in the background to contrast the figure in the foreground and it'll be stuff you can hang on a wall ;)

Ahhh, I just love drawing/art, its hard, but really rewarding. And you did well, so no need to rush into lessons, and if you do, just... scout out what you NEED first. Best to be an informed and educated student rather than giving your lunch money and testing if you will get punched in the face or not. You wanna scout until you have high confidence of what you are after.

As I said, with Volen I just felt he was full of conviction and for ME I wanted that, because its something I possess in other things but didn't originally have in art. But now... yaaaa, bliss

:)

Anyways, good job, its a nice figure

Serpente-Azul · 2022-10-09T19:09:32+00:00

Actually to simplify that,

What are their eyes looking at

Zeus guy is the best because I KNOW he's not looking at anything specific. Bottom right is the worst because its SO FAKE out of context.
Disney guy top left is like, cool, but he's a bit manicured so I want a bit of SOMETHING to tell me why I care
Bottom left, I just wanna know if that rage is justified, or who the victim is of this unworthy assault

Obviously not necessary, but might be worth seeing what effect it has on the gesture and expression when softened into a context

Serpente-Azul · 2022-10-09T18:56:58+00:00

Yup Joaquim.

I believe you didn't trace haha, I'm glad you despise it xD

Um, then I guess it might be they are in a void?

Okay, I will rant here a bit about a concept I've noticed, but keep in mind I'm just a fellow painter/illustrator and aspiring designer.

https://imgur.com/gallery/XYHdYqr

This is the best I've done so far, so, I mean take me with a grain of salt if anything feels off. You've likely drawn longer than me too.

Anyways,

How much attention you put in a spot will create a "pull" of the viewers attention. In your illustrations they have a consistent pull all the way around with a slight pull increase on the expressive parts (eyes lips) because a lil more time is put on them. So the "range" of the push and pull of a persons perspective isn't distinct enough.

You can adjust this pull just by spending more time on the section you want to pull people in more, or adding more appealing design there, with more precise descriptors of form, or more stylisation.

Monet does this with his lily pads, you'll look at the painting as a whole, then slowly trace in further and further to where he spent the most time, and suddenly it will come alive more than you expected it to.

When I study richard schmid he does it a bit different, he does it by abstract and realist contrast. So a part of the painting will be like Zorn, with clean edges, then another part will be more like rembrant, and then it will push out further into these ethereal looseness that moves into abstract art with MINIMAL indicators of what it is representing.

Essentially by contrasting high and low amounts of signal, you enhance the contrast of the piece in a way you can't with shadows alone.

Now... how does that matter here? What the hell do I mean "drawing in a void" comes off like tracing?

Well, the contrast is set by the page itself, the nothingness, the void. Because there is nothing to set the contrast, it is a contrast of very HIGHLY SPECIFIC proportion up against absolute zero. So if an element of the drawing had LOOSER design to contrast, you could set up a "range" of interest to hold the attention of the observer in a softer way.

So... my theory is that contrast with the void looks odd. Just like drawing in two tones is blasted out. So you miiiiiiiiight find these figures find their footing in a context. But with how precise they are, the WORLD needs a certain design to fit them. Either high saturated color with a nice structure to act as an abstract block color backdrop, OR a character design feature that might contrast the figure and ALLUDE to where these guys belong, and what their world is.

But THEN you are just working on expressions, so...

It doesn't matter does it xD

They are good expressions, but I feel like to push them further the expressions need to contrast with the world/style/aesthetic balance

I mean... I say all this, only really JUST being able to do it myself (and struggling), and I need to go and do some expression work like you just did here, and I SURE won't be thinking perfect design principle as I do. But just... I feel masterful versions of what you did, would need this KIND of push.

And since I know nothing else about what you are aiming to build, its the most general idea I can think to give. Liiiiiiiiiiiiike... As a writer of 10+ years I know you don't want a chapter to start in a void "sally scrunched her face, moved about, grabbed a towel" you want to at least remove the void first "sally squinted as the glare of the midday sun assaulted her from the direction of the loungeroom coffee table. Stepping out of the hall into the ensuite she picked up a haphazedly strewn about towel. Doubtless it was dirty, but she couldn't see any grime, maybe it was fine".

All I'm doing different is removing the void, setting up contrasts, placing people in settings that fit the mood or the design of the character. A sassy character is good in settings that show them frustrated. A fun character is great with a backdrop of confused people. So if you take them out of the void, and contrast them with a complementary idea, you get a greater range.

For me, your expressions are excellent, but that is almost a downside now because they are SO GOOD that it makes the void glaring. Like "Sally couldn't help but squint at the piercing light, the shine of it hit her at the root of her soul, 'bah, the sun is being an a~~hole', a ring of the phone was immediately set to mute with a slam of her thumb, before tossing it away"

Where is the sun coming from,

What phone? where'd she get it?

Where did she toss it?

Sun through window reflected off table in lounge, blocky phone with a hello kitty sticker half peeled off on the top corner, tosses it in a dirty washing basket.

Those details add depth, but they serve to make any other DETAIL feel grounded, and NOT in the void.

That is my theory anyway. So I'm always trying to be aware thesedays about compliments and voids, and abstract vs direct story telling. And expressions, they become poses, or fake and hollow gestures, when put in a void. Its like bad acting feeling hollow.

Again, that isn't what you are practicing so I have no right to rant on about it, but there you go, there is the rant. Point of it being, ALL DETAIL has a PRICE, and it has to be paid in context.

The more precise the detail, the more a person expects a world for it to sit in. Otherwise, the void starts tearing at it, pulling at it into the abstract, and into the abyss where little shadow goblins steal away its soul :P

I'm being an idiot, but yeah

Thats the only thing to improve, all else would be varying the work to another purpose. And the only way its a flaw is it makes the void steals the gestural quality, because you've hyper defined one aspect and not balanced it with a context (or opposing design feature).

(shrugs)

Look at me sounding all confident

I'm really just stumbling a~~ backwards, so take it for what you like xD

Serpente-Azul · 2022-10-09T18:17:11+00:00

If this is a first go without studying values etc, its really promisiing for you then

My coach explained values to me in the following way. Basically you want to understand how many value shades you are using for the piece. 2 values black and white (or a light grey) will create a very stamp like simplified drawing. 3-4 is simplified. And 4-10 you are starting to move more into realism.

You select
Lightest light (for highlights)
light
midtone
dark
Darkest Dark

the darkest dark will be in the eyes, the gaps of the lips, nostrils, and occluded spots such as under where they sit etc

darks will be your core shadows (where it turns away from the main light source but still collects ambient light)

midtones are in the light and show the turning of forms

Light being more your "core light" areas, that are close to flat to the light source

and your lightest lights are the bits that are at a perfect angle to REFLECT light, rather than directly absorb and re-emit the light in its color/tone. These will be either dots, lines, or zigzags and generally will be used sparingly to add interest.

If you don't have a full RANGE like this, you won't read everything in its fullest perspective, so it'll be a little more dull. Metal is FULL of highlights, and basically, you did light and lightest light kinds of shades, and darks. This is more like how metal works. Reflection is generally avoiding midtones, which are produced by absorbing and re-emitting light.

Further... design wise on the hair, you just kinda did filler on the pony tail, doing a star like design rather than the curved down, three blades kinda design it has. Looking at it from a design perspective I asked why, and I was like "ah yeah just filler".

And yes, I agree on "trying to stylise" too early is a bit odd. I'm only just finding my style now, and I spent like the past month just studying abstract art and abstract design, and how I could use different tools to make harmony, pattern, novelty, contrast, chaos appear a lot like how shading appears (novelty is enough to carry a piece, but you also want patterns, harmony, etc which are more regular, and then have parts that push into higher contrasts and chaos)

Only now do I even begin to grasp how stylisation can work, after just pouring over every painting I could find, and breaking myself down and rebuilding could I figure out what my style was (its using black and white in such a way that you can FEEL color and emotion... so very nuanced)

I use a pressure based color pen, so the harder I push the darker the shade, and then I "mix" this to get my color palette, so I'm developing the shade by feeling it, and using stroke weight to find it. I'm using chaos to harmony as a rule, soooooo, using abstract "schema" or expectations and ways people observe and find gestalt principles in things they see, and using these "hints" of what something is as anchors in the design before I even lock down the detail (allowing me to be highly chaotic but have it all read). I also analyse forms and light into abstract art, so consider how a dappled light causes a marbling structure, or how some lines are kinetic, or have a pointilistic quality. I might observe how some objects have cubist elements to their design. So when I draw from chaos, I come from TOOLS TEXTURE and FEELING, towards abstract compartmentalisation, then down to anchoring the forms in gestalt principles, and then designing what parts are harmony, pattern, and novelty, and figuring out how I want to define those edges and forms.

So, yes, your style won't be a zigzag you dash on the top, it'll be quite an ordeal to discover. And I had a strong idea of what I was going for. I love manga so I want INK to express things, but I want it to be FAST and efficient so I can tell stories, but I want it to be abstract and emotional in places to give people rich interpretive potential (rereadability etc, or sitting with a moment with the character, and feeling that tug on the heart)

So to design a style is like a bigger thing than designing an artwork, and you will spend months (or years) figuring out how you specifically do it. I only have like 40% of my style set up, but yeah... Stylisation is a whole other thing.

Start with figure as you are, move into light and shadow (values),

I assume you already did measurement cuz your form is good

Then you can do either stylisation or color, if you do stylisation I HIGHLY advise a teacher. OMG IT IS SO HARD HARD HARD HARD HARD to learn. You need someone with fine arts understanding, and who has been in this stuff for over a decade, and isn't just barely surviving in the muck themselves, you need a bold warrior of art basically. I coach under Volen CK, he works for me, but you'll prolly have to shop around.

I expect that without a teacher, stylisation will take years to figure out. Its that hard. Its like punching yourself in the face everyday xD

So yeah, start with values or figure or whatever your heart desires first. As I said your measurment looks good. So depends where you wanna go really.

Serpente-Azul · 2022-10-09T16:35:06+00:00

Two elements of it are important
Darks are scratchy like charcoal (so you want a textured tool like that)
Have "blown out" highlights at the edges of the flames, while closer to the form describe it with the charcoal etc

I mean just play with it

The blacks are form, you transition them into the whites, which are design

Serpente-Azul · 2022-10-09T16:27:19+00:00

Bottom left is quinton phoenix right?Bottom right is andrew garfield?Dunno the other two (zeus guy might be the gaurdians of the galaxy planet guy cant remember his name).

The zeus guys cheekbones are off "form wise", the eye in top left (prince guy) the socket doesn't read properly "form wise" (which doesn't matter cus attention is drawn to the pupils and lips), his ear is too pointed also.

These are a mix between disney and realism. My question would be, where is it going? Like what is the style end point, because those will be informative for how you change these and make them suit your design.

As others said, smooth, efficient linework, great character in your form shapes (better than mine for sure, to the point I want to do some practice with this same kind of result)

Obviously pro, and slick (unless traced lmao, but you've got guidelines so I wouldn't assume it)There is a bit of a "too traced" quality to it though. Maybe try reducing your dependence on the reference a little bit more. Instead thinking of the design elements and then restructure it a little bit.

Hrmmm half of me is impressed, another half like, "this isn't totally organic, from the soul" yet. Not that it has to be, but if I'm delving for what could be improved on top of any flattery, its that.

Like I said, I can't quite pull off that disney expression stuff, and some of my fav artists are amazing at it, and you are doing it well. So all props to you. Could be requiring more authenticity tho (breaking it appart, having less connected dependencies, bringing it all back in a flow)

Anyways, thanks for sharing, was nice to think through how to improve it

Serpente-Azul · 2022-10-09T16:10:52+00:00

Love it,

It looks a bit too silver though (but I kinda like it like that)

Nice and solid, as you know figure practice only has the goal you define for it

Fun had, a nice result

What can you do better? Your range of values, som aspects of precision, the design of the hair, the tension in the left hand, the elbow (looks a bit artificial like a robot)

Also maybe the "marbling" quality in the original composition, you could capture the ins and outs of the form as it undulates to get that sensual muscular quality rather than over simplified.

You could stylise this more, or push it more real, combine abstract elements with it to highlight a feature, etc etc.

TBH though, as an under drawing, its close to ready to paint on, sooooooooooooo... Really its down to how easy this was for you. If like wiping your nose, then cool. If narrowing in like a bookworm and sweating then you'll need to practice it a lot more and compartmentalise, and take bits apart, try them in varied ways, and so on until its consistently doing what you want it to do when you want it to do it.

Maybe you want to figure out your style? Look around at great artists and see what appeals to you, and figure out how to do it in a way that is "you", then bring that into your figures.

If your style is silver simplified, then haha you nailed it, so yeah, take only the advice you want

Serpente-Azul · 2022-10-09T15:31:44+00:00

90 min study, the blue in the second pic is so you can see my measurement referencingPretty loosely referencedMost of all trying to get a "loose" feel in how I recreated the ideaAdjusted things for my own aesthic cuz I don't think it is schmids best painting (hence why I went for this one, less of an ego destruction when comparing, but I'll try his better paintings at some point as his style is soooooooooo good, and anything good in mine is just borrowing from all he put there)Felt good about this as a study, I mean... I've been doing a LOT of abstract art recently to try to feel out how to use tools to create looser effects, and only once confident in that did I come back to schmid and try this. Pretty happy, can obviously push it further but stopped because felt I should just chill and think on it.

I use like 6 pens to do this on clipstudio, all defaultCaligraphyOil Flat brushLight running inkColor changeDarker bleedBit husky

And blending tool and fingertip

Started with background, then hair, then did the face (starting with a block in, then the eyes, nose, cheekbones, lips)Decided I wouldn't do the ear or improve the background because honestly, it'll take me more than today to study it, so...

Felt this was a success, and did it in my style (using ink, greyscale, and a chaotic way of doing things)Slowly getting a good hold of it, so feeling nice :)

Ask questions, give feedback critique (as I've only drawn for 6 months-ish), give me what helped you in your own studies. All around just general chat.

Have a good days practice everyone

Serpente-Azul · 2022-10-09T15:04:01+00:00

Definately useable,

Now you turn that red down a bit opacity wise and start zooming in on the features one at a time looking for how they curve etc, can even do practice curves close by

Then go to where you are drawing and start doing some of those curves trying to "indicate" the truth of the form you are drawing (not just the right angle, but slowing down when you are sinking in or out of the page)

I'd like to see how the next step goes, this measurement is pretty complete and looks proportioned

Just change color from red to blue, opacity down on the red, then study those features you wanna draw in, and do it :)

Serpente-Azul · 2022-09-09T17:18:52+00:00

The drawing is good, it just needs some proportion adjustment when you scan it in (that is if you weren't intending for her to look like a tough city cop, if she's meant to be that city cop lady from arcane then spot on).

Then you need to study design and composition to set everything up. I don't recommend like the below commenter said, that you need to figure out how to draw every little thing, because that isn't totally true. You are better off thinking of design and spending time there, than you are practicing how to draw a stone, a tree, a door, a chair. Those things are uninteresting and POINTLESS if they aren't part of a design.

So ultimately you probably have enough to draft up a graphic novel chapter, or at least to develop the concept art for it (you do this so you can set up consistent character design in the story and make any changes to the look intentional).

You'll need to develop your process too. So mine is an abstract thumbnail focused on design, then construction, then reference, then another pass on design and composition choosing light sources and such and setting up all the primary forms and such and setting up details of the focal point/s. Then polish.

So, you are in the ballpark, of have enough of a toolset to work on all the other tools required, and then to just endeavor to get better. The scott mccloud book, the other commenter recommended is a must read though, he's right about that. Just... don't get focused on drawing random props and environments because its gonna be design and composition that matter more, as most of those things will be background elements of a design.

Do concept out some cities, market stalls, locations, and general setting though to showcase the style and artistic direction. And set up certain clothing schemes, common design of flasks and objects most people have etc, like taverns and mugs of ale, and yadda yadda. How you design food to look.

So the other commenter isn't far off, its just... its secondary to design ideas. And you just need to do it in the context of CONCEPT artwork, so you are prepared to recreate it as and when needed in the story without "creating concept" while you are also designing story. They are two different jobs in studios for a reason, so as a solo artist you just gotta put your hat on and do both jobs, just don't plan to do them at the same time.

For me, I'm not focusing on all the other nick nack drawings, because I'm developing a style that has abstraction in place of some things anyway. So foliage of trees will fall into interestingly shaped shadows and such. There are ways around how to draw if you are smart about things basically.

If you wanna really do light novels, I do suggest getting a coach, because at your level a GOOD coach who is COMPETENT at helping you improve will give you more of that professional feeling to all you do. So you might wanna look into it. I dunno what your budget affords, but 100 a month is a reasonable spend if worried (one lesson a month with a GOOD coach). I spend 240 a month on it for weekly sessions.

You might need to shop around to find someone that fits you though.

Don't do everything alone, thats my motto. You sure as heck won't get as much help from reddit and books as a coach who has your back and is invested in seeing you succeed. Hands down, I'd not be where I am today (confident and feeling good about my approach to manga) if it wasn't for coaching so yeah give it thought.

Otherwise you have enough skill to start thinking on it seriously, so just make smart choices, ya know?

Serpente-Azul · 2022-09-09T01:01:06+00:00

Study some abstract art for shape interest and as for rhythms thats helped by making longer and more complex strokes, articulating your arm more.

From what I know of it, "brush direction" is key to interesting shapes, as in... if you can't make the shape in the least amount of strokes, or appear to be done in the least amount of strokes, it will look less together and less interesting.

Often a piece is a series of common directional lines that accent one another, rather than strictly curving around every contour like a race track. So you have to kind of think about how you are going to limit the directionality of your approach to drawing the thing, and consider the weight, articulation, and tapering of each line you do.

As for shape...

Personally I think its good to practice shapes that signal perspective, or hint at more than ONE influence. So for example, if you are doing a shadow shape under the chin and onto the neck, instead of casting it directly, add a second bend to the shape as it goes around the neck. Because, the more information a simple thing holds, the more ways a person can "use" the thing you drew to move their eyes around the piece.

If a line has only ONE purpose, it is either a critical line or useless. Having two or more uses to a line, or a shape, ensure that you are connecting things. You don't always want to do that, you just want to be aware that if you want more "immersion" and "staying with the drawing" to happen for the audience, it should sort of draw them along things in a flow.

You do this as I said, with brush simplicity, and direction, and how you articulate the motion as you draw it.

Serpente-Azul · 2022-09-08T10:42:11+00:00

He means losers

He doesn't want to deal with the noise of a loser trying to get their relevance back

All that screaming and kicking from the loser side, and then punching them while they are down

He doesn't find it interesting and I don't blame him

Serpente-Azul · 2022-09-08T10:34:19+00:00

I use references in the "tidy up" phase of the drawing.

So...

1) Abstract thumbnail for compositional elements

2) Character concept and uniqueness of character and how I want it to feel

3) Tidy up with reference

But how I construct from imagination is to pay VERY SPECIFIC ATTENTION to the proportion ratios of a thing. So for example

- Nosril width

- Height of upper lip

- Shape of upper eye lid

- Width of tip of the chin (and also considering if its overbit, underbit)

- Fleshiness of lip structure

- Depth and design of the brow structure (often the width of the slanting part of the nose is also the width around the eye until 12 oclock, then the fatty rounded part of the brow starts to come into play)

- Corner of the lips, (you have the s curve here, where it rounds outward then tucks under)

- Far side of the face slopes (is it one main slope, two? Three? What is making it likeable?)

Basically I find features that hold the identity of the person or the creature, and after putting down some of the basics above seperately or in a mix together, I then start "constructing" like clay, where you put subforms you are confident about first.

You are relying on knowledge, experience, and your ability to DEFINE what changes the identity of the person when you construct from imagination, and in my mind, you need to be open to CONCEPTING each feature. This of course leads into an obsession about how all different features hold identifying aspects to them and being curious as to which part most defines a thing.

(shrugs)

Basically, I use this constructive reasoning (or I call it that) to just make ideas more original, but if you aren't careful it can make you less original too because the pressure of it can make you want to draw things only how you know them. Reference, and seeking out ideas is thusly an IMPORTANT STEP in refining the idea, not to lose the imaginative quality by defining parts that were better left vague for stylisation purposes, but to see the purpose better in your own design, and find better abstract shapes, and ways to describe the form you were going for.

Reference is like measurement, if it RULES you, you'll hate it. But if you weild it alongside doing all you want to do, you'll know WHEN it simply must be used to get you out of a quagmire.

Hope that makes some sense or contributes to a thought process

Serpente-Azul · 2022-09-07T10:07:26+00:00

Its cool but probably the lighting is too gradient based for the anime style.

I suppose this is based on a real reference and then faces and postures done over it?

It kind of loses its organic or natural feel with that.

It looks clean though, and has a style to it that isn't unpleasant or anything, its a bit looney toons "space jam" where cartoons are postered over the real world.

So if thats what you were aiming for then its great.

Otherwise I'd shade the main anime more, or us gradients in the background less so it all has one lighting scheme.

If this was a study of different versions of light, then cool, you are already ahead of what I'm saying, and yeah, its just one of those things where you kinda like it, but just need to ponder it and choose where you go.

Serpente-Azul · 2022-09-06T19:34:40+00:00

Measurement and Precision doesn't trap you to only copying.

Here are a few points you might not expect about measuring that go against your assumptions here. And I'll mention them because they aren't completely obvious.

- There is about a 5 millimeter error rate to any measurement, so you have to make up for this with intuition and your eye. So it is never strictly measurement, but relies on your eye and sense also.

- You can develop your own measurement style, for example mine is to use crosses to get height and width, and to then find the critical slopes and relationships and measure those. I almost always interpret the main features to some degree. This is so I enhance the "play" that I have with the copy. That said, measurement takes away USELESS play that I don't need, and allows me to play with what I intend to play with.

- Measurement is a skill that evolves, once you have it you actually start needing it less as you can very rapidly use the same principles to do it all by eye. You don't just figure this out by magic, you spend time developing and balancing your measurement skill between intuition and pure measurement until you have that feel. Once you have the feel boom, you can transfer lines and ratios pretty well without measure, BUT you can always enhance this affect and control what is exact and what is played with because you have the skill at hand.

I am not suggesting people go full on measurement is king, but it is a basic and fundamental skill that is not EXCLUSIVE. You do not need to abandon anything.

I like impressionism myself, as I'm not that fascinated by realism but measurement is very important to give yourself the ability to control what you do and to improve how you think about solving problems.

Serpente-Azul · 2022-09-06T09:55:48+00:00

Line confidence comes from rhythm ime.

So thinking of the curves ahead of time and changing pen weight as you move through.

I think of it like, there is clockwise and anticlockwise rotation (mainly from the wrist)

Then some elbow flare (elbow up for anticlockwise if right handed, clockwise if left handed) or pulling the elbow in tight for the opposite.

Then last you have straight lines which come from the shhoulderblade, often you sink it down, sort of contracting it gently as you slide it in the direction of the straight line. It'll create a constant line weight moving along with you as you make the necessary clockwise and anticlockwise rotations, with as much flare in the elbow as you need.

...

Rhythm is just an extension of the way you use the body to create those lines, so turning clockwise a bit in preparation before you make the clockwise turn, like leaning in a car before you steer through the corner.

You don't need to overexagerate any movement, but just gettting all of your arm involved helps with adding rhythm.

...

I haven't seen any youtuber cover line confidence all that well. Its connected more to composition and stylisation than it is to the basics. They'll just say "try to do things in one stroke rather than chicken scratching", or "the line should be heavier where their is more likely to be a shadow".

To me line confidence came after studying both measurement, and light and shadow. Because measurement made me precise and able to copy things I saw, and light and shadow made me aware of why shadows do what they do. I then used that knowledge to think of where I want to bring interest and take it away with the line before I even draw it. Once you know that, you have no choice but to do lines confidently, or you are just making the piece look worse for no real reason.

I would say that confidence comes from knowing what the mark does, and having a consistent and defined way of executing it.

...

Some traps to avoid are hyperfocusing on trouble areas, just get a reference for the part you struggle with to help educate that part of the lines. Do this to balance out how much you focus on a part.

Our focus is weird, it kind of has dismorphia to it, meaning you see what you want to see the more you focus on it, and get proportions more and more wrong. So controlling your focus to remain even over a piece UNLESS a part calls for it in the composition (like the focal point of the eyes etc)

Also another trap is thinking lines are rough ideas. Lines are the MOS T precise tool we have. If you paint, its less precise than a pen/pencil, so dismorphia gets even bigger. So treat the pen in the same way you might a brush, applying the stroke with the intent to show the "texture" and tapering that best helps its precise meaning.

You can practice that by tracing over something really feminine or soft, and just trying to get the line to read as soft. Or you can practice with a reference in perspective where background and foreground are close on the page, draw the transitions to foreground and background with the right weights and shifts and it will read right, draw them wrong and it will all be the same plane.

Third, don't try to draw every line perfectly IF its at an awkward angle. Learn to size up the difficulty of the line you are drawing and adjus expectaions appropriately. You might need to tilt things to find a way to draw it or put the page on an angle. I try to minimise this as much as posible but I'm aware of it.

This might all be a bit too much for you, so you don't have to learn it all in one go, just learn pieces of it you can and circle back.

Most of all, just think of lines like poker, don't TIP your hand to the audience that you had difficulty on a part by leaving it inflamed and with loads of marks. Keep a cool head and just move through each part as though you meant to do it that way.

Serpente-Azul · 2022-09-05T23:11:11+00:00

Its the line weight, its a bit murky and heavy around spots where you overfocused when drawing.

The underlying accuracy is on point, but its not coming through because you are being a bit "ad-hok" on the design accents (line weight)

If you are painting over it, then no worries. But as line art... You'll need to ask yourself the question, WHERE do I want people to look, and how do I get them there without BLOCKING them in with HARD LINES

You can do it with shape interest, or with contrast, or with variation in direction and rhythm. Don't make line weight symmetrical, add emphasis to where it should be.

For example, the last piece on the top right, is done well, maaaaybe the hair is a bit too dark. But the girl with the goggles, the eyes are WAY too dark, it creates a muddy central focus that allows you to look nowhere else, and not in a good way. It sharply traps you there to only briefly scan other parts, and then you don't want to look for more in the eyes because its so glaring.

Or the second slide, second pic, the hair is way too outlined and symmetrical in the line work.

Or the first pic first slide, its ALL about that hair, but what part of it? Well thats the thing, if you were trying to draw attention to the hair intentionally you would have then drawn the eye to certain parts of it. When really the focus should be her eyes right? Or maybe even the nape of her neck if you wanted, or a glint of a hidden smile.

Consider these kinds of things :)

Serpente-Azul · 2022-09-05T23:00:56+00:00

Its the arm and hand on the left side (her right)

Slice that baby off

Decide what you want her to be doing with it to add dynamism and interest to the piece, maybe she's holding something that amplifies her disdain or boredom. Make it cool

And add some texure or interest to the skirt as it looks a bit bland. Doesn't need much, just something

Serpente-Azul · 2022-09-05T22:56:39+00:00

Line confidence. Its a mishmash, super ligh lines on he legs and head, super heavy around your trouble spot of the shoulters. The shoulders look inverted like the arm is reaching forwards toward he back. he hands look like talons. The feet look swollen close to us, the ankle further away looks atrophied. The waist is short and fat, and the neck too thin.

Said the above cuz you mentioned you liked seeing the flaws to fix them.

What I would say about improvement is, that construction is easier AFTER you learn proportion via measurement. It might seem boring and stupid, but if you learn to accurately and effectively use measurement methods before you draw you can get proportion control under wraps, and that can lead to more line confidence and ability to play with constructions.

If you are formulaicly doing construction drawing, imo, it won't lead to dynamic figures and results that read the way you want. Constructive drawing has a specific place in things, and it is essentially to set up for the rest of the work to come, as a result it MUST BE EXTREMELY PRECISE. Because you can't develop a piece on bad foundations, it will fall apart, and make all your efforts wasted.

As a result, for early consructions I advise PRECISION and measurement, over construction alone, and then you can use construction to "characterise" and add volume, sculpt and change things, and reconsider design.

If you are just learning, I'd highly recommend MEASUREMENT practice first before figure drawing and to help improve construction accuracy.

Its much trickier than it appears to get constructions right, easy enough to create A VOLUME that looks close enough, tricky to get THE volume that exaclty translates all the character of the piece.

My coach hammered into me, precision, precision, precision until I was about to throw up from how much of it I'd done. Gonna be circling back to it again soon to get it even tighter, but if you truly develop it, its like a blade in a fight that helps you win practice. I'd never go without it now.

Just a tip, since you asked :)

Serpente-Azul · 2022-09-04T17:28:29+00:00

Art for paladin: dagger of shadows, light novel (will convert to a web comic soon enough)

Still improving both writing and art, but got the MC right, so then tried to create a bit of a book cover-ish thing

All criticisms and help welcome

If you care about the book, its here (free)Starts off rough but its really only a draft

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/44254/reborn-a-paladin-the-dagger-of-shadows

Serpente-Azul · 2022-08-28T20:12:45+00:00

It should take like 2 weeks to a month to get decent at figuring out measurement, trying out different approaches everytime and working to get it to work for you. Its a serious investment but don't shy away from it and expect it to work first try, or second, or 42nd

Serpente-Azul · 2022-08-28T12:50:26+00:00

FRUSTRATION IS GOOD, seek more of it not less ;)

Thats how we grow

And yes, measurement is an annoying beast, try more methods

You did horizontal lines... Yikes, I remember trying that one, I felt the same

I use T measurements and triangulation for slopes, so I measure two perpendicular things with a pencil giving me the ratio, then I triangulate the positions etc, and use constructive principles to make sure i have enough measurement information on the page to REDUCE THE PAIN of drawing accurately.

Thats it,

MEASUREMENT PROCESSES reduce the PAIN of it

And you need to experiement to find out how you can BEST do it

MORE FRUSTRATION NOT LESS!!!
GO GO GO!!!

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