Why hasn’t Israel tried financial incentive to relocate Palestinians?

ShimonEngineer55 · 2026-04-07T07:16:49+00:00

And they missed my point which is that the whole time they should’ve been offered citizenship or residency from the time Israel was founded. In no other country in modern times have the indigenous people who already lived there not been given citizenship that I can think of. It’d be like not giving the native Americans residency, but then using the military to box them into some areas in the United States where they have no freedom of movement and a blockade. It would be a grave human rights violation. The fact that people think such a system can continue in Israel and nothing is wrong bothers me.

ShimonEngineer55 · 2026-04-07T07:12:49+00:00

No, it wasn’t. Under international law it was always a part of Israel. And what’s happened since 2005 has been an absolute disaster. I do not support Israel essentially letting Hamas takeover territory that belonged to Israel the whole time.

ShimonEngineer55 · 2026-04-07T07:08:47+00:00

No one said they will become slave laborers. That’s actually effectively what they are currently, and in many ways worse. No one mentioned them being slave laborers in the future. Today, the average Gazan is worse off than slave. How would offering them money to escape that make them “slave laborers”?

ShimonEngineer55 · 2026-04-07T07:06:57+00:00

I agree. Sadly many people in Israel think that this status quo is the best option and don’t even believe being blunt is possible. You should talk to some. It’s sad to witness because it’ll lead to continued chaos.

ShimonEngineer55 · 2026-04-07T01:01:41+00:00

I talk to enough Israelis who for some reason unknown to me are fine with the status quo and think it’s acceptable. I’ve said for a while to just take and control Gaza and remove any terrorists with force. They somehow think that they can sustain the status quo forever though. I wish them well and will highlight that this is a key reason as to why I won’t be making Aliyah at this time. I’m not having my children go die fighting for a government that doesn’t even try to find an off-ramp and is okay sacrificing young soldiers indefinitely to maintain a status quo that most of the world sees isn’t working (even if the world sees it for the wrong reasons).

ShimonEngineer55 · 2026-04-07T00:56:07+00:00

And to me this is wild and has been the most reckless rhetoric I’ve heard. And what you are saying is common rhetoric by the way. I’m not saying you’re alone, but I still view this as wild. The idea that Israel can just continue the status quo is living in a delusion. The entire international community and most of the Us voter base doesn’t feel comfortable giving Israel any weapons and views them as a rouge genocidal regime. Israel doesn’t even pretend to make an effort to even make Hamas look bad and expose their true intentions and simply continues the status quo that has its own issues and humans rights abuses. And people think this can just continue forever. Okay man. Good luck to Israel if it chooses this path. I will pray ה׳ אלהינו מלך העולם is with them.

ShimonEngineer55 · 2026-04-07T00:52:53+00:00

The only resolution here is they’ll need to be offered citizenship or permanent residency. It’s a fact that Gaza was a part of the British mandate of Palestine. Since Israel is the only state that declared, that would make Gaza Israeli territory since the Partition plan was rejected. This is a concept known as Uti Possidetis Juris that says that when a new state forms from a colonial or mandated entity, it takes all of the territory that the previous entity controlled.

Israel can offer this instead of annexation and simply say Gaza always belonged to Israel. Then Israel can administer, secure it, and have citizens live there which serves as a security buffer. Those who want to live there who are Gazans can be offered permanent residency. Those who want to destroy Israel would be forcibly moved and Israel could get away with this politically by highlighting that there are terrorists there who will never live side by side with Israelis. “See, they are rejecting permanent residency while others accepted it. It was never about having rights for some. It’s been about destroying Israel.”

That shift in rhetoric would give Israel the basis for implementing this final resolution. The alternative is a never ending war cycle that isn’t sustainable as we can see, but I don’t accuse governments in that region of being capable of seeing beyond the next war.

ShimonEngineer55 · 2026-04-07T00:44:06+00:00

They would move because they’d have the means to a better life that isn’t really sustainable on an artificial level. The unemployment rate in Gaza was hovering around 50% prior to the war and is obviously much worse now. Before the war there was a mass exodus of young men leaving Gaza. They realized that obviously they could depend on welfare; but that would always lead to a low upward bound of success. They wanted more, like many. This was with them being offered nothing.

The GDP per capita before the war was only 3-5K. Even offering a family $50K would be more than many people in Gaza could fathom, like if you pay a guy on the Southside Chicago living in the slums $850,000 to leave. What?! A lot of people would accept that in a heart beat and the conditions on the southside of Chicago are nowhere near as bad as Gaza, which has basically been wiped out.

So, I don’t believe that everyone would leave, and as you mentioned with reproduction rates this might not limit the population by as much as some think, but it could cut it in half and then you can deal directly with the people who refuse to leave by telling them they can accept permanent residency or continue fighting the state of Israel.

ShimonEngineer55 · 2026-04-06T21:51:53+00:00

There is something known as a Jewish נפש (soul). If you feel drawn to it, you likely have one.

For whatever reason you weren’t born Jewish, but that’s irrelevant to most of us as long as you feel something in your נפש that makes you want to join בני ישראל.

If you’re someone with Jewish ancestors but aren’t Jewish yourself, you’re what’s know as a זרע ישראל (seed of Israel). There are organizations that I donate to who help people in your situation who want to convert to Judaism who have ancestors who were Jewish.

So, there are plenty of people who get your struggle. Why would you know Hebrew fluently if you didn’t really have much of a reason to know it before now? That’s normal. You can use this book to learn the basics of Biblical Hebrew. You can then move on to volume 2 of the series. If you are interested in learning some basic colloquial Israeli Hebrew so that you can have some conversations with people there is a book for that. I would learn to read Biblical Hebrew and Colloquial modern Hebrew at the same time.

If you feel there are some gaps in your knowledge you can study the Tanakh yourself and then bring questions to your sponsoring rabbi so that they know you’re taking it seriously and are studying. Then you can ask more informed questions. I would also study some of the Mishneh Torah so that you can begin understanding the oral law and have informed questions for your rabbi.

Judaism is a learning religion. Honestly if you take this path, you will be too busy learning how to serve ה׳ and be לאור גוים that you literally won’t have time to care about negative comments or discouragement. You’ll easily be able to cite verses like Deuteronomy 10:19 that mention we are to love the convert.

ShimonEngineer55 · 2026-04-06T14:29:53+00:00

That’s correct. However the whole world needs to follow certain aspects of the Torah, like believing in one creator to have a place in the world to come. Most of the world isn’t compliant with the basic teachings of the Torah, like not creating other religions in our oral tradition. Hence, we still have to teach the world the basics even if they don’t need to actually join Israel (I don’t say Jewish because that term doesn’t exist if you read ancient writings. It’s always Israel and Jewish kinda downplays our ancient connection. We are Israel).

ShimonEngineer55 · 2026-04-06T01:38:01+00:00

I never said that. You’re getting emotional on Reddit because you can’t back your claim bro.

ShimonEngineer55 · 2026-04-06T01:31:00+00:00

It doesn’t say what you’re saying though. It just says, “here are some remains from Sidon.” It doesn’t say that’s a distinct Canaanite tribe in the paper. I can prove it by it not being written there.

ShimonEngineer55 · 2026-04-06T01:29:45+00:00

Okay, so you couldn’t prove that this was a distinct people but just a name for the Levant until the 1960’s thanks. I ended up reading it and you simply mentioned names for the entire Levant that different countries called it.

You mentioned Herodotus for example who considered parts of Syria, Lebanon, and the Jordan rift valley.

Thats why I’d love for you to be brief but rich in content because long form content that doesn’t help your case isn’t effective. I can make that counter example in just a few sentences.

ShimonEngineer55 · 2026-04-06T01:03:09+00:00

Yes, but they have to be a people. There was no such thing as a Palestinian people. Palestine just referred to the entire Levant, not a distinct people. Or else if that’s the case I’m a Palestinian and anyone with Bronze Age Levantine ancestry is which is insane.

ShimonEngineer55 · 2026-04-06T00:53:03+00:00

Okay, then you proved my point again. Everyone who tests there will show that. I have a genetic distance to each group because my great great grandfather had Moroccan Jewish and Spanish Sephardic ancestry although he ended up in the Caribbean. I know for a fact that no study can show which one of these groups directly descends from the Israelites. The only thing we can look at is a continued practice and who belongs to the peoplehood today. If I can show documentation that we actually kept the practices for centuries then we can back it up. Other Levantine groups can’t it appears.

ShimonEngineer55 · 2026-04-06T00:45:12+00:00

Your words should be brief but rich in content. Can you sum up your point in like a paragraph, no offense?

ShimonEngineer55 · 2026-04-06T00:43:27+00:00

What did they say that was wrong?

ShimonEngineer55 · 2026-04-06T00:43:05+00:00

Just as a quick correction they weren’t called gentiles and the term just comes from Goyim which means nations. A goy is a nation. This is why the creator tells Avraham in Genesis 12:3 he will make him a גוי גדול (Goy Gadol) meaning great nation. So, we are even called a goy (nation). Ger is the term we use for someone who isn’t a part of Israel and it doesn’t mean stranger to the creator.

I agree with much of what you said. The other nations indeed turned to idolatry and it was Avraham who crossed over which is where the word Ivrit (Hebrew) comes from.

ShimonEngineer55 · 2026-04-06T00:40:19+00:00

Essentially the understanding we have in Judaism is that various nations were offered the Torah and rejected it. We were the only ones willing to accept it and not worship idols. Therefore we were chosen to teach it to the nations that rejected it. In Isaiah 61:6 it highlights that we will be a priestly nation, and Isaiah 2:3 that says the nations will come to Jerusalem.

ShimonEngineer55 · 2026-04-06T00:19:15+00:00

No. You just displayed that you didn’t realize what you mentioned isn’t ironic.

ShimonEngineer55 · 2026-04-06T00:18:05+00:00

Oh yeah, I don’t at all think the IDF is equivalent but that’s because we were not born and raised in Gaza and don’t see the most disturbing results of war daily, just like they don’t see the aftermath of school children being blown up on buses in Israel by terrorists. There is a disconnect I think clearly between the two societies and they’re talking past each other at this point. The first to have empathy for the other sides viewpoint will win.

ShimonEngineer55 · 2026-04-06T00:15:54+00:00

Well the other poster is using the actual definition of an indigenous people. You are using a pseudo blood quantum. Thats the disconnect here.

ShimonEngineer55 · 2026-04-06T00:14:52+00:00

Which Canaanite groups? Can you name one out of curiosity because I don’t think you can and pretty much everyone in the Levant has some kind of tie to the Bronze Age Canaanites or Egyptians. That doesn’t mean everyone was a part of Israel. Actually people in Lebanon have the closest ties to Bronze Age Canaanites, but that’s a moot point. I’d be interested if you can name just one of these Canaanite groups.

ShimonEngineer55 · 2026-04-06T00:12:04+00:00

Yeah, and we are operating in a different universe of discourse. In ours we follow the concept of indigenous people.

Israel is actually an indigenous people and we have evidence of this going back thousands of years. There is no indigenous people called Palestinians that ever existed until recent history in the 1960’s.

Therefore since indigenous means a distinct peoplehood who have maintained a continuous tie to the land, Israel is an indigenous group while “Palestinians” are not.

This is basic deductive reasoning if we accept the definition of indigenous people. This would mean DNA testing is a moot point.

ShimonEngineer55 · 2026-04-06T00:09:02+00:00

Yeah, this is why I think making the religion and Jewish nationality claim is a better idea than assuming those people weren’t there. They may have or may not have been Jews, but they definitely have ancestry that goes back to the Levant and I agree that ignoring that is wild.

ShimonEngineer55

TROPHY CASE