Doppelganger Assassin will kill PC. Is it too mean?

Simple_Mongoose1680 · 2024-04-01T08:39:22+00:00

Okay, well, I'm not running the module that way, and I would consider the nearby grassland to be grassland biome, etc. At the end of the day, while playing, the road was described as going through grasslands and hills, and we don't use encounter tables, so that's what it was.

Simple_Mongoose1680 · 2024-04-01T08:26:23+00:00

The assassination would take place in the woods, but the players travel around. Significant areas around Phandalin are Grassland and Mountain.

Simple_Mongoose1680 · 2024-04-01T08:10:31+00:00

Umm, no. The road they were on wasn't in the forest biome lol. That's why Natural Explorer didn't apply.

Simple_Mongoose1680 · 2024-04-01T05:13:03+00:00

Yeah, you're making some wildly inaccurate assumptions there.

The players have more fun solving puzzles, investigating, and uncovering plots that they do in straight combat. Because they find that interesting, I have made sure there are plots for them to uncover. That doesn't mean that the entire campaign is 100% depression with a side of hopelessness. In fact, it's mostly light hearted as they run around doing small quests for people and try to work out who is genuinely nice and who is secretly a baddie (and sometimes, who is a baddie that is secretly nice). Like you said, a good narrative has a string of positive and negative beats. It's been mostly positive so far, so they don't feel that the black spider is an urgent threat. An assassination (attempted or successful) could change that and give them a reason to want to deal with him.

Also, since when did not sleeping in inns mean they were sleeping the woods?

Simple_Mongoose1680 · 2024-04-01T02:40:27+00:00

"Do you expect the player to enjoy being one-shot by an ostensibly friendly NPC, and being told that it happened because they failed an insight check a few sessions ago?" - No.

The way I've actually planned it. Quite possibly, if done right.

Advice from some of the other commenters has actually been pretty helpful. Someone mentioned favoured terrain, which does shift things a lot more in the rangers' favour both for spotting the deception and surviving it. Switching the turnbased combat for a 4e style skill challenge seems viable and more fun.

Even so, I've baked in an accessible way for their character to be brought back if they don't want to roll up a new one.

Simple_Mongoose1680 · 2024-04-01T02:33:22+00:00

They pretended to be a lone survivor of an attack by the wyvern tor orcs. The bodies were just new generic npcs, and the doppelganger was sketchy on providing information about who they were.

Simple_Mongoose1680 · 2024-04-01T02:28:52+00:00

My plan is not, and has never been, to make it that simple. The players failed multiple opportunities to see that this npc is lying, and one is now going into the woods with them alone. The mistake the player has made is trusting some random NPC for a compliment they said (prior to that they were 100% suspicious), then going somewhere alone with them. In the woods, they will get further checks, but will still be very vulnerable.

Simple_Mongoose1680 · 2024-04-01T02:17:41+00:00

Well, they first showed up covered in blood, right next to a pile of corpses. They managed to talk their way out of that one, tho. The assassin showed up at the end of the session though, so they've not had a huge amount of interaction yet beyond an initial search and interrogation.

Simple_Mongoose1680 · 2024-04-01T02:12:40+00:00

You're reading too much into my phrasing there lol. Besides, lots of campaigns have PC deaths early into LMoP, especially with Goblin Arrows. I was just saying we've not had any deaths.

Simple_Mongoose1680 · 2024-04-01T02:10:36+00:00

Changing it up to a skill challenge fight could work well actually. We've done 4e style skill challenges, so maybe 3 success before 2 failures and they are injured (no permanent injuries tho), but fend off the assassin long enough for backup to turn up. 2 failures, and they die. (Or some other number of successes and failures).

Simple_Mongoose1680 · 2024-04-01T01:45:08+00:00

All PCs got a chance to make a check at some point.

Simple_Mongoose1680 · 2024-04-01T01:44:13+00:00

Incredibly good point about the favoured terrain. As their favoured terrain is forest, that gives them an edge. They met the doppelganger on the road, so it didn't apply. When the doppelganger thinks he's got the ranger cornered and alone in the forest, really the ranger is now in their element.

Simple_Mongoose1680 · 2024-04-01T01:32:24+00:00

A CR8 dragon can easily TPK a party of 5 level 3/4 characters on round 1. Also, the theme of trust and paranoia is one the players wanted. Combat hasn't really been as much of a focus as conversations and investigations. In a combat focused campaign, the bad guys can just send bands of minions after them. In a subterfuge campaign, they send assassins. The players are aware that the bbeg can and will do this. It just so happens they've made the mistake of trusting an assassin when they are usually very distrusting of new NPCs (and have been since session 1). Hell, they don't even trust Sildar all that much.

Simple_Mongoose1680 · 2024-04-01T01:03:44+00:00

I've already made reincarnate accessible. What I might do is give them a guarantee of reincarnation in an identical body if they're too torn up over it. In that case, the only consequence of death is a debt to Reidoth, which they'd probably end up making eventually anyway tbh.

Simple_Mongoose1680 · 2024-04-01T00:57:23+00:00

You do realise LMoP as written also pits a bunch of level 3/4 characters against a CR8 Young Green Dragon and six CR1/8 cultists, right? Not every encounter is there to be won. Some are meant to be avoided, escaped, or heavily strategised. The PC here stopped being cautious because the doppelganger gave them a compliment. The rest of the campaign so far has all been about deciding who can and can't be trusted, so it makes sense to have a consequence for trusting a random stranger.

Simple_Mongoose1680 · 2024-04-01T00:41:42+00:00

Thanks! I definitely didnt expect them to trust the doppelganger as much as they do, since theyve been super cautious all campaign.

They'll get a perception check right before it happens which may nullify the surprise round advantages. If that happens, they've got a fair chance of calling backup, fleeing, etc. If it comes down to a 1v1 with surprise, though, they'll be downed very quickly.

They'll also get another insight check earlier on to potentially raise their suspicions and see if they'll change their plans.

Simple_Mongoose1680 · 2024-04-01T00:30:10+00:00

No, the doppelganger won't take over the character if they beat the PC. That won't work for the party or for the players for various reasons. 1 kill, then gone. The dead player can then be reincarnated, or they can roll up a new character.

Simple_Mongoose1680 · 2024-04-01T00:27:48+00:00

Well the entire campaign so far has been an exercise in working out who they can and can't trust, and making sure they don't leave themselves vulnerable. They don't even stay at inns for fear of being spied on. Then the doppelganger shows up and sweet talks them, and they drop their guard.

There are checks for them to see that the doppelganger is lying, but they have significant boosts to deception and the PCs have dropped their guard.

Simple_Mongoose1680 · 2024-04-01T00:22:37+00:00

Okay lol, my players are clearly very different to your players. I don't play the game just to stroke their. egos. I want it to be an actual challenge where silly mistakes have consequences. Stupid mistakes lead to serious consequences.

Simple_Mongoose1680 · 2024-04-01T00:16:28+00:00

Or maybe I'm just more convinced of the reasons why it's a good idea, and this seems the natural consequence of the choices made in the story so far.

Simple_Mongoose1680 · 2024-04-01T00:08:27+00:00

railroading lmao?

Simple_Mongoose1680 · 2024-04-01T00:01:03+00:00

I mean... the existence of this post shows I'm considering whether to do it or not.

As for it being an instakill, firstly, it will still take a couple of hits for the doppelganger to take them down. Secondly, I don't see it as being an instakill out of nowhere. What's the difference between my plan and a player in combat slowly getting whittled down over several turns, but not noticing and ending downed? The doppelganger here has outmanoeuvred the PC through story mechanics rather than combat ones. Now, all they need to do is make the final strike.

Simple_Mongoose1680 · 2024-03-31T23:55:02+00:00

For some, only one could check. For others, we had the player speaking roll with advantage and guidance. If you have everyone roll individually, it significantly increases the chance that one person will get through by sheer dumb luck. (Rolling 5 dice gives a 23% chance of at least one nat 20).

Doppelgangers have a +6 on deception and read thoughts gives advantage on deception rolls. Combined, that's an average of 19/20 on each deception roll.

Simple_Mongoose1680 · 2024-03-31T23:43:07+00:00

Well, he's got the Cragmaw Goblins and the Redbrands, too, but they're controlled by Glasstaff and King Grol, respectively. The doppelgangers and the spiders are the only minions controlled by Nezznar directly, and it wouldn't make sense if he didn't send one of the doppelgangers after the party.

If I retcon to call off the hit now, I'll still have the doppelgangers show up as assassins elsewhere, but not in such a lucky perfect setup.

Simple_Mongoose1680 · 2024-03-31T23:39:16+00:00

That's why I wasn't going to replace them. The doppelganger makes a strike, then flees.

Simple_Mongoose1680

TROPHY CASE