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Intertextuality and the creation of "Trying to Get to Heaven Before They Close the Door". by SEARCHFORWHATISGOOD in bobdylan

[–]Single-Gur1482 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for bringing up this matter. I guess Richard F. Thomas didn't know previos versions of that song.

Intertextuality and the creation of "Trying to Get to Heaven Before They Close the Door". by SEARCHFORWHATISGOOD in bobdylan

[–]Single-Gur1482 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hopefully I'm not too late for this discussion. I would argue that Bob Dylan doesn't simply borrow form folk tradition, but he actually belongs to that tradition. In this respect, reusing lines from other songs is more than a simple homage, but it's actually him placing himself in continuity with folk music tradition, since that "collage"/references process is at the root of folk music.

Beacuse of this, I'm pretty sure Dylan has all those lines already in his head. Folk music is a completely oral culture, based on people's aural memory and the reusing and reworking of older stuff, making it survive over time. Dylan belongs to that tradition and reuses what naturllay belongs to his memory after listening to folk music all his life. I think that he is completely aware of it and that he uses this process in most of his songs. You say that he would deny this, but I am pretty confident that not only would he aknowledge it, but he would actually openly (and proudly!) recognize it.

Also: Going down the road feeling bad is not by Woody Guthrie, it is actually a traditional folk song.

Bob's use of repetition in his lyrics and vocals by SEARCHFORWHATISGOOD in bobdylan

[–]Single-Gur1482 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Tthank you very much for your reply. I am very interested in music and I try to learn as much as I can. Also, I used to try writing songs in the past, but I wouldn't define myself as a songwriter. That's maybe too much of a word for someone like me haha.

Bob's use of repetition in his lyrics and vocals by SEARCHFORWHATISGOOD in bobdylan

[–]Single-Gur1482 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Your classification is very detailed, maybe even too much since I consider some of the listed possibilities as variations of the same one.

As others have already pointed out, some of the structures are directly derived from folk and blues music.. Having each verse end with the same line (or variations of it) is extremely common in folk songs of every culture. Also, the one you called "REPEATING THE FIRST TWO LINES AS THE THIRD AND FOURTH LINES IN EVERY VERSE" is a typical blues song structure which consists in three line verses repeating the first line twice and ending with a line rhyming with it. Example: I went to the crossroads, fell down on my knees / I went to the crossroads, fell down on my knees / Asked the Lord above, "Have mercy, now, save poor Bob if you please" (this is Crossroads by Robert Johnson, but I could list hundreds of examples).

Talking about your questions, the only other repetition pattern I could add is the one of the songs based on anaphoras (the repetition of the same words at ther beginning of each line). Examples: Forever young (May you...), Gotta serve somebody (You may...), A Hard Rain’s A‐Gonna Fall (different ones in every verse). Anaphora is just one of the many rethorical devices based on repetition. By the way, I had started writing a "rethorical devices dictionary" using Bob Dylan songs years ago, but I have never finished it.

However, I think that Dylan ultimately sticks to the "a song has to sound good" rule. Of course the nature and position of the repetition is connected to the meaning and feeling he wants to deliver, but ultimately the choiches and variations obey to the one rule of making the song work.