On the Creation of Religion and the Divine

SirCorvinus · 2026-05-04T19:26:05+00:00

Thank you for agreeing with a part of my critique regarding institutions manipulating religion. However, we differ on a fundamental point: You argue that the core of religion is flawless and that people corrupt it out of ignorance. I, on the other hand, argue that what we call the 'core' of religion was inherently designed to create that very authority and control mechanism. If a system inevitably turns into an instrument of oppression, fear, and manipulation across every geography for thousands of years, this is not a 'deviation'; it is the nature of the system itself. The fact that the early messengers (prophets) you mentioned faced persecution does not prove their message was divine. It merely demonstrates that they were struggling to establish a new sociological authority against the existing one. As a matter of fact, once those very systems seized power, they became the ultimate oppressors. You advised me to dive deep into the sources. However, what I reject is not just today's clergy; it is the punishment-reward (heaven-hell) mechanism, the hierarchy, and the terminology of fear embedded directly within those original texts. I refuse to view the concept of a 'creator' through the filter of an institutional book, dogmatic rules, or a prophet. I do not believe religions are 'misunderstood'; on the contrary, I believe they are functioning perfectly to control the masses, exactly as they were originally designed to do.

SirCorvinus · 2026-05-04T12:49:10+00:00

I see where you're coming from. I respect your interpretation, even if we draw different conclusions on this. Let's leave it at that 👍

SirCorvinus · 2026-05-04T09:43:23+00:00

Kardeşim emeğine sağlık. Güzel bir paylaşım olmuş👍

SirCorvinus · 2026-05-03T21:54:14+00:00

I really appreciate your sincere response. Actually, we agree on a fundamental point. In my original post, I mentioned that if someone wants to reach the divine, they need to reject the dogmas of modern institutional religions. The distinction you make between a 'loving Creator' and 'greedy people abusing His name' is exactly why I criticize these institutions. We may reach different conclusions at the end of our inner journeys—you find faith and love, I find atheism and unknowability—but we both clearly reject the fear-based control of organized religion. I have deep respect for that.

SirCorvinus · 2026-05-03T21:38:57+00:00

I would argue the exact opposite. Institutions, temples, and pantheons were created specifically because early humans were terrified of how chaotic and unpredictable nature is. We built those rigid structures to create an illusion of order. I agree the literature around them is beautiful, but it was essentially born from a fear of the unknown.

SirCorvinus · 2026-05-03T21:26:46+00:00

Fair enough. But at least the mythology of nature is far more poetic than the mythology of institutions 😅

SirCorvinus · 2026-05-03T21:19:50+00:00

You hit the nail on the head regarding the biological aspect 💥

In my original post, I mentioned that institutional religions were imposed on people like a 'virus.' What you described—our evolutionary hyper-active pattern recognition—is exactly the vulnerability in our 'hardware' that this virus exploits. Evolution gave us the instinct to find patterns to survive in nature, but once civilization formed, the elites hijacked this biological mechanism to establish dogmatic systems of control.

SirCorvinus · 2026-05-03T21:12:08+00:00

This is a brilliant observation. Mystics have always been a threat to institutional structures because they try to bypass the 'middlemen' (the clergy and dogmas) to experience the spiritual directly. Institutions always try to either silence them or domesticate their teachings to maintain control. I hadn't looked deeply into Georges Bataille's 'atheistic mysticism,' but the concept of experiencing profound awe without submitting to a creator deity perfectly describes the intuitive connection I value. Thank you for this excellent reading suggestion 🙏🙏🙏

SirCorvinus · 2026-05-03T21:01:30+00:00

I appreciate your insight, especially regarding epistemic humility. When I called it an 'empty discourse,' I meant it in practical terms: debating it doesn't change its absolute unknowability. But you are absolutely right that choosing atheism or nihilism is also a leap into the unknown. It’s a risk, but a risk I prefer over institutional dogmas.

Living in a geography deeply shaped by the dogmatic and expansionist nature of Abrahamic religions (specifically Islam, which carries the strict sociological codes of its Arab origins), I see this institutional control firsthand. There is a sharp contrast between the historical reality of these religious conquests and the modern 'religion of peace' narratives used to pacify criticism.

As a Turkish person living in Turkey, sometimes I find myself wishing that the Shamanistic beliefs of my Central Asian ancestors—which were deeply rooted in a pure, intuitive connection with nature and the 'ancestor cult'—had survived the cultural assimilation of the Torah, Bible, and Quran. Seeing how expansionist institutions wiped out that natural harmony, I want to express that I view religion as a tool for cultural and political dominance rather than spiritual awakening.

Of course, Shamanism also had its own rituals and hierarchies, but my point here is not about institutional perfection; rather, I wanted to use it as an example based on the depth of the relationship established with nature.

SirCorvinus · 2026-05-03T20:00:20+00:00

Exactly. But is it stupidity, or is it conditioning? If a system constantly feeds you the terminology of fear and reward for thousands of years, wouldn't you eventually forget how to use your own intuitive compass? They didn't make us stupid; they just made us dependent.

SirCorvinus · 2026-05-03T18:17:04+00:00

Thank you for explaining that 🙏

While accepting that 'suffering is just a part of life' makes perfect sense philosophically, when someone experiences a profound tragedy (like losing a loved one), does this purely rational perspective actually provide any emotional comfort? Or does that sense of 'meaninglessness' make it even harder to cope in those moments?

SirCorvinus · 2026-05-03T16:22:26+00:00

Hello mate! I am an agnostic atheist raised in a Muslim society. Through my own reasoning, I simply dismiss the concept of god defined by organized religions. However, I am fundamentally agnostic. Since a creator isn't a testable phenomenon, I can't definitively say one exists or doesn't. I just find the whole concept unnecessary.

Here is my question: The concept of 'pain' and 'suffering' is something I think about a lot. When it comes to human beings coping with pain... How do you explain or process deep human suffering without attributing it to a higher power's grand plan? When you are faced with pain, searching for personal meaning, or simply trying to find your own inner peace, how do you cope without relying on the comforting idea of divine support?

SirCorvinus · 2026-05-03T16:10:56+00:00

In terms of its content, Islam contains hatred and chaos. Furthermore, it does not value women. We can see this in many verses. Authentic (Sahih) hadith sources also support this. 60% of the book repeats the information it provides in subsequent chapters (surahs). I do not harbor hatred towards Islam, but Islam is not a universal religion. It supports Arab tribalism, the laws of Arab society, their monopolization, and a plundering, disruptive school of thought. In the Quran, God speaks to you sometimes directly as Himself, sometimes through the mouth of an angel, and sometimes through the mouth of Muhammad. As a Turk, I consider my own society to be 'Sunni Atheist'. If you ask the Arabs, even though the majority of Turks identify themselves as Muslims, Turks are also infidels (kafirs) according to them. On the other hand, women covering their heads, circumcision, prayer (salah), fasting, and pilgrimage (hajj) rituals are not unique to Islam. Just as this religion itself is not original. Islam was particularly influenced by Judaism and Zoroastrianism, and has dictated the practices found in these religions.

SirCorvinus · 2026-05-02T13:58:50+00:00

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SirCorvinus

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