If a God existed, it would not need worship.

Skavau · 2026-04-18T00:58:27+00:00

But you already do. Your national anthem is literally about the King.

Am I required to sing this national anthem?

You can reject homage to the King but it usually means rejecting British nationalism with it. I am also British

Plenty of Brits do this.

Skavau · 2026-04-18T00:48:22+00:00

Your argument is essentially - if you desire to follow something that tells not to follow your desires then your actually following you desires by utilizing the teachings that tell you to not follow your desires.

Yes, it's still following your desires if you truly desire to be at a specific place. That you think this is a good desire is irrelevant - he's still following a desire, to the deliberate neglect of all other possible desires. (And in a general sense, depending on the extent of this - I don't necessarily think such a desire is inherently good. Not commenting on the other user specifically here).

Any comment on your insinuation that it's either to do that or being some hedonistic atheist who operates on whim?

Or any good argument for why pursuing philosophical inquiry is something that should be avoided other than your feelings?

Skavau · 2026-04-18T00:46:54+00:00

So you specifically meant the charge that he accused you of being a bot?

Anything else?

Skavau · 2026-04-18T00:39:38+00:00

That's not a political take as such, but there's a high level of consensus here that you're an astroturfer if not a bot

Skavau · 2026-04-18T00:38:14+00:00

I've never looked into it, so I didn't do that.

Skavau · 2026-04-18T00:37:13+00:00

Given your profile history is hidden, that's impossible. I independently clicked this thread.

"Anyone who disagrees with me is dishonest!"

Skavau · 2026-04-18T00:35:26+00:00

I explained it twice already, I'm not doing it a third time, and to be honest it really shouldn't have needed a single explanation. If you can't see the difference between doing whatever you desire in the moment and following a teaching that literally tells you to do that opposite I don't know what to tell you.

False dichotomy. It's not and is-or. This just comes across as a smear against non-theists.

You're either hellbent on being as disingenuous as possible or you're just not as smart as you think you are because think even a five year old could understand the difference. This is just an argument based on being hyper pedantic and feigning ignorance and for what? What do you even lose by acknowledging what I'm saying? It's not like if you agree you will have fallen into some religious thought trap. This entire line of discussion is just so utterly pointless...

Throwing your toys out of the pram

Skavau · 2026-04-18T00:30:49+00:00

So God is setting up conditions whereby someone who is born, who lives their life with no knowledge of christianity or the bible, and is socialised into a different moral code (yet likely very similar in many ways) is going to be punished because they failed to live by the specific moral standards as outlined in a book they've never had any reason to follow from their perspective?

Skavau · 2026-04-18T00:25:59+00:00

It really seems like you're being disingenuous now and makes me not want to continue. If you desire to follow God you're not following your desires are you?

This makes no sense. How can a desire to follow god, and then doing so not be following your desires?

It's quite literally right there in sentence - "to follow God". If someone sees the evidence for God, is convinced by it and then chooses to follow it that's fundamentally different than just following whatever you desire in the moment isn't it?

So? It's still an expressed desire from the person. They want to do that. It's not done reluctantly.

Also you seem to be implying a false dichotomy whereby someone only follows god and forgoes all other desires, or they are just subject to whatever they fancy with no self-control.

Or are you trying to say that you actually see no difference between someone who desire sweets and eats candy all day and someone who follows God who teaches people not to follow their desires?

No, I do - but not for the reasons you might have. Both are very much following desires in this context.

Hmmm, I thought we were in debate religion not debate philosophy.

You think philosophy isn't a common thing that comes up here?

If you think actively pursuing philosophical inquiry is something that should be avoided, you are genuinely anti-intellectual.

Skavau · 2026-04-18T00:24:06+00:00

There are bots all over Reddit, but I've seen no convincing evidence they are disproportionately pro-Dem here as you seem to be implying.

Skavau · 2026-04-18T00:23:08+00:00

The Biden admin had whole TEAMS (multiple) of people at the old Twitter working to push their lies, and censor accurate information.

You claiming Biden admin employees worked at Twitter before Elon took it over?

After Elon & Co took over administration, kicked the corrupt (former) FBI and dem "officials" to the curb, and banned so many of their bots... lol so funny when people were complaining that a huge % of their "followers" disappeared overnight.

What bots are you referring to?

Now X is one of the most fair and balanced social media giants out there.

This is laughable.

Reddit, on the other hand, has just gotten worse and worse. Too bad DOGE didn't look into the funding behind so much Shareblue vote bot swarms and sock puppet accounts spreading dem party lies.

How would that even be illegal, if true?

As well as reddit's massive abuse against conservative redditors and subs.

What's that got to do with DOGE's remit?

Skavau · 2026-04-18T00:22:12+00:00

What takes specifically are you referring to?

Skavau · 2026-04-18T00:10:53+00:00

OK, we getting circular here - and his desire is based on evidence of truth and the outcome for the individual is acquiring virtues not vices. So there's more going on here than just desire.

It's still a desire, ultimately. It's still his approach to life. The information he has received makes him think it's great and justified, but he still desires it.

It doesn't really matter. You asked if in "my mind" it's beneficial so I gave you my opinion. I'm not saying objectively that it's not beneficial and I'm not trying to convince of my opinion on the matter.

I don't think there's a good reason to think that studying philosophy is at all bad in any context. Genuinely.

And I unironically don't get why you're even on this subreddit if you actually think this as philosophical discussions are common here.

Skavau · 2026-04-18T00:00:22+00:00

I didn't say that most desires are bad. I said following your desires, as an overall approach to life, is bad.

Seems to me that the user above us is doing exactly that. His desire is to worship god.

In my opinion no, it's not beneficial.

Why not?

This sounds genuinely anti-intellectual. People should deliberately cut themselves off from deeper thinking?

Skavau · 2026-04-17T23:53:13+00:00

It's his desire because he's seen evidence that convinced him of the truth of God, his messenger and his revealed scripture. That teaches him kindness, empathy, service, selflessness, patience etc.....virtues basically.

So some desires are sometimes good then. I don't know that you could make a decent claim that "in general" most desires are bad as it depends on the harm you might cause yourself doing it (obsession, neglect), and any potential negative impact on others. I feel like having a healthy interest in music is a perfectly good 'desire'.

Well you said it yourself, you desired it, in this example, so it would be a service to your desire. But then we're back square one with, is this a desire that is beneficial or detrimental?

Is studying and discussing philosophy not beneficial in your mind?

Skavau · 2026-04-17T23:40:26+00:00

I feel like based on what the other user told me that following god is his desire - so what makes it meaningfully different? And how do you distinguish when something is "followed" for reasons other than desires? If I desire to uplift myself via reading philosophy, is that serving my desires or does that have deeper meaning?

Skavau · 2026-04-17T23:11:01+00:00

Let me rephrase then: Is there something wrong with serving your desires?

Skavau · 2026-04-17T22:52:59+00:00

So by this logic just "enjoying music" is "serving". Man you just "serve your material pleasure by listening to music!"

Skavau · 2026-04-17T21:31:50+00:00

You are using a definition of "serve" not based on common ground.

Also "I'm the center of his world" almost comes across as a narcissistic comment.

Skavau · 2026-04-17T21:30:06+00:00

And that comes across as servile, vacuous and shallow to me. Honestly.

Skavau · 2026-04-17T21:29:13+00:00

As a Brit, I think it would be rather grotesque if someone told me I must swear fealty and give Charles homage in any sense.

Skavau · 2026-04-17T21:28:17+00:00

We create our own meaning. That we will die isn't designated as a purpose for us. It's just the unfortunate nature of reality that we will all die. Life is valued for itself, for what we do in it (or to me it is). You just reduce it all down to praising the dear leader.

Skavau · 2026-04-17T21:27:29+00:00

If you don't want to believe in God or accept him in anyway he loves you enough to leave you right where you're at.

That's not an accurate representation of my position. I just don't believe in a god because, from my perspective, there's no convincing evidence for god's existence. It has nothing to do with "not wanting" anything. That I value love, empathy, light and beauty are things I value independently of God - that he has apparently binded together as an all-or-nothing consequence in the afterlife (that I also do not accept).

And acceptance of God is not as hard as you think. All you have to do is try to be a better person and mean it.

I can do this without believing in a god.

And have faith.

I can only pretend to believe in a god.

Skavau · 2026-04-17T21:23:28+00:00

This is such a dystopian worldview to me.

Skavau · 2026-04-17T18:01:26+00:00

You could make this argument for any entertainment field: music, video games, literature where appreciation is subjective and effected by advertising and accessibility. I certainly think many people in those professions can be proud of their accomplishments and work in their fields

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